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WHAT HAVE THE WYOMING CARMEL AND SILVERSTREAM IN COMMON?

A narcissistic founder with a worrying homoerotic past.

Monks receiving spiritual direction in underwear.

Homosexual grooming.

Superiors crossing boundaries in visiting cells.

Financial concerns.

Dear Robert,

You are correct when you assert that you and I are worlds apart in many of our views.

But we can have Diversity within Unity.

I did not head off on my own to found the “Buckleyites” 😀.

I desired to remain a priest of Down and Connor and minister in its parishes, under the obedience of the bishop.

I was not ordained to be a desk priest or promotion.

My greatest desire would to have been a good Parish Priest.

Bishop Cahal Daly dismissed me from the Diocese and offered me England, the USA or Australia.

I begged him not to force me into an independent.

But he pushed and I became independent. I had no desire to minister outside the Roman Catholic Church.

For 36 years I have sought reconciliation with the RCC.

Sadly in that quest, no bishop, no priest and very few Catholic laity have been willing to talk to me.

The very term RECONCILIATION requires two sides to interact 🙂

Secondly, I had no plan to assume episcopal ministry.

I stayed as an independent priest for 12 years – 1986 to 1998.

In 1998 men and women were expressing the desire to join my in ministry.

I was consecrated a bishop by an archbishop and a bishop.

I do not claim to be a member of the RC hierarchy internationally.

I have been the senior presbyter and overseer (episcopus) at Larne for 36 years. Now that’s STABILITY.

As the senior presbyter and overseer of the Christians who meet in Larne I am their bishop.

This has New Testament underpinnings.

I did notice in your video and it may not have been intended, that you suggested discernment of 1.the Magisterium, 2. Canon Law, 3. The Catechism and the Scriptures.

Personally I put Number 4 Scripture as NUMBER ONE.

By the way I am not arguing with you or challenging you. I just expressing my perspective.

With prayers and warm wishes,

Your very new and highly unlikely friend 🙂

Pat

ROBERT NUGENT AND SILVERSTREAM

Robert has asked me to leave the situation in Silverstream in his hands and has promised to sort it within a week or so.

So that’s what I am doing.

I’m sure Robert will update us when he is able.

162 replies on “WHAT HAVE THE WYOMING CARMEL AND SILVERSTREAM IN COMMON?”

Pat well spoken. With all the rampant active homosexual hypocrites, new agers, and heretics in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and their penchant for liturgical abuse and abuse of the faithful, there’s going to be a lot more independent Catholic Churches.

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Definitely- the faithful are moving on as some clergy can’t resist the temptation to be abusive in various ways & some even hide behind their lay foot soldiers who do their dirty work for them.

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The worst are the ones that teach nice heresy like pied pipers with pleasant sweet words and smiles on their faces and empty heads, nice little empty readers digest stories for homilies and whatever beliefs you want. . . they’re going to get us sent to hell . . . It’s all so nice in the Church of nice, and with it’s nice hell that does not exist and such a nice pleasant Satan that does not exist.

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This is all very sweet. Pat, you must let your supporters know what you really think of Silverstream. Robert is changing your position and I feel he is influencing you for the better. Thank God Robert is, for now, effecting a change in your attitude. There can be and must be a new way of dealing with difficulties and challenges. You make damning assessments about Wyoming and Silverstream. You may be right. Is there a place for being a little kinder and merciful as Robert promotes?

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I believe there can be no Silverstream as long as Mark Kirby is there. He should leave permanently.

Silverstream will only survive if it becomes a proper Benedictine Priory.

It may very well be suppressed in the future.

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Apart from praying and walking about the countryside, they also have to do proper hard work. An online shop and a polytunnel in the garden doesn’t count as real work.

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11.00am. What proper hard work are you doing at 11.00am? Why is how the monks manage their time any of ypur business?

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So there should be no justice for the victims? Kirby has not even admitted he’s done anything, never mind repented of it, yet we’re supposed to move immediately to the forgiveness and reinstatement phase of Kirby? Let’s move onto the fantastic Priest that Mark Kirby will now be says Robert. lol. There was lots of big talk about getting justice for the victims of Thurles, big talk that has now suddenly disappeared, as now it’s Silverstream, it’s now all about treating the offender with kid gloves and to hell with the victims and justice?

