ROBERT NUGENT’S EXPERIENCE OF ASH WEDNESDAY IN MEXICO.
PAT SAYS
I was very struck by Roberts video of his Ash Wednesday experience in Mexico.
He reflects on:
1. Older church buildings versus newer church buildings
2. The absence of priests at Ash Wednesday ceremony of ashes.
BUILDINGS
I think I too prefer older church buildings to newer ones.
I feel more of a sense of sacredness in the old buildings.
And I feel I pray better in the older buildings.
There are some newer church buildings that do convey a sense of sacredness and in which I can pray.
One of those newer buildings is quite near to me in Carnlough on the Antrim coast above Larne.
Another is St Aengus’ at Burt in Donegal.
THE TIN CHURCH I ATTENDED AS A CHILD AND IN WHICH I CELEBRATED MY FIRST MASS AND DID MY DAD’S FUNERAL.
The Tin Church on the left is the one I attended. I always found it peaceful and prayerful.
THE ABSENCE OF PRIESTS ON ASH WEDNESDAY
Robert describes his visit to the modern Jesuit Church at Polanco with ashes left on tables to serve yourself.
Jesuits live in communities of 3 plus.
I cannot not understand why a priest was not available to distribute Blessed ashes on an important day of the Church calender.
Is it carelessness? It it laziness?
The Polanco Jesuits do a lot of community work but they are priests first and social workers second.
I think many priests these days are neglecting their primary duties.
In the second church Robert went to there were 4 Augustinian priests standing around chatting while lay people distributed ashes.
A FEW QUOTES FROM FORMER RETREAT MASTERS:
“He went out to do GOOD and he did WELL”.
“He worked so hard for God that he forgot the God for whom he worked”.
“You think it a miracle when God does what the priests ask. I think it’s a far greater miracle when the priests do what God asks”.
“There was a time in Ireland when the priests were made of gold and the chalices were made of wood. Nowadays the chalices are made of gold and the priests are made of wood”.
BISHOP PAT BUCKLEY 
132 replies on “WHERE HAVE ALL THE PRIESTS GONE?”
Certainly your question raises many questions Pat. Some have retired. Some have come to the end of their earthly life. Others are desk priests, businessmen; they don’t have time for the sick or dying.
Then we have other priests who are on sabbatical, on leave, or attempting postgraduate studies for whatever reasons.
We are seeing the responsibility of nitty-gritty Catholicism being handed to Permanent Deacons. One priest told me the church is taking a step by step approach to allowed married priests, and deacons is that first step. Transubstantiation is a while away, but we are in a new era.
Just look at the crop of priests under 40 right now Pat. Could you pick a decent bishop from amongst them?
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You sound like a disgruntled priest or a wanabee priest. You stick out like an old pollock passed off as cod.
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12:29am You sound very disgruntled yourself, Father Cod. You must have dropped your calculator.
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And you, 12.29, sound like a disgruntled something-under-40 priest with the talent and charisma of a stale communion wafer.
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Seamus@9:05. Aha. I get it. You just seem “unable” to understand the distinction between respecting the individual and his right to hold personal beliefs, while questioning those beliefs which you appear to see as disrespect.
Just no point in further discussing such inability.
MMM
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MMM 11:00, in my comment you reference from 9:05, I said “You can question religious belief all you want.” How have you twisted that into “while questioning those beliefs which you appear to see as disrespect.”?
The fair point was made that you are a confirmed atheist. There reaches a point where a confirmed Christian cannot be talking about this with you forever.
Many months ago I was asking you had you or would you read the book about 7 reasons to believe in the afterlife. I wasn’t going to be asking you forever.
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Anon @ 11:32, your passing reference to transubstantiation causes me to wonder if this might refer to some potential future RCC acknowledgement that the whole doctrine of transubstantiation, as has been traditionally presented, has been “reconsidered” and henceforth should be regarded as “representational.”
Really the whole concept of transubstantiation is so outlandishly ridiculous as to merit incredulity. But consider its corollary: ie. the ontologically endowed exclusive power of the priestly caste to “transubstantiate.” (Howsoever you choose to understand that ” power” quite irrespective of the character of the cleric, be he meritorious or a paedophile abuser)
It maintains the ontologically separate priestly caste in the central position of power, prestige and privilege.
Frankly you couldn’t even begin to dream up such ridiculous beliefs, ……and expect intelligent people to believe them.
MMM
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MMM, Transubstantiation was an attempt by philosophy to explain what to Christians is a mystery.
Protestants believe that Christ is represented in the Eucharist.
We Catholics believe that Christ is really present in the Eucharist.
If God is indeed God, then he is capable of turning bread and wine into the body and blood of his son.
As this is a matter of faith and not of proof, science has nothing to bring to the Table.
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MMM @ 12.30am: Educate yourself around the concept of in persona Christi – on a 1-10 scale, how ridiculous are those claims?
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12:15 I’m not MMM but the answer to your question is 12.
