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HOW MANY UKRAINIAN REFUGEES WILL ACTUALLY LIVE WITH AMY MARTIN IN HIS ARA COELI PALACE IN ARMAGH?

EAMON MARTIN was publicly spouting this week about the need to take in Ukrainian refugees.

HIS ANSWER: To house them in parish halls or other available church properties.

Eamon, how would you like your mother, granny, nephews, and neices living in a church hall for 6 months to 3 years?

Jesus said nothing about church halls.

He did say:

“WELCOME STRANGERS INTO YOUR OWN HOME”.

Your home is the Ara Coeli bishops palace in Armagh with many rooms.

Eamon, just tell us plain and simple – how many Ukrainian refugees will you take in to live with you in palatial Ara Coeli?

It’s very easy to throw 20 or 30 Ukrainians into a church hall in Ballygobackwards and get the laity to bring them food, supplies, and money.

And, of course, you will go to Balkygobackwards for the required photo op.

But are you prepared to share your kitchen, living room, and bedrooms with Ukrainian women and children?

I am only able to challenge you like this because I have registered to take Ukrainian refugees into my home and share my sitting room, kitchen, and bedrooms with them.

I will share my toilet and shower with the refugees.

I am in touch with people in Warsaw as we speak to identify a family or families, I want to take in here with me.

And they can come here today if I can get them here!

I could put them in sleeping bags in my chapel. I could put them on a caravan on my driveway.

I could ask members of my congregation to open their homes to them.

But how can I have the nerve and neck to do that if I don’t lead the way and do it myself?

WILL THE BIG LUXURY PRESBYTERIES BE USED FOR UKRAINIAN REFUGEES?

Will the many big, high-end luxury presbyteries in Armagh diocese be used to house Ukrainian refugees – like the one inhabited by Benedict Fee at Clonoe, Coalisland – aka Fee’s Hotel?

FEE’S HOTEL, CLONOE

Let’s wait and see how many bishop’s palaces and super presbyteries will be used to house Ukrainian refugees.

Taking strangers into your home does involve risks – but Christians take risks for their Christ, do they not?

Over the past 36 years, I have taken a lot of people into my house to live with me – homeless people, addicts etc

A fair number of them have stolen from me or created other problems.

But that’s the risk you take if you act the way you should.

It’s part of what Jesus meant when he spoke about the daily carrying of the cross.

PRIESTS HOUSE ARMAGH
ST PAULS BELFAST

JESUS ON RISK TAKING

225 replies on “HOW MANY UKRAINIAN REFUGEES WILL ACTUALLY LIVE WITH AMY MARTIN IN HIS ARA COELI PALACE IN ARMAGH?”

Pat, have you been allotted any Ukranians yet? You pose very apt questions. I do hope that the Church will be very generous in compassion to a Ukranians. The leaders of our Church should set an example. It’s a pity you pose the questions by way of inviting an onslaught on the bishops. I cannot accommodate as I share a house with another priest. We may be able to do something. However, I have committed to giving personal financial support to three families who have taken Ukranians for as long as is necessary. Our parish community, individual priests and others are committed to doing similar. To use the Ukranian humanitarian tragedy as a stick with which to condemn others is very nasty. You do not know what any individual bishop or priest is doing personally. In my sister’s parish in Ireland, a religious community of sisters has given accommodation to six families and her parish has rallied in support. All of us are called to help in some way: Jesus calls us to feed the hungry: clothe the naked: shelter the poor: visit the sick and the prisoner…We may not be able to do everything but we can certainly choose to live at least one or all of these gospel virtues, each person’s individual contribution of love and care creating an ocean of compassion, making a difference. This is a time for all of us to help, not to compare and condemn or make very self righteous judgments about others. Recently you allowed some very disturbing comnents be printed which emphatically said that no Ukranian should be housed in a presbytery. You didn’t reject the horrendous inference of these nasty comments but allowed many to be printed. Do you approve of these comments? Aside from such horribleness, all of us together can and will make a difference to any refugee anywhere in the world by one simple act of love and care, however we choose to do so. As Christians we look to the calling of Jesus for our template and example. Let’s pray we will respond.

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9:17 Well Said – plus note the deliberate amnesia in relation to the ongoing nasty treatment and retraumatising of victims of RCC related wrong doing.