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10.09: Your comments are interesting and I share your perspective. I am beginning to think now that Robert is very selective about justice. His promoting of Dom Kirby or perhaps his efforts at rehabilitating Kirby are at odds with his message of total renewal and change at every level in the Church. Thurles victims were given prominence but Silverstream victims are not receiving similar. Perhaps Robert has too much of an emotional and spiritual attachment to Dom Kirby! I accept the gospel imperative of mercy, love, tolerance and compassion but much wrong and harm has been carried out at Silverstream. We cannot minimise this by a softening with MERCY, as necessary as it is against all sinners and all who fall. I am a little confused by different emphases we are getting by Robert and Pat! Maybe there can be a different way of treating clerical sinners but this blog is renowned for its relentless pursuit of certain individuals and groups, often a sustained hounding in harshness. The Hound of Heaven by Francis Thompson is a great encouragement to trust in God in all situations of our broken, dark humanity. Thank you Robert for your perspectives even though they deserve challenging.

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RN originally in one of his videos claimed that Michael Deegan RIP was bullied in Thurles for being homosexual. It was all guns blazing then from RN. When it emerged from witnesses that Michael Deegan was not homosexual and was in fact bullied by a homosexual cabal in Thurles, the quest for justice there soon quietly dropped off the radar. Now for RN it’s all about forgiving and rehabilitating the reputation of the homo-cult abuser Mark Kirby, yet the man hasn’t even admitted his wrongdoing, repented or even asked for forgiveness, and his victims are still suffering the after effects. RN very inconsistent versions of justice and forgiveness seems to be based on the sexuality of the abuser/wrongdoer.

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They never ever admit anything & they certainly never repent but they do avenge anyone who reports them.

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I told Pat to be his own man. I just suggest a time to allow the wheels to move on this. If there is no movement I will escalate to contacts in Rome.

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Bishop Pat, reports of priest overseas having very ‘active’ nightlife emerging. Not hugely surprising one might add.
Any guesses from the boss? 😂😂😂

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10.17: The Mother Hen Bitch is back again…she with nothing to offer for anyone except broken shells…empty brain “sister”…

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Soon all the foreign priests will be flown in from Brazil to run our local parishes. Treanor will be in his element.

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The video about Wyoming Carmelites is very disturbing. Very frightening that any person can form a community of monks in so dysfunctional a manner, disguised as holiness and spirituality. This is sham, a complete vanity project for its founder. The abuse at every level is appalling and the trafficking of “boys” for sex and labour is morally reprehensible and sickening. There are many who are deceived by these charlatans and deceivers. They also have a way of getting funds to build their projects way beyond what’s necessary. These foundations should be immediately suppressed.

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The RCC is very disturbed & managed by some extremely disturbing individuals masquerading as so called members of respectable society.

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Jesus, leaning over the table, confronts God, “We’ve had all this Covid crisis to deal with. Where have YOU been?
“Aha says God, I’ve been to Ireland.”
“Ireland”, says Jesus! “While we’ve been trying to cope, …….what were you doing there?”
“Working from home” says God

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Pat I will always talk and have tea with you. Always. I love people who have different ideas to me and who can have a good conversation with me. Let the Christ present in each of us drive us forward towards unity. Faith aside on the human level, you are one of the finest Irishmen I’ve met. We need to correct failings in the Church with love, humility and radical authenticity. I know you love the faith. RN.

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6.33am: I’m wondering why you, Robert, have such need to reaffirm so frequently your new found regard for Pat? Your declarations are unnecessary: in fact they are a distraction from a thorough seeking for the truth of the issues being discussed: the very worrying concerns about the founders of both Silverstream and Wyoming Carmel. The information we have about both monasteries warrants the immediate reorganizing or suppression of both. Allegiance of any kind to the founders by any person, as you have to Dom Kirby, may obstruct fuller truth and justice. I desire for Silverstream to grow and flourish but not in its present existence. Dom Kirby must step aside and have nothing to do with formation of any kind. I always believe in mercy, forgiveness and helping people to find new life. For as long as Dom Kirby remains in any capacity, this monastery will remain problematic. We’ll pray for renewal, restoration and healing for all. Do I discern a change in Pat’s comments? I think Robert’s convictions may be having a new effect on Pat, which is fantastic. We never know who God sends across our pathways for the better!! Having watched Robert’s videos, I am very touched when he speaks heart to heart..Very encouraging. Thank you Robert.