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Aha +Pat: that old chestnut of “FAITH”! Blind wishful thinking based on nothing more than psychological and emotional indoctrination. The big “Mystery.”
Your words, “If God is indeed God…..” “IF” !!!!!
How significant is that?
MMM
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I was indoctrinated. But I’m not now. I’m not part of the system. I can go anywhere I want.
I’m sure you can respect my beliefs as I do not seek to impose them on anyone else.
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+Pat. I respect you in person , ….too much in fact to in any way respect such beliefs just because you hold them.
Religious beliefs per se are not deserving of any respect, just because they’re “religious”, and especially when one sees the maloevalent outcome of such beliefs.
MMM
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Jolly well said MMM at 2.15 & 4.21.
Religion panders to the insecurities in people by offering jam tomorrow if only its stooges keep faith in priestly castes. It has to be in priestly castes, because religion cannot point to a single, credible piece of evidence that the figure called God has any existence outside of theological concepts.
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“God is dead” – Nietche
Nietche is dead” – God.
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5.56, Alfred Tennyson, in Maud, 1855, wrote: “The churches have killed their Christ”.
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MMM 4:21, I am respectful of your atheist belief though I know you are not correct.
It is quite reasonable for someone to say you can be respectful of their beliefs though you might not agree with their belief.
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When did ‘God’ say that, Pat?
Another invention by religionists, like ‘God’ himself.
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Seamus@ 8.03: you refer to my “atheist belief”. Maybe you haven’t read my previous comments, or fail to understand them.
I have no “atheist belief ” if you, like many, understand it as a claim on my part, that there is no God, or gods.
As an atheist, I take the position of questioning God centered beliefs, saying to believers, “Don’t expect me to accept YOUR faith beliefs just ‘cos YOU believe them. Show me the evidence and validity for your beliefs”
And as yet, I see insufficient evidence, so I continue to question the religious beliefs of a faith/Church which demonstrably evidences so much malignancy.
MMM
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12.30 MMM, your post makes me think of that 1973 tv film, Catholics, starring Trevor Howard and Martin Sheen.
Basically, the story centres on the reversal of Vatican teaching on Transubstantiation, henceforth considered a load of shite. The new teaching is that the bread and wine, after consecration, remains precisely that, bread and wine, merely representational of Christ.😅
A group of Irish traditionalist, though now heretical, friars or monks, holed up on a remote island in the Atlantic, and headed by Howard, have to be cowed into submission by Vatican emissary and priest, Martin Sheen.
A presaging of the future for Roman Catholicism? Factor in child rape and its concealment by cowardly Catholic priests, and you have your answer.😅
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MMM 10:21, I do not expect you to accept my faith belief. You can question religious belief all you want. It is no excuse or reason however to be disrespectful of someone’s belief.
We live in an age where theists are comfortable and accepting of the doubt of atheists. Some atheists however are not just content to get on with their own lives. They are disrespectful of those who disagree with them.
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Seamus 8.03. “You KNOW …..that mourneman is incorrect”!!!!!!
The arrogance of such statement is typical of bible thumpers who KNOW the truth: ‘cos their personal private hotline to God tells them so!
And their “thumping the bible” is seen as a God given mission to convert unbelievers, because they’re RIGHT, and KNOW it!
“O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us
to see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us, An foolish notion:
What airs in dress an’ gait wad lea’e us, An ev’n devotion!
R. Burns: “To a louse”
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KK 12:34, there was no arrogance on my behalf. It’s not unusual of people to know of the afterlife. For people to sceptical of that is completely understandable.
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@11.32pm You raise the thorny issue of permanent (little hitler) deacons. D&C parishes will rue the day because its Ordinary raised a multitude of them to fill its ranks recently!! Watch out not for said permanent deacons but their wives dear ones.
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8:36pm Spot on Cecily. Whilst many would still respect and support the remaining ordained clergy who have done no wrong, once they are gone, there is absolutely no way anyone is going to subscribe to the local self important little hitlers and their wives who are attracted to these roles in Church.
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Unusual to meet a priest called Cecily. Is that your name on Grindr as well, ‘father’?
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2.17: Pat, you are indoctrinated because you use the Roman Catholic beliefs in the Sacraments, particularly the Eucharist, whuch you can inky understand by the concept of transubstantiation. Yiu cannot philosophise this concept out of its true meaning. Yiu assert that yij are nit oart if “the system”. True. However you have cteated your own system: the Oratory. You have to have some discipline of beliefs, theology, spirituality and integrity of purpose. You use the title of Bishop at all times. That’s very Catholic, hierarchical and clericalist. Yiu also asdert that you do not impose your beliefs in anyone. Isn’t that very disingenuous? You use your blog to assert, impose and affirm vehemently all your beliefs and views. And, with respect, while I couldn’t care less about the Oratory, your imposing of your views/beliefs and teachings are bery conducive to creating much turmoil, hurt and nastiness against many, many people. Sometimes we are unaware of how we intentionally or unintentionally “impose” our way on others but use the word readily about our ‘enemy.’ And the enemy is always wrong!!