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9.17: I am the leastb passive aggressive person you’ll ever meet. I certainly did not intend any such thing. I state my opinions strongly. As for Pat at 9.20: I do not owe you – nor does any person – an explanation for decisions made re: accommodating or welcoming Ukranians to our homes or presbyteries. Along with colleagues, religious and parishioners, I believe we are doing our best to reach out in whatever compassionate way possible. Some commenters made references recently that Ukranians should not be allowed into priest’s homes, comments which are offensive and which provoke the kind of ongoing anti priest rhetoric, as evidenced today. I can live with this criticism but what I do personally and by way of supporting any effort or initiative is not something we should boast about. Many of us just do the right, Christian thing: to care. Comparing efforts of one against another is not correct. It is divisive. Yes, as I said in my comment I hope and pray that presbyteries can, where possible and appropriate, will offer welcome and accomodation. I hooe too that church leaders will respind generoysly. Apart from this, each of us personally and as a parish community can do a huge amount of giving and caring. Having read many comments today I am challenged to do more but I disapprove of the implicit, personalised judgments made about me and clergy in general. May God help all of us do our utmost…

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I cannot see why you and your fellow priest cannot take a Ukrainian mother and child.

Is you fellow priest opposed to this?

On what grounds?

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Remember most priests have addiction issues they hide from parishioners and inviting refugees into their homes will only expose this, amongst many other things.

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9.20: What ithers do, irrespectuve 8f who they are, is none of your business. Absolutely NOYB…Atheists are doing as much, if not, more than you’re doing. Stop exaggerating about your mighty deeds. Of course Christians should be CHRIST to all who are in need but do the kind deeds without the need for adulation. I have friends who are not particularly religious but whose kindness to Ukranians is quite inspiring. May I respectfully ask you: aside from asking/challenging church personnel, which I accept, why have you given space to individuals to express the most hateful and ugly language against priests I have seen in a very long time? Are my gestures of support and care less significant than yours, even if it is to just supply baby clothing?

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No!!! YOU should be ashamed of yourself. A valid point has been made by Martin. PB has allowed comments to be made that no families should be housed in presbyteries. We are now reading that families should be housed. They are damned if they do and danned if they dont. Which is it to be. Can we have clarity from PB?I
Pax
Garngad Lad

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They should not be housed in presbytery’s where the priests have ongoing sexual encounters with lovers or have history of sexual contact with women. Pat has already highlighted reasons why they should not be put up.

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11.58
Come again.😕 YOU have committed to providing financial support, for as long as necessary, to three families in your parish who have taken in Ukranian refugees.😅
You pompous-sounding, pretentious liar! It isn’t YOU, priest. YOU don’t work for a living, but mooch off others.
YOU can easily dip into parish funds to fulfill your obligation here, but it won’t cost YOU anything. No sweat off YOUR brow, you liar and hypocrite!
It is easy (oh, so easy!) to appear generous and saelf-sacrificing…with other people’s money.
From the way in which your pretentious post is worded, you are full of self-congratulation, and high self-regard. And, doubtless, you expect others to think the same.

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I wonder how many houses would be available if we asked curates and parish priests to reside together and offered all vacant presbyteries in Ireland?
I wonder how many of us will be asked at the pearly gates as to why we have not been offering accommodate all along to the various other people that have required it, as +Pat has done.

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12:03am:
A similar thought crossed my mind. From a safety perspective, such an arrangement would protect clergy and refugees.

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A church collection is taking place next weekend. Every parish on the island will support this collection in support of the people of the Ukraine.
++ Eamon has said it is “heartening” to see the charity and solidarity for those who have been impacted by the war in Europe.
It is important that people reflect on the support that they can give.

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@10.16am How much loose money will be removed from that collection by clergy to fund their meals out and lifestyles?

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People are pushed financially as it is. Keep your money in your own pockets and stop lining the pockets of your priest.

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Anonymous 10:42 & Anonymous 10:52,
Trócaire has and continues to help millions of people worldwide. Trócaire have a partnership with Caritas Ukraine and Caritas Poland. All support is greatly appreciated.
Pax.

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None as I have not got the accommodation . I would if I could. How many will you house?
PB has rightly mentioned there are risks.
Language? How do we communicate.? Culture and feeding. What happens when we all get on each others nerves?
I understand the horrors that these poor people are going througjh. I would not wish that on anyone. There is a sense of urgency to protect these poor people who have lost everthing. But we do need to be csreful.
Pax
Garngad Lad

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@1.29pm Don’t rabbit on about Trocaire as they are a waste of space. Please look at their spending on administration and office space plus staff. I am surprised they have any money left to spend on emergency situations. Plus add to that the travel expenses air/hotel of some of the Irish Bishops they pay for to go on (holiday) sorry fact finding missions I meant, abroad.

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10.29: Garngad Lad. You are right. No priest will ever get anything right by Pat’s standards. I admire his generosity if it comes to fruition. But for Pat to arrogantly judge all others is simply incredulous. Whatever about the legitimacy of his challenges, the tone of his comments and of commenters is nasty. I bet many of the priest critics are sitting behind their laptops doing sweet damn all. It’s the usual – those who shout loudest do very little!! Does Pat seriously want all of us to publicly boast about our caring? Seriously. An 87 year old grandmother close by has taken in a family of 4 and is receiving wonderful support by the community.These are the people I admire most, the people who truly care but don’t want plaudits for doing what Jesus asks of us.