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@10.08am The answer to your timely question is that Patsy loves his ego being stroked and is always in need of affirmation and attention. He will just love all that praise from Nugent

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Robert, I think yourself and Pat need to get a room at this stage, provided you’ve finished rooming with Kirby.

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Pat is your relationship with Ed ‘open’? Why are these type of relationships rife in the gay men community? Yet they fought so much for marriage equality – hypocrites the lot of you all

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I believe that RN and I love each other everyday and not just once a year.

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By Post Author

In one place in the NT it is written: “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
In another place it is written: “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.”
I have no qualms about people in a parallel ministry. Where ex-seminarians, ex-clergy or ex-nuns have been wronged by people in the RCC community, I would strongly encourage them to go the path of the parallel ministry.
I attended a Christian Unity service many years ago. The lady vicar spoke very well. It was a jolly good sermon.
Pax.

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3.23: Real shit, stomach churning waffle and pubescent nonsense. One of you will get very hurt trying to outdo each other in the Messiah stakes!!

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What’s even funnier is what a straight person is still doing in the Church? At least us Gays know it’s now run by Gay Clerics for the benefit of Gay Clerics. The upcoming synod will allow us to marry our boyfriends in the Church and open up at least deaconess to our LGBT+ sisters. Pax.

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Looks like Cardinal Hollerich the newly appointed head of the “Synod of Synodality” (and also President of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Union) is going to get that sorted :
“Cardinal Hollerich says church teaching on gays ‘no longer correct”
https://www.catholicnews.com/update-cardinal-hollerich-says-church-teaching-on-gays-no-longer-correct/
“The president of the Commission of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Union said he believes the current church teaching on homosexuality is wrong, not based in science.”
“What was condemned in the past was sodomy. At that time, it was thought that the whole child was contained in the sperm of the man, and that was simply transferred to homosexual men. But there is no homosexuality in the New Testament. There is only the mention of homosexual acts, which were partly pagan ritual acts. That was, of course, forbidden. I think it is time for a fundamental revision of the doctrine.”
If only we could get him to do away with hell, mortal sin etc. as well we’d be sorted.

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10:36 Cardinal Hollerich & the rest of them are just making it up as they go along to suit themselves now with their Synods & all that lark. It’s only about changing the rules to suit themselves, next thing they’ll bring in some Canon Law that says that child abuse was actually legal thus totally exonerating themselves from any liability going forward. It’s all about ducking & diving & bringing in their lay bedfellows to run church with them. If they actually published the names of the lay teams instead of hiding them you’d see for yourself some of whom the “celibate” clergy are actually sleeping with & doing business with in various Diocese.

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11:14 A lot of the hierarchy have been quietly pushing to legitimise ephebophilia as well, small steps first, chip away bit by bit, has been the successful strategy since the 60’s. As for the “Synod of Synodality”, apart from themselves, I wonder who do they think they are kidding at this stage?

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11.14: What an imagination you have! Bizarre comments. The stuff of Barbara Cartland novels.. Fiction..dreams gone bananas but undoubtedly it will give you a thrill.

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Brendan Marshall appears to be connected to many questionable situations. Would you agree Pat?
– Ronan Sheehan
– Maynooth Summer of Love
– Sean Hickey
– David Dysky
– Ryan McAleer
– Amy Martin

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Dear Bishop Pat, I feel you are falling under Robert’s influence and not for the better. Our resident cartoonist produced an excellent portrayal of Kitty Kirby on her throne, having one of her “Whoopsie moments” you have taken it down. Even the broadsheets have satirical cartoons like this – and it’s often the cartoons, more than words, which show how ridiculous a situation is. Please rethink your decision and reinstate it. I appreciate that it’s your blog, but I feel the blog is becoming too earnest and taking on a new direction favouring the RCC and its duplicitous priests and bishops.

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Thank you for your comments. I always really appreciate our resident artist’s very witty contributions.

Robert Nugent has absolutely no control or input on this blog and never will.

This week Robert is working hard on the Silverstream issue.

He is up against enough and I, and only I, have decided to somewhat restrained in publishing mocking cartoons.

You may not agree with this. But trust me when I tell you I am giving RN a bit of space with which to work.

I have kept copies if the cartoons.

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12.49: Personally I think Robert is assuming a task for which he is not suitable. His attachment to Dom Kirby and Oblates makes him biased against any criticism guven. He seems to desperately want the reunsrating of Dom Kirby. Why have you suddenly abrigated your responsubility to follow up on Dom Kirby and the monastery. Robert is converting you but he is all too melodramatic. He seems to have pushed you out. The Robert Way is dominating.