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We’re not the brightest button on the shirt here.
Transubstantation is not of Scripture but of Tradition.
Bishops are found in the Anglican, Episcopal, US Methodist, Orthodox and Roman churches.
My blog is simply my views and opinions and no one is forced on here.
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Plus the real presence isn’t limited to the idea of transubstantiation. There are other positions than transubstantiation and the Protestant memorial meal.
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5.54 is it really? Entirely of tradition?
What of Jesus’s words, this is my body, etc?
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Jesus didn’t say: “This is my transubstantiation” ?
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8.59, who said he did?
To claim that the RC dogma, Transubstantiation, is unrelated to Scripture, in particular to Jesus’s words at the Last Supper, simply is not true.
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10.16, 10.42, 2.37: real presence is taken to depend on communion with the Vatican City and organisational sacraments. But communion is as communion does, that is why there is real absence now. Mourneman confused Bp Pat and Seamus with his (Mourneman’s) sometimes inconsistent rhetoric. Bp Pat pretends to ape the Romans so that he can defeat them on their own ground in cases like the Purcell case. I think Mourneman is at heart an anti-Roman atheistic agnostic. Robert N. is just a priest worshipper.
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9.09 “This is My Body” means to trust the strength of Another Comforter in others, not to betray them. Reifying what Jesus said always was false before that.
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@11:32pm
If your step by step approach is you future it;s not mine or many others. If they try to change transubstantiation it will not be acceptable to Catholics as it is central to our belief. Blessed be Jesus in The Most Holy Sacrament of The Altar. Get rid of all these useless deacons and send us many holy priests.
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This year’s ashes get transubstantiated into what – last year’s ashes? 🤨 🧐 😏 😒 😕
But why would basilicar “staff” make any comment about confessions – to a Legionary?
I knew a very holy church building, quite newly built, near where I live but it got demolished not long after as it had been badly built – very sad.
(I’ve known some nasty, and some fine, church buildings of all vintages.)
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Transubstation didn’t figure in the first Christian millennium. As Pat says, it’s Greek philosophy’s attempt to explain HOW the bread and wine become our Lord’s body and blood. It’s therefore not a matter of WHETHER the elements are his body and blood but of HOW this happens. Christians believe the elements are transformed. Thank God we don’t have to subscribe to how this happens.
Et si sensus deficit
Ad firmandum cor sincerum
Sola fides sufficit.
(St Thomas Aquinas, Pange lingua.)
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Also at the Basílica of Guadalupe there have been no confessions in two years (according to the staff). It seems it’s ok to eat in restaurants in Mexico, but not go to confession.
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What staff? You mean auld dols gsssing? Get a grip you eejit
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12:32AM be more respectful of your Volunteers, Fr Two Faced.
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That is sad. The mainstream diocesan and regular churches in Mexico seem to want to drive away the faithful. Old churches, even basic ones, seem to have something numinous in them whereas the suburban wigwams are just buildings. One thing of note, although I might have missed it is that sedevacantism has a presence in Mexico. The Thuc line bishop Moisés Carmona and his Unión Católica Trento has a few chapels. Sedevacantism is a bit of a dead end. For instance the SSPV, a notable sedevacant or sedeprivationist society, rejects Thuc line bishops on the basis that +Thuc was not a well man. The Palmarians originate from his consecrations and some occult groups. The refounded CMRI are the biggest Thuc line body. Anyhow back to Mexico, it is notable that only really in the US and Mexico did sedevacantism take root. France obviously has the SSPX and SSPX originated priestly bodies. It has sedes, but very few.
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The high number of sedevacantist in the US originates from a conflict between Lefebvre and a number of priests who had been in the SSPX in the eighties, which started off about liturgy, his negotiations with JP2 and orders but exploded quickly. Lefebvre would have been better leaving them alone but his changing ideas about church ownership meant property was all over the place and he made the mistake of suing this group of priests multiple times to try to get church property in his control instead of theirs.
They gained the support of their congregations with the results we see today.
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I know about the case of the nine. An ailing +Marcel Lefebvre was dragged to the US for a court case which resulted in a win for the dissidents, which included Fr Jenkins, now of SSPV, and Fr Cekada RIP. Sometimes property is a matter priests have to leave in peace. Another issue was that +Lefebvre originally used the post V2 transitional missal (1966 or 1967 I suppose) in the seminary, which combined tradition and fidelity to the Pope. Later he settled on the 1962 missal as a better iteration, but many priests disliked this, for instance the mid 50s Holy Week reforms were very controversial. That’s I suppose an instance where things probably should have been left alone.
Somewhat related, this Protestant idea of lay trusts is a very good thing. For instance Cobh cathedral belongs to a lay trust, which saved from treatment similar to what the disgraced Bp Casey inflicted on Killarney cathedral, which saw all the Pugin interior scraped out, with marble work tossed in the skip. The original contractor refused to do the work so a Kerry firm did it.