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Thank you for that.There are a lot of unsung heroes out there like the 87 year old grandmother you have mentioned. I like to be fair. The unsung heroes deserved to be admired. they just get on with it rather than mumping and moaninglike bigotted fireside critics.
Pax
Garngad Lad

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7.11: Look at the myriad of charities we have anywhere and admin costs are horrendous. That’s why I choose charities very carefully. I have no difficulty with supporting Trocaire. As an aid agency they reach millions of people each year.

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Will Eugene O’Hagan’s 4 bedroom house on the serpentine road be used to house refugees? Will Paddy Walsh’s vacant house be used. Look at the multi room presbyteries in Belfast occupied mostly by one priest(and their lovers). Will these be used?Will bishop Blings sumptuous and decadent palace be used ?

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Eugene is organising a singing charity event with his brother and Delargy in the Felons with all proceeds going to the Ukraine fund. There are more ways than housing families that we can all help out.

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Raising money for refugees, though very welcome, is the biggest cop out in avoiding having to house them.

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Of course they do. Take the horse blinkers off mate. Come to my gym and you will see that the one thing the priest works out the most in his sessions are his eyes. He’s like a child in a sweet shop.

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4 bedroom house is needed for Eugene. One bedroom is a wardrobe. One is a recording studio and one is a guest room for friends like Daniel when they come and stay.

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Heres a challenge. I’m in contact with a couple who are placing Ukrainian families (yes families, not single people), into Irish homes, both North and South. I could realistically have them housed in your home within days. Do you honestly accept this challenge, and I mean honestly. I would likely mean a stay on several months.

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Absolutely. Please get me a family ASAP.
They can stay up to 3 years under UK law.

And as you have publicly challenged me let’s keep the readers informed of the progress both you and I make.

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Armagh is certainly an interesting choice of diocese Bishop Pat. Given there are a number of MIA clergy, quite a number of rooms should be freed up 🙂 some parishes in Tyrone are ridiculous; one priest per 4000sq feet. But I suppose their ego requires every sq inch of this space.

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Any safety issues placing refugees with priests ? Consider the treatment of genuine survivors of institutional church abuse who come forward. The modus operandi of the institution seems to be to treat survivors of church abuse with contempt, gaslighting and to retraumatize. Public religious rhetoric and private practice are NOT at all necessarily congruent. Are those traumatised by war at risk of potentially being traumatised by the church? Abusive priests can be protected by their bishops.

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Omg! Is that actually a priest’s house in Clonoe? Totally OTT.
Ara Coeli at least has a lot of offices in it and the bishop lives in just one part of it, but Clonoe is extravagant…..luxury in the extreme.

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Knock all the presbytery houses down and build a dorm for priests to reside in. Like Maynooth. Buy a mini bus to take each one to work each day. Simples

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9.23

Why were Catholics not up in arms about the size of that presbytery in Clonoe?

WTF is wrong with these people? Do they enjoy being made fools of by priests? Because this is what happened here. A single man, a priest, who does not work for a living, but instead sponges off those who do, has built for himself a luxury home, which most people in his parish could not afford. And these people think that is ok? Seriously?

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Good question. And it’s not as if Canon Fee moved into it. He built it for himself.

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It also happens to be a parish resource centre – office, meeting facilities, etc. At least know the facts before spouting your crap.

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You are right, + Pat. Bishops and clergy will use the cover of offering parish halls, parishioners’ homes and whatever else is available as an excuse not to have the unwashed hoi polloi disturbing their own domestic comfort. In England, I guess there is lots of room in some of the seminaries that could be used to house individuals, even families – places like the cavernous Oscott College, Allen Hall, perhaps even the newly emptied Wonersh. There are dozens if not hundreds of spaces that could easily be put to use. I know that there will be much sucking of teeth by clergy and diocesan staff about the difficulties of doing this, insurance, safeguarding etc. But, really, those will just be handy excuses for prevarication. Yes, and I know the question will, be what am I doing ? And yes, there will be an offer of a space for a refugee from wherever coming from me once I can work out the process and bureaucracy. However, I do not expect any leadership from my parish priests (yes, we have a few in our parish, given it’s a religious house, which by the way is only 25 % inhabited and has lots of room to offer); there will just be sloping of shoulders and they will satisfy themselves that other people are doing the heavy lifting and doing the hosting. God forbid that anything could be allowed to disrupt their self-satisfied clerical existence. + Pat, please do keep an eye on this one, and perhaps draw up a register of parishes and priests who are hosting refugees and showing an example and leadership. And a list of those who don’t. I’ve learned with bishops and clergy that the best leverage is shaming them. I mean Vin of Westminster only had to eat humble pie when he was finally summoned to ICSA to confront the truth. Sometimes we have to rely on outside agencies to drag the Church and its bishops and clergy in to line. That needs to happen more often, because on so many things they have shown that they are not capable of doing the right thing by themselves. Thanks.