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Bishop Pat – are you seeking to regularise your position with the church? would you dissolve your civil partnership, and renounce your episcopal ordination, to return to the fold?

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RN is up against it for sure. I wish him every success.
+AC and +TD should apologise to +Pat. +AC was well warned over the Cistercians. +TD has been well warned about the goings on in the fledgling monastery.

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12:49
ROBERT NUGENT

RN now believes what happened to Fr Benedict, is shocked by the revelations and feels as a former supporters and oblate of Silverstream, he has a huge responsibility to address the problems and make restitution to Benedict.

I have not at all abrogated my responsibility on the matter.

Another man, with much more background on Silverstream says he will sort it.

I am giving RN the space he needs.

Nothing less. Nothing more.

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2.51: Pat, try as you may, there is still too much confusion about Robert’s connection with this monastery. His loyalty to Kirby renders him as totally unsuitable..You and he are making big decisions about the monastery. Do the Monks know about the latest developments? About other testimonies given and made public? That you have “handed” over the drama to him to sort out? Will the monks be happy to liaise with Robert in light of his denunciation of Dom Benedict?

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It’s like Brendan saying to the Tory party “we’ll sling your hook on the party and ditch the wine for good”

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If I hear radical authenticity one more time. Ffs

It sounds like a phrase that comes from some new-age spiritual manual that has appealed to Mr Nugent and he repeats it ad nauseam – Either you are authentic or you are not – radical authenticity is a redundant phrase.

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To me radical authenticity is having the courage and wisdom to be simply yourself at all times.

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Quote. “ Robert has asked me to leave the situation in Silverstream in his hands and has promised to sort it within a week or so.”.
Did he actually say that?
He’s amazing – last week we had the report into bully and harassment in Thurles. So is that all done and dusted.
Now he’s going to sort out Silverstream- I stand in awe of this man’s monumental hubris.

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I’m not a cynical man but Robert does not inspire confidence despite his confidence in his own ability to sort the church out.

What is also worrying is that he appears to switch horses in mid stream with a disconcerting ease. Not too long ago you were a heretic bishop and shame on you and your blog for attacking a priest. Now you’re his very good friend.

A few DAYS ago – Kirby was a great guy – and Robert decided he was withdrawing from the debate about Silverstream, presumably because he felt a loyalty to Kirby. A stance that didn’t make much sense in that, in his videos he was preparing to weed out the hypocrisy, bullying and harassment in the Church while , at that time, refusing to acknowledging his involvement in the harassment of Dom A.

Kirby then then became a man who’d done wrong but needed to be treated with compassion but he didn’t need to leave Silverstream- now the only way forward for Silverstream is that Kirby has to leave.

He gives the impression of shooting his mouth off without being in full possession of the facts.

Am I the only person who feels that Robert is inconsistent and perhaps dangerously so.

Between working -( I assume he has a full time job) – a family life – his continuing work on Thurles – his sorting out of the Silverstream scandal – and all those issue he’s going to tackle which he address in his Window into Hell video – I’m surprised he has anytime to pray or sleep.

I stand in awe of his unfailing conviction in his own,questionable, abilities.

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I’m glad you ate not cynical 🙂

RN says that has had a job for 21 years and it often involves international travel.

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1.51: Asmodeus. Hubris is the word. I wonder if any monk in Dom Kirby’s monastery is aware of Robert’s pronouncements and apologies on his videos? Considering all past harsh, critical and condemning publicity which Pat gave this monastery, it might be very difficult for the monks to now accept Robert’s affiliation with Pat and the agreement they have made to let Robert commit to fixing the monastery? Does Robert have a mandate to investigate the monastery? He castigated the Visitation made to the monastery and was profuse in his readiness to help Dom Kirby begin a 2nd Chapter of his life. As a Christian I believe in God’s mercy for all sins and failures. I wish Robert would speak this narrative about the clerics and prelates he is lecturing on his videos every day as “you guys..” I am finding the changung positions by Pat and Robert very extraordinary and disconcerting.

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Jesus came to comfort the disturbed and to disturb the comfortable 😴

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By Post Author

I’ve been pretty critical of Robert Nugent here, but I think we need to give RN a little bit of a break folks, yes he’s a bit all over the place, yes he’s not always logical, yes he makes mistakes, yes he’s irritating and imperfect at times like all of us can be, but I think he’s a big hearted person, who hates to see the Church in turmoil and feels driven to try and do something and puts his neck on the line publicly while many sit on the ditch scoffing and anonymously hurling stones. Let’s not start mob bullying this guy (or anyone else) online or offline, and cut him some slack.