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Dragged? He brought the lawsuits! Any brought by the nine were in response to Lefebvre initiating legal action.
I do have sympathy for him because even though as a missionary bishop he was probably the best equipped to face the completely unknown, he can’t possibly have been able to think out all the repercussions of every decision.
I’m not sure how history will see him either – I suspect ironically he may end up being historically lumped with people like Pat as part of the independent episcopacy movement!
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Well, we were both excommunicated from the Roman Empire Mk II
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Fr Jenkins is adamant that +Lefebvre changed, not the nine, but perhaps they should have accepted things they didn’t like for the sake of the movement. However, the courts took their side, so like you say, perhaps the Abp erred a bit.
The SSPX are a larger scale than any other traditionalist body with countless chapels worldwide, most notably France, the huge St Thomas Aquinas seminary, the new Immaculata church in St Mary’s Kansas, which is basically an SSPX town, well most go its chapels and schools there, which sums to 103 chapels in the US . There are 109 in France, and relevantly to Robert, twenty in Mexico. Sedes (CMRI and SSPV for example), independent priests (who are not always sede, like +Pat), Old Catholics are on a much smaller scale. On a middling scale are some independent Catholic movements in Brazil (Duarte Costa) and Poland (Polish National Church, Mariavites), which went somewhat V2-ward before V2.
I note that Fr Pagliarani, the SSPX SG, met with Pope Francis very recently, and both knew each other as Fr Pagliarani was rector of the SSPX Buenos Aires seminary while Francis was plain Abp Bergoglio. Ironically, as Robert Nugent mentions, PF gave them faculties and regularisation was rumoured a few years ago. I really cannot work how history will see +Lefebvre. Too early, as the Chinese might say. +Lefebvre wanted regularisation even if PVI or JP2 might say or do things he disliked. Whether that happens is key. If it doesn’t. If it doesn’t it’ll be a bit like the Duarte Costa movement in Brazil, on a bigger scale, which has amicable relations with Rome, but will never be in Communion.
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Pat, some people in our Church did not want to receive a blessing with ashes but preferred to take a small bag of blessed ashes home with them. Lots of people are still nervous abiut covid and must be respected. We left out 600 bags but the majority of those who came to mass were happy with priests blessing them. Having watched many of Robert’s videos, including this one, I think he has one view only about the expression and living of the Catholic faith which does not resonate with most church going Catholics. I think it’s unfortunate that he finds the necessity to constantly makes references about what be sees as “inauthentic” priests. Interestingly Pat, Robert, I surmise wouldn’t have much to do with your style of Catholicism!! To be honest, when I saw the rather enlarged cross of ashes on his forehead, it immediately put me off….”Do not parade your deeds before others or exhibit your virtues..” came to mind. Robert seems to have little patience or love for contemporary expressions of faith, prayer or spirituality. In his world view there should be only one ecpression: The Latin Mass WAY. I do not accept that because no “priests” were seen on Ash Wednesday that they were “lazy”. Utter nonsense and a cheap shot at priests. Are you and Robert truly aware of the dearth of priests in parishes and that many parishes depend on 83, 84, 85 86, 87 and 90 year old priests to help? I appreciate some of Roberts videos but he needs to stop making judgments in very discouraging ways – especially from the comfort of a beautiful hotel room in Mexico – all expenses paid for – while I’m in the Church looking after 400 or so who attended 2 masses on Ash Wednesday and a funeral later in the morning!! I dont think i came anywhere near lazy!!
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I think anything which discourages priests and anyone who might consider being a priest can only be good, since it will contribute to this scourge passing from our world.
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12:01am – A Wise old Irishman who could not read or write once said “If you want to see who the main crooks are in any Parish, check the front seat in Mass on Sunday”. Nothing changes except everyone else now knows they are there and has made the choice to leave them to it. God is Everywhere, one does not have to break bread with fleas to meet him.
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11.54am who was this old wise Irishman that said those words – tell us, go on go on go on.
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12:33 St Patrick. No, wait. Sorry, my bad, he was Welsh.
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11:54am Good on Him – What a Wise Guy.
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I didn’t see any laziness on Ash Wednesday when it came to blessing the faithful with ashes.
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11.42: Robert returns when his video gets a promotion and makes huge leaps of judgments about everyone. His statement that “it seems to be ok to eat in restaurants but not go to confession.” is perplexing but so self evidently clear in most parishes.. Mexico will go the way of many previous Catholic countries have gone – away from church doctrines about fear, guilt, hell and salvation and away too from organised religion. While we have confessions available every day and at weekends, very very few avail. Would I be so spiritually arrogant to make a call about the unworthiness of any parishioner? No. We invite, offer the moment of grace and trust people might come along. So many people I encounter each day are “saints” to me. When some people place themselves on higher pedestals of Godliness they often lack humility. The “rest” of us have it wrong! Now I’m worried about my unworthiness. O Lord, come to our aid: a pure heart create for me O God…give me again the joy of your help; with a spirit if fervour sustain me…We have a duty to bring people Gods love, kindness and mercy..
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I observed what is happening. I’ve a right to ask, “what happened” Why do SSPX/icksp/fssp priests spend hours on a Sunday confessing.
I leave others more holy and competent to judge. All I can to is observe and ask questions. I presume that is a legitimate task for any catholic to do.
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Why are you talking about the Catholic Church a lot when you are not Catholic? Robert seems more interest in making self-publishing videos rather than participating in the solemnity of the day. Perhaps it is time for ordinary Catholics to counter act the attacks on our Church by Buckley and the neo-Buckley in Robert. As an ordinary Catholic I like those buildings, I want reform and I want a more liberal Church. So you guys should get your own!
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But you see Bishop Buckley is Catholic.
Just not Roman Catholic.
Or do you mean Catholic™️
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There are 414,336 priests (religious and diocesan)throughout the world. Yet there are 153,840 practising solicitors in England and Wales alone.
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I see the number of priests in England and Wales peaked in 1965 at nearly 8,000 and has dropped ever since. The number of solicitors indicates who is needed more by the public.
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@10.20am Quote your source for this info!!
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https://faithsurvey.co.uk/catholics-england-and-wales.html
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11.02
His Aunt Ethel.
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I’m surprised at how clerical you are, Pat! You don’t have to be ordained to distribute ashes. It’s one of the many small ministries that lay people are able to do and YOU want to take that away from them!
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I am not against lay ministeries at all. I just think the priest should be present on important liturgical days.
Susan, I hope you are not one of those laity with an unfulfilled desire to be a priest?
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10.48: Pat, Susan is right: no need for flippancy. You are the most clerical of all. It stands to reason since you have no one else in the Oratory Association to fulfil any “clerical” or “lay” ministries. You defend your role more trenchantly than any other cleric. You are complaining that no priests are seen at liturgical celebrations…It’s a preposterous observation. Can you stop being so unrealistic? Will you supply the “priests” we need from the Oratory? Sometime Pat, you just don’t know when to cop in…come into the real world of PARISH MINISTRY…You and Robert are in dream land!!
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Why are you so rude? I’ve been a Eucharistic minister for over 30 years, I teach Children’s liturgy, and I am an active member of the parish council.
I love leading services of word and communion in the absence of our parish priest and working collaboratively with everyone in the parish, of which some are ordained and others are not.
I’m blessed to belong to an open minded and inclusive parish where ALL are welcome and nothing is off limits to laity.
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Pat, I am inclined to agree with Susan here and I don’t believe there was any need for you to adopt that tone with her for asking legitimate questions. You condemn others for NOT asking questions then insult her when she does? The point is a perfectly correct one though: you claim to be (and in fact are) outside the Roman Catholic system- yet you dress, behave and act like those you condemn. Why would a non-Roman Catholic follow the “dress code” of RC bishops? Why the soutane etc that you appear in in your “episcopal” portrait? Why the styling and coat of arms on your headed paper? It does seem to me, Pat, that you want the best of both worlds- but actually are at home in neither. And I think it’s manifestly clear from your contribution today that lay ministry is at the bottom of your agenda.
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10.48,why should a priest be present? What would his presence lend to the occasion that couldn’t be lent by the laity alone?
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3:33pm. Yes, Susan we all know that nothing is off limits to laity. Well Done for reconfirming that for us.
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I went to mass on Ash Wednesday morning in my local church and after the blessing of the ashes everybody went up to the altar where there were two priests putting the blessed ashes on each person’s forehead. At the end of Mass the Priest said that he would be available after Mass for anybody who hadn’t received their blessed ashes and stated that for those working or couldn’t get to Mass, some ashes would be left at the altar in a bowl and in small envelopes to be taken home. During the rosary after Mass several people came in to the church and received ashes from the priest.
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5.13: An excellent comment. Susan and you are right. Pat condemns the Catholuc hierarchy for its clericalism but practises it with greater fervour. His frequent photos of himself, rarely out of dark, dreary clerical suits or purple regalia and high Roman collar smacks of as much elitism, sense of entitlement and power as he condemns in the truly consecrated ones! Pat, I believe is to be admired in many ways but his lack of self criticism and inability to see his blatant contradictions are incredulous. At this stage of Pat’s life I think gecwiuld be very autocratic and awkward with “the laity” if he was still in the presbyterate. Pat, in real parishes, parishioners no longer take any clericalist nonsense….We who work on the ground know the true realities.
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@ 3:33pm
Susan you’re doing too much, get back to saying the Rosary and know your place. Leave these things to priests, we much prefer that.