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I’m really feeling the pinch, increasing rent, heating, electric and food bills and I’m really struggling to meet ends meet. I go to my mass every week and always give an envelope, but I can not from here on in and I feel bad about it. However; a fellow parishioner pointed out to me not to feel so bad as our priest holidays multiple times a year, drives a jaguar and dresses like a Next model. Maybe I should encourage my children to become priests and nuns?

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4.22: I’ve been critical too of Robert in recent times as I find his videos a little too melodramatic and full of shouting. He has questions to answer about his affiliation with Silverstream. He has questions to answer about Dom Kirby and the monastery and why he’s so urgent in seeking to reinstate him. I admire and value Robert’s commitment to the gospel values of mercy, love, tolerance and compassion. I admire his desire for a new Church, his knowledge of scripture and what seems a deep spirituality, rooted in the mystics, prayer and teachings of the Catholic faith and tradition. But on the issue of Silverstream, he seems to have very divided and confused loyalties. This blog allows robust exchange of comnents but I believe Pat should not allow the more personalised, vicious, nasty and hurtful narratives. They never serve the search for TRUTH and JUSTICE. Robert seems well capable of defending himself quite aggressively. But, in essence, I believe he is a good person in every way.

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There is a lot of food banks out there that can help with the food and contact the Citizens Advice on your mounting bills. I will pray for you.

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1.53pm: There are many families and individuals struggling greatly with huge price hikes. No person is ever obligated to contribute to church collections. It’s a free donation. I somehow think this is someone having a go at priests. I know of no priests in a wide circle of colleagues who have the “luxuries” your friend speaks of. It is so disingenuous to do such a lying broadsweep! Think you are a trouble maker. No one has to make a contribution. It is freely given and if you are so vexed, don’t give and inform yourself about the purpose if different collections. But don’t tell lies.

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1:53 no priest is going to be daft enough to drive a Jaguar – they are trying to bring people back, not drive them out, excuse the pun. I don’t think NEXT sell anything a priest would not draw the wrath of his Bishop for wearing going down the street. Let’s face it – none of them can dare be seen in a Dunnes with a clothes department since the days of Fr Ted. Whatever some of them are getting up to behind the scenes, they certainly are not being publicly antagonist as you have described. Please do not trivialise the more serious issues that concern us on here. If you are genuinely in need, your parish newsletter has details for your local SVP contact. Take care now.

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Sure Fr Bartlett drives a Maserati which is the price of of a mortgage in West Belfast

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3.09: Spot in Asmodeus. I wouldn’t be cynically inclined, but the change in interpretations, nuances, narratives, positions and approach by Robert is very revealing. He has abrogated to himsemf an “authority” with zeal to sort out so many issues. His loyalty still to Dom Kirby is questionable in light of what we know and what Pat printed in his blog for some time. Robert has a vested interest in Silverstream and therefore is not the one to carry out further investigations. Have the monks accepted what he intends to do?

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Dear Fr. Pat,
While we see quite differently on many things, this whole Silverstream situation needs to be sorted out and D. Benedict needs justice.
Shortly after their arrival in Ireland, a man called Thomas Murphy (known to the Irish TLM world) told me that a relative of his had been working on renovations at SP and seen some questionable things between the founder and the victim. Perhaps you could reach out to him for a clarification on what his relative saw?

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I was in M&S yesterday and bought one bag of shopping and it came to £34.78! Boris had better do something about this rising costs we all aren’t millionaires

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Awk why must you rub it in to that poor girls wounds that you can afford to shop in Marksies, that’s a wicked comment

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When I get my groceries delivered by Sainsbury’s or Tesco, I am shocked at how little there is delivered, despite spending £80-90. The cost of living is shocking now.

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3.40: What relevance has this quote to anything? Pat, you have fallen under the spell of Robert. Undoubtedly. Robert has a vested interest in Silverstream. Were a priest to be so merciful as Robert is, you’d slam him into the ground!! I agree with having MERCY. Why are you treating Robert so differently? I and other commenters have spoken about mercy, forgiveness and compassion but we were referred to as co-abusers. If you have changed your mind set, I am delighted.