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Where have all the priests gone? Pat, the question posed is somewhat disingenuous because you know that the numbers of priests has dwindled to critical levels. Were living in 2022, not the 60’s or 70’s or 80’s when we had two, three or four priests in any one parish. That reality changed very quickly from the 80’s onwards. Therefore the question asked about the absence of “all” the priests is absurd. It answers itself: The numbers are not there or available. In our church Ministers of the Eucharist helped bless with ashes as we had huge attendance at masses for Ash Wednesday. Robert also needs to come into the real world. He is never content with what he observes in all parishes or churches unless it is “laced” with Latin and that priests are turned to an ornate altar with our backs to people. We all know we face a crisis in priesthood and with vocations, so it is imperative that we be creative in allowing the “laity” be involved in celebrating of our liturgies. Yes, we need to rediscover reverence and a holiness about Mass and prayerfully prepared liturgies. The church I work in has a great sense of those wonderful people gone before us In the last 90 years – you can immediately sense the holiness of spirit in every seat…It is lovely church for quiet, private prayer. I just wish that Pat and Robert would be more conscious of the challenges faced by most priests and that many, many of us know we’re far from perfect and holy, but carry out our ministry as faithfully as we can. I suspect the majority of us are far more aware of our sinfulness, imperfections and our daily need of God’s mercy and geace than either you or Robert can envisage. We live in the real wirld and what we all need is encouragement, affirmation and prayerful support, not on-going judgment and made feel useless as priests!!
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Shame.
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As I said I’m a layman, a catholic and I’m obviously and blogging about what is happening to the Faith. I’m looking at the fully seminaries and fully churches of the SSPX,icksp,ibp,fssp. I’m looking at the Neo Catecumenala who will soon be the biggest seminary in Ireland, importing men to serve the Church. (I admire Kiko a lot and I know personally families he helped).
I can’t change anything in the Church, but I can ask questions and challenge what is going on.
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You can but you won’t.
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Visit the churches in any diocese in the UK (as I have done over many years) – apart from the PLUM parishes and presbyteries (a clerical reward or pay off system or based on rank/seniority) the vast majority are run down, unkempt, not maintained and some on the cusp of dereliction.
The majority of clergy are not equipped to bang a nail, change a light bulb or paint a room – let alone manage the upkeep of a few buildings. One of them a place where people worship God.
It’s a fiasco and will end with dioceses selling them off and developers converting them into Tapas Bars and Parking Lots.
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8:54am – I was in traffic outside a city church yesterday in ROI & although it was mainly a tarmac yard etc, the small front & side borders were high with weeds. One or two hours at most would transform it but not done. It was sad because it says so much.
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I ended up going to an Oratorian Church in London (Brompton Oratory) on Ash Wednesday because I was in London for meetings. What a performance, I have to tell you ! Not done particularly well, rather perfunctory, but with all the traditional elements that they were determined to get through. Rather badly, really. I don’t understand why these types, given that they lay such great emphasis on the liturgy and its being carried out, don’t take more care and attention. 3 out of 10 I think.
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That perfunctoriness is deliberate and part of their Roman style. Ex opere operato and all that.
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@ 9:20pm
‘These types’ well we know what type you are, I have been to The Oratory when visiting London and my experience was not yours. The Liturgy was superb and beautifully done so from me it’s absolutely 12 out of 10.
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Different people like different styles of liturgy.
I’ve always loved folk group singing at Mass – music like the St Louis Jesuits.
See bottom of blog above.
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Show me a well adjusted, normal, bright, sane young man who wants to be a priest. All those characteristics would lead such young man to run a mile. So, all that are left are the odd balls. Go and have a look at the crowd in your local seminary. You will see what I mean.
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@ 10:28am
Well Patsy I’m not surprised we differ again. I hate folk groups singing at Mass and would never go near one. If that’s what you like, I have no objection, as long as I don’t have to see or hear it.
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Bella at 10:55 are you alright, love? You didn’t threaten Pat with hell for liking the St Louis Jesuits music!
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9:21am Spot On and the laity that surround them odd balls too. Few left now only the odd balls.
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Oul Gossip Alert@ 12:19pm
Nettie, wondered when you’d turn up like a bad smell again. I don’t care what Patsy or anybody likes as long as they don’t foist it on me. Now on you go back to your curtain twitching you might have missed something.
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1.00
Govan Rob owl go sip a lert. The last supper was a meal.
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God made us all . He made the heterosexual people the celibate people , the asexual people, the barren people.
The problems Paul focuses on in
Romans 1 do not characterise same sex unions today that are based on love , commintment and where one would give their life for their loving partner.
Christians must agree with Paul that sexual behaviour that is motivated by lustful self seeking blackmail is wrong but same sex relationships based on long term commintments and love must be assessed differently.
As i see it we are turning a blind eye to hypocracy in the church with gay priests pretending to be celibate when they are not and also the sexual abuse cover ups. Where is intrinsic sin in all this.?
Making love is a gift from God and brings many health benefits for our well being when carried out in a loving committed relationship.
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Claiming (or more likely pretending) not to be able to see the intrinsic sin in covering up child abuse.
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Definitely bishop material.
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Oul Gossip Alert @ 5:55pm
Stevenston Annie aka Nettie etc. etc. or whatever name you’re using today. The last Supper was a meal, probably a bit upmarket from your usual meal from Iceland. But that is not The Holy Mass, The Holy Sacrifice of The Mass was on Mt. Calvary ya cretin! Ask Patsy he’ll keep you right
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A rabbi and a priest wanted to go for a swim at the beach, but did not have bathing suits with them…
The priest turns to the rabbi and says “why don’t we just swim naked, there’s no one around, and we’ll keep it between ourselves”.
The rabbi sees no problem with the idea, and agrees.
Once naked, the rabbi and the priest start walking towards the water, when suddenly out of nowhere seemingly a group of children appear on the beach.
The priest quickly takes his hands and covers his penis, while the rabbi uses his hands to cover his face.
Later, the priest turns to the rabbi and asks “why did you cover your face and not your penis when those kids showed up on the beach?”
The rabbi responds “father, I don’t know about you, but my congregation knows me by my face”.
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😁
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The children knew the rabbi by the gold he was wearing.
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Does that also mean they knew the priest by the birth mark on his pubis?
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A rabbi, imam and priest sat down to lunch. It wasn’t a pork lunch btw. The rabbi and imam kept referring to their better halves but at the end the priest got fed up and said you might have the better halves but we have the better quarters.
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Somewhat related is how the administrator of St Kevin’s church on Harrington St noted that people shouldn’t think his priests have a huge house. Most of it is offices and conference facilities, while priests have their own small corners of the place.
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@ 10.07 am anon
Hehehehe
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Those pesky Whoopsie moments! 😅
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Mass today was 16 minutes and 12 seconds and we started at 10:01. I prefer a longer, relaxed and more reflective mass. Not this commentary we are subjected to.
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Pat @10.17am The gold stood out more to merit their attention.
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Well, thank God it was the gold that was standing out 😀
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10.34/am maybe go to a church that says a latin mass and you will feel relaxed and will enjoy a very reflective mass.
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So let’s see what we have the Christians hating so far today
1. Permanent deacons
2. Jews
3. Performing liturgy well
4. Performing liturgy badly
5. Priests’ability to look after buildings
6. Not sure what Ethel’s on about but she’s hating on something
7. Robert Nugent
8. Each other
Looking good for the future guys.
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You left me out 😦
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@10.35am You left out yourself – hypocrites.
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But you LOVE me! You know you do really!
Pat how could I have missed you out! I also could have put in new mass and old mass.
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You should be lucky you all have a consistent member of the RCC to celebrate mass for we have a different one every other month due to holiday commitments.
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I meant by asking where is tintrinsic sin in the cover up of child abuse and hypicracy was to get you talking about it. In my opinion there should be more talk about the mortal sin carried out in the cover up of child abuse.
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The only people who can’t see an intrinsic sin in covering up child abuse are paedophiles.
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Who is called Ethel these days @ 10.50am only an auld wan.
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The Roman church is on it’s knees for good reason, it has nothing to do with God anymore, maybe it never did to begin with. A crisis in priesthood is a wonderful sign that people have woken up to the hypocrisy, abuses, prejudices, materialism and corruption of the man made institution.
Where is the oneness in the RCC? It’s quite clear that there has never been oneness in that institution. Even today, no two Catholics believe the same thing and the ruptures between those claiming to be Catholic are manifest. Even the pope himself seems to be attacked constantly by those claiming to be Catholics. There is no oneness.
Where is the holiness in the RCC? In the sacraments that are available in the same way in other churches? In the so called saints like Mother Teresa, who has now been outed as a truly terrible human being? In the laity who don’t turn up?
Where is the Catholicism in the RCC? The very insistence that Catholic means universal has been shown to be a faulty translation, the word means fullness, wholeness, completion and is in relation to the faith. The RCC doesn’t even seem to have any idea of what it actually believes in. Oh on the surface Catholics will claim that they believe the teachings of the church, but ask them to explain it and you’ll have endless amounts of versions and it’s quite clear no Catholic believes in 100% of it, something that automatically excommunicates them.
Where is the Apostolic in the RCC? The church claims it comes from apostolic succession, but they can’t actually manage to prove without question a direct lineage right back to the apostles. Even with the papacy, there’s more evidence that go far enough back and it’s all made up. If you look at the apostolic succession of bishops, it’s even worse still. If in all charitability, you look to the Eastern Orthodox for their definition of apostolic succession to include continuity of teaching, well apostolic succession definitely doesn’t exist in the Roman church.
Finally and perhaps most sad of all, where is the church in the RCC? There is no community and this blog proves it. On one hand, you have the clergy who cling on to clericalism for dear life, are they the church? On the other, you have the laity who bicker and fight even worse than the clergy or at best can only be called cultural Catholics. The community of the faithful is splintered, divided and torn apart worse than the north of Ireland during the Troubles. That’s not a community, it’s many communities.