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5.11: Every interesting question but Pat probably won’t try as ling as he is enthralled by Robert. Would be only fair if Pat honestly answered your question. TRUTH matters we are constantly told.

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D&C is heading for utter crisis. A few priests are palliative, there is a lack of options available, 3 are planning to leave for individual reasons and a reluctance to transfer to other parishes by the selfish stuck in a rut/have it too easy priests. Time for Eugene OHagan to sing his way into parish life and for lazy Gerard Fox to step it up.

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Some of the soon to be closed up Churches will make fine nightclubs and gay bars when they sell them off. The victory of dancing, drinking and “fornicating” in them will be sweet.

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@2.36pm You seem to be talking lots about gay sex on your afternoon smutty posts. Have you a one track warped mind? Get out more and address the sexual issues clearly going on in your own life. Dirty pervert fantasist.

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Oh, don’t worry, there are lots of Nigerian, Indian, Filipino and other developing nation priests who would love to live, work and minister in NI. We just need to import them. They’ be so grateful for the opportunity. NI can become its own mission territory. Or we can have a long hard look at what priesthood really means and make sure it works for us. I suspect the former will be the preferred option, however. The latter is too much hard work for the bishops and priests to think about.

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2:52pm Well Said – Ireland’s always had an outstanding reputation for exporting anything that’s too hot to handle. One tradition worth retaining – some of our very large & angry parish priests will burst if they’re not put on a diet of peas & rice very soon. It will be nice to have fresh global perspectives from the developing nations in our parishes nationwide.

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They also tend to be more conservative, which will shake parishoners out of their comfort zones.

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Dear Bishop Pat, hope you are keeping well.
For one of your next blogs ( or perhaps break it into a few blogs if that’s easier for you ), could we perhaps have a quick roundup/summary of what’s happening/main issues diocese by diocese. I’m feeling out of touch with what’s currently going on across the country! and I’m sure many feel the same.

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Pat, remember all the single guys today (including the ordained) who are bombarded with love hearts in every shop and feel lonely. Today can be a hard day for some. Keep us in ur thoughts.

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February 17 -19 Symposium on a Fundamental Theology of Priesthood in Rome……here’s an interesting take on what might be considered by the assembled bishops by Vincent Doyle in The Tablet: https://www.thetablet.co.uk/blogs/1/1989/celibacy-and-the-reality-of-the-way-it-is-lived- It sounds to me as though his take is right. They should be looking at the way celibacy is actually lived, authentically and inauthentically, as we know it is, perhaps more so in the latter and the breach than in the keeping. Then they might be able to understand how celibacy is and what it means to the Church. Like Doyle, I’m not confident that they will. They will just rehash and take refuge and comfort in the traditional understanding and theology of priesthood and celibacy, even though the facts looking them in the face – mostly desperate failures and inauthenticity – would suggest that not all is well with the current status quo. As he says, let’s hope there is a bishop or two who will stand up and tell the reality, the facts, the truth about the way celibacy is lived in the Church – or rather not lived !

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My wife just phoned me to say that three girls in her office have received flowers and they are absolutely gorgeous.
I said, “Thats probably why.”

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Nothing wrong with Homos or Lezzers. Leave us in peace- we just want to live our lives and love and we are not doing you any harm. Me and my Roberta wouldn’t;t harm a fly. Happy Valentine’s Day to Pat and Eduardo xxx

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Nothing wrong with homos, heteros or bis; but the ones taking over the blog are the trolls 😂

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I would love to experience sex just once before I die and that urge gets stronger with age and closer to my retirement.

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Pat I trust you are enjoying a well deserved holiday with your loved one. Stay safe old friend and top up that tan x

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I work in a restaurant and everyone is always so angry and aggressive, even when you just ask them what they would like to drink it’s like “would ya give me a minute for gods sake” or they have only ordered and are asking “how long is this going to be” people have no patience

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It’s in all walks of life tho Indi, people are angry for a lot of varying factors. The day I tripped up on the aisle on my way to get communion the priest started guldering to stop ‘messing’ about during mass when it was a simple accident I was furious with him

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I dropped a candle in the church once and the priest yelled at me until he realised I had Parkinson’s and he was mortified

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I tried to light a candle and the priest started yelling at me because I didn’t put any money in. You think he’d have more to worry about in this day and age xx

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4:47 – you do not have to look. They not doing any harm – they entitled to go jogging in sports wear if they want – you’d be giving out if they jogging in dufflecoats. Live & let live. Others doing much worse I’m sure.