The game is up for the Roman church. People don’t oppose it because they don’t understand it, as Fulton Sheen claimed, they oppose it because they understand it too well and have or are jumping out of the sinking ship. If there ever was One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, it died years ago because it was man made and no throw away obscure line from fallible men in 1st century Palestine is going revive it. Reformation of the church, been there done that, evangelization done that too. Let the church be archived in world history and move on.
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Spot on. I would just question whether the laity bicker more than the clergy – they have less at stake and are less invested in bickering. OTOH the clergy are more occupied in their prolific sex lives so perhaps they bicker less. Not sure.
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BOOOI@11:46. Well said 👏.
Indeed we are all better off “out of it.”
The whole convoluted mish mash of RCC theological beliefs are simply ridiculous. Their Bible claims, “by their fruits you will know them .” When we look at the RCC and its clerics another dictum springs to mind: “never a truer word spoken.”
There are other more sensible and meaningful ways to engage in spirituality than to be associated with that cesspool of self interested corruption.
MMM
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I really like round churches but the two you’ve pictured look like they would be really noisy.
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Hi. Any Glasgow friends know who the new Chancellor there is? I see Fr Bradley remains VG.
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Sorry, Pat, but I’m not sure why you recommend RN’s take on Ash Wednesday. If a priest posted a photo of himself as ostentatiously as the one on Roberts forehead, you’d scream “hypocrite”!! I’m confused mostly by these priclamatiins by Ribert from his sunny Mexican pedestal. I find his relentless attacking and comparing very discouraging. Also, Pat, MMM has stated so many times his vehement anti Catholicism and I wonder is it time to ignore him. He attacked you recently for not answering questions. His rants today are poisonous.
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4.23: There is some merit in putting MMM into quarantine for some time. It would be commendable if he took a Lenten pledge of fasting from condescension, drink, sneering and mockery. MMM, your atheistic belief are yours alone. Stop imposing them on this blog.
Your tirades are predictable tiresome. Incidentally, look what Russia’s atheistic ideologues and oligarchs are doing with Putin: mayhem, slaughter, murder of the innocent…
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Funny, the cathbots don’t like it when priesthood is equated with child abuse but it’s okay to equate MMM and Putin.
But then I forget, you’re an RC so you would not understand morals or ethics.
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4.23 & 5.14: safeguard Mourneman, National Treasure!
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Yes Alvin. It’s very revealing to see the reactions when religious beliefs are questioned. Invariably, it’s ad hominem personalised derogatory comment bearing no connection, and certainly no sensible response, to legitimate questions posed.
Would it not be more reasonable for these religious adherents of “Christianity” to simply “pity me”, and pray for me, rather than engage in such vitriol?
One has to wonder what inspires them so.
MMM
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Another very shocking expose from CM, this time of Donald Wuerl.
This is why there is no such thing as a good priest: you can’t stay in communion with such corruption.https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/special-report-cardinal-sins
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Good priests are as rare as hen’s teeth.
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Bishop Pat, I was sorry to hear today that you went to a lazy SPR function and who want to be established here in the North. They wined and dined you and granted, you scolded them but they needed a more severe telling off. They are gluttons and have no respect for the church. They are basically Freemasons dressed up. Can you explain their motto or purpose/existene. I am all for fun and enjoyment but this group take the biscuit. Shows bad e
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A handful of former Angicans are members of the SPR and the Superior, though now deceases, was brow beaten into accepting a number of them though strictly the single ones only. They are a secret bunch.
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@8.12pm Although your gripe with former Anglicans is clear in relation to the SPR only one exists in their ranks and is in poor health. I am led to believe the SPR is a fraternity of clergy who socialise, support and care for one another. That is no bad thing. Yes, they socialise, have talks, many laughs and frivolity. That is how the Founder wanted it and he has passed on the mantle to the original Father General. The Society is now in full swing here in the Province under the Father General. I know clergy here and bishops resist the SPR values and ideals because they have meals, jokes, laughter and fun. They support one another and look out for one another. Sadly we find in the SPR the Irish clergy have been deprived of all this. Their morale is zero and caca. Join the SPR.
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Quite interesting about the commandments being inscribed on the steps to the altar at the SSPX! An Anglican influence? Perhaps an idea for the Ordinariate?
Just saw a tweet from a priest about bringing the commandments’ boards back to Episcopal churches. I guess his hope is that their visibility would induce folks to observe them. Rather a nice fancy.
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Well, we know where Fr McDonagh was today. He was throwing paint at The Russian Embassy as reported in media this evening.
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9.23: You’re wrong. The paint throwing was yesterday. Today he was outside the GPO. Well done to him. Have you a problem?
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3:43pm if you think the interior of Killarnay cathedral is bad drive up to Monaghan and have a look. A once beautiful church totally destroyed in the 1980’s by the bishop of the day. A total shame.
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9:34pm So true and same story all over the country – mismanagement of resources and disregard for heritage of older buildings paid for by very poor congregations in olden times. Now Catering to Whims of new Bishops & clergy and jobs for their boys and consultancy fees.
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