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They must be jogging away their hangovers and Easter egg eating i personally don’t know of any priest that actually keeps fit it must be the unhealthiest and unhappiest of jobs

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7:37pm. You seem to spend the whole day here, thinking up new ways to insult and denigrate priests. I wonder who is truly the unhappy one.

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You diminish your strong case +Pat by relying on the self loathing gays and maniacs (Mrs Niles posting at all hours about Mike Parrot) of ‘Church Militant,’ who are not even allowed by the archdiocese of Detroit to call themselves Catholic. CM have a record of grooming unwell or distressed people like Jasssy Jacas (used as a mouthpiece for made-up things about the SSPX) or Ben Carter’s daughter (used to make a false claim that Ben posted inappropriate material on his FB). A gay former SSPX priest turned tattoo artist (see the Judas Project on Youtube) found them to be unsettling and inappropriate people who wanted him only for any potential dirt on the SSPX. Another gay man and former SSPX seminarian found similar, while having only praise for Bp Fellay and other SSPX authorities.
Even the claims made by the monastery hopping would be monk Augustine in the vid were distorted. A rude poke with a trowel by a supervisor becomes a near lethal assault, and this supervisor was later removed from work projects. Another novice Nick thought Augustine rather soft, with an unreal ideal of monastic life, having time to write a vast dossier, despite his alleged enslavement.
CM have a contempt for rules of evidence (Mrs Niles blamed all abuse cases in Kansas on the SSPX for instance), regarding only as a means to their end of attacking the SSPX or whichever target is selected for them by their patrons. It has to be notable that Michael Voris is even more shrill in claiming his Detroit gay district studio, in Ferndale, was the fruit of solely his money, despite it being a matter of record that Marc Brammer, investor and Opus Dei Supernumerary is on record as the provider of seed capital. Later Terry Carroll provided his pension savings of $200k to CM (the real source might be otherwise). CM are basically a cult of wound up ‘ex gays.’ It could be the case that Silverstream are the same, and thereby beyond saving.
Basically +Pat, I would be wary of using anything CM publish. Look on their site (https://www.churchmilitant.com/) for the worst boomer headbanger stuff. Rely on your own evidence, most of all.

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8.22: Yes; he had hardly unpacked his case…seemed he didnt like hard work and thought he would be in prayer all day, all night…The farm work and manual labour frightened him. The CM group are viciously anti Roman Catholic. Voris and his sycophants would have priests wrapped in dark clothes all day, with biretras, robes, high collars etc….even sleep in them. He’s the most intolerant Christian on networks.

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8.33pm. I can relate to the point about work. I know a few monks and they tell me that many would-be postulants have quite a dreamy, unrealistic notion of what monastic life would be like and either want to meditate all day, or imagine that it is like being a permanent retreatant, in which you sit in your room reading, go for walks and pop down to the ref and chapel at various points in the day, but with no notion as to how the place sustains and funds itself, quite apart from the value of work in and of itself.

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ONE MILLION PEOPLE WANTED, TO PRAY THE OUR FATHER FOR PEACE IN UKRAINE.
for those who don’t know it
Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, from the evil of war. Amen. PAX

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I apologize for mentioning today’s blog subject but the answer to the question is:
1. They’re both pretend at some level.
2. Sexual harassment.
3. They both extort large donations from the faithful who naively think the Latin crowd are any different from the rest of the church.
If your religion leaves a trail of trauma and crime everywhere it’s a criminal organization, not a religion.

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Pat, this is a serious question and I hope that people don’t attack me with jibes and sarky comments.

I have long felt a vocation to be a liturgical/Massing priest, like the chantry priests of old, or hermits, in which I feel the call to be ordained and offer the TLM privately, in my own home, quietly for my own sanctification and for all the living and for the souls in purgatory, with no public ministry at all.

That is probably far from your and most people’s understanding of priesthood, but it has a long history in the Church. Would the Oratory be able to accommodate someone like me?

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I wish Robert well in his efforts at Silverstream. His generous and forgiving nature, together with his focus on reconciliation, will go a long way. Being a known and trusted friend of the priory will also help. What’s needed now is time and space, and Pat is offering that, though I suspect it might take a bit longer than a week.

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8.47: From the very beginning of the Silverstream expose on this blog, Pat has been relentless in his judgment about the need for this monastery to be suppressed and for Dom Kirby to be replaced, sent to a cell in another monastery or to be returned to the USA. Pat wrote many letters to various entities about Dom Kirby and Silverstream. Rightly so. The blog was full of some very vicious, nasty and destructive narratives, with sexualized commentary directed in an ugly way against Kirby and the monks. This was horrendous. I and others often berated Pat and his commenters for such vulgarity, ugliness and humiliation but to no avail. The threads of merciless judgments flowed freely. Some criticisms were legitimate. Now, we have a different tone in analysis since Robert is involved. Brilliant for Robert if he can effect necessary changes in Silverstream. Can you, Pat, truthfully give your own position about Dom Kirby and The monastery at this juncture? Or is Robert’s approach and attitude the template both for you and all the nasty trolls over the last year? I appreciate Roberts way. I appreciate your concerns, albeit in a different expression.

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My position? Kirby must leave Silverstream permanently.

Then we have to see if Silverstream can be saved or suppressed.

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I back Pat’s post. Nobody is asking tor Silverstream to be closed. But we need transparency. You can’t have transparency with Dom Mark living in the community.

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I have watched a video posted by Robert – Let the Christ in me speak to the Christ in Thee: It’s basically an apologia for Pat. He quotes Pat which is fine but the conversion of Robert to Pat in a short space of time is miraculous!! But also very sentimental. Robert, your calling for a renewed Church in every way is one many of us share. Priests in parishes are trying to be as pastorally committed to creating good, kind, caring and Christian parishes. I hope you go out of your way to acknowledge them and support them instead of forever berating them under your ” you guys, we’re coming after you” banner. There are exceptional priests in our community who are faithful to their ministry and mission, carried out against the background of shortage of Priests, an often apathetic and indifferent response to various initiatives, lack of volunteering and growing secularism. I wish you would express a voice of encouragement to them and to the many “lay” people who are generous in their care for their parish. The vision you offer may not be another person’s vision. We adapt to our local community in its particular needs. Your focus on Pat so frequently is rather interesting. Are you trying to convert him? But, I would ask you to at least affirm the many wonderful things happening in parishes among priests and parishioners. You leave us feeling useless and disconsolate at times, sadly.

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To whoever wrote this post. I 100% agree with you. Regards Robert Nugent. Please email me at ranugent@icloud.com so I do better to do what you are saying. I love my faith, I don’t want to harm anyone. So help me to form myself better.

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9.52: Robert: thank you. We nay have more in unity of mind and heart than my comment suggests. I have affirmed your goodness of intention, prayerfulness, spiritual insights and your mission to help men in their spiritual journey before, all of which inspires me. But I find some of your content re: Silverstream and ministry very discordant at times. Nothing that a good conversation can’t undo! thank you for your email.

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I’m an Ulster Catholic that believes the KJV is the best English translation of the Bible. The English is superb. Shakespearian honey. Made to be read out loud. It comes into it’s own then. Every plantation brings a silver lining. God Bless you all, I hope we all somehow make to heaven and avoid the other place.

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10:27 – The trolls are getting more desperate and running out of words Pat, you have them on the run.

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No, he means Hell, to where many who comment here are going to go, unless they get their act together.

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9:32 pm,
I always thought the KJV had a Calvinist tinge to it but the other day I saw on the FB Breviary site that there is a Catholic edition of the KJV in two volumes. I believe it’s associated with the Ordinariate.

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I could be wrong, but I believe the KJV is more Anglican in outlook than Calvinist as the COE under the King had a big say in it’s composition in 1611. Yes, the recent Ordinate edition, only difference to it as far as I know is that it contains the deuterocanonical books ( or apocrypha as Protestants refer to them) that have been left out of more recent KJV, it also puts the books in the traditional Catholic order. Other than that I don’t think they’ve changed any wording as such. Compared to many modern English translations today (including so called Catholic ones), I don’t believe the KJV is that anti-Catholic if at all, and the literally quality is without compare.

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At one time the Anglicans were attracted to Calvinism which is said to account for the destruction of churches. I suspect that the problem for Catholics was the footnotes more than the actual translation.

No argument from me about the beauty of the KJV, I’ve used it since 1970 along with the Vulgate. Saintsbury in his work “English Prosody” offers an appreciation of both since the KJV appropriates the cadences of the Vulgate so beautifully; but excoriates the Revised in no uncertain terms.

Enjoy!

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