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Look, in any diocese there is ample spare accommodation to house refugees. It’s just a question of being willing and bothering, and not looking for excuses. I must say for the most part I find the clergy really don’t want to be bothered. They really don’t want disturbing, for the most part. So, yes, I agree that embarrassing and shaming them in to some sort of positive action is a way forward, and parishioners and others should do everything to do that. Ask you priest, in public, what is he going to do ? Point out, again publicly, any excuses he makes and counter them. Make it clear that in most circumstances there are no excuses for saying no. Then, if that does not work, apply your own sanctions. Go somewhere else where they do give a shit about these things, stop diving your money, stop volunteering for the priest’s vanity projects, stop making excuses for him. It will take a bit of time to work, but it will work. Challenge, question, shame, withhold and pressure. They don’t like it up ’em, as Cpl Jones used to say. Or maybe they do in some cases !

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I disagree with the criticism of halls but it’s understandable that some see it differently. The war in Europe is an emergency situation. Many people can be respectfully and safely catered for in a hall in this emergency situation.

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Noel Treanor has already stated he will not be housing refugees until he learns more of the legal checks they will be going through.

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He gladly spends millions in refurbishing his Lisbreen Palace but throws caution to the wind to housing people that have nothing – despicable

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“Hello Fr it’s Noel here, just wanting to know if you could come up for a chat we have received a complaint here”. When Noel rings, you know it’s bad.

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Smarmy Eugene is a total bum lick when it comes to Noel. He is desperate for his gig when he retires.

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Pat,

I hope you are keeping well. Pat I sent an E mail to the down and Connor diocesan offices as Noel does not make himself available to be contacted directly. Did I expect a response did I f##! I made the following points in relation to diocesan properties that could be made available to Ukraine families

Walsh is in a nursing home so what has become of his residence in Downview?

Does Farquhar really need to live alone in fruit hill park surely lisbreen has enough space for two men or surely he can move up the road and Live in st Theresas or up to st agness

St Paul’s has a massive presbytery as does st Peters surely to God wee Tony Devlin and Martin Graham could share a presbytery they are effectively an extension of each other’s parishes and finally what ever became of the wing that was the seminary in St Malachys. That was a big building that is perfect as a family hub. Not like they l ever need it as a seminary again!!

I’m sure the diocesan authorities are mulling over my suggestions and I await there reply with bated breath😀

Take Care Pat keep up the good work

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Gabriel Lyons will not have to move or take in refugees as he has complex needs. But the way round that is to move other priests who he works closely with into his presbytery and free up the others.

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For the safety of priests and refugees alike we should make priests live with priests and refugees have their own houses. Fr Lyon’s is a noble man and if circumstances were different he would surely rehome some.

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Farquhar will not be challenged by anyone, clerical colleague or lay man would be a brave soldier to take on this man.

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Pat, it is unfair to name people who ‘should’ take in refugees as we don’t know personal circumstances. Bishop of D&C is a very busy man and can not be expected to house women and children that will distract him from his important duties. He also already employs a Polish man.

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Oh, he can employ a few more Brazilians. That should help and improve the scenery. What do you mean he’s busy and can’t look after anything else or anybody ?! We are all busy, but we find time. Clergy simply don’t have a clue about being busy. They think they are, but in reality they do very little. Saying a Mass and doing little else is for the most part a day’s work for most clergy. Other than a bit of interior design, a bit of phoning around for the gossip, meeting up with mates for lunch, playing a bit of golf, going off to the Canaries for some winter sun. And, we know, for so many a bit of time given over to extra-curricular activities – sauna, cruising, Grindr etc.

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Who could forget the harem of Brazilians that entertain the palace, they would probably clash with Eastern Europeans as they are strong vocal women

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What is the £350.00 per month for, Bp Pat? Is it per person, for example, or to cover food and other expenses you may incur?

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Apparently it is £ 350 per month per house. I will take Ukrainians either way. If I get the grant I will spend it, and more, on the family.

My congregation will also help.

My colleague Fr Paul has a 2 bedroom apartment. He is already registered to have his spare room occupied.

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Retired clergy who live in modest houses should also take refugees. Especially those who live outside their dioceses and drain their diocese of funds.

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Retired for a reason. Sure let’s force all the pensioners to take in women / no! They should lead a happy retirement life.

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9:54 Police Clearance for retired clergy will have expired so not an option to house vulnerable women and children.

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12:03pm As you clearly won’t consider female refugees, Would you take in male refugees, Fr Retired? The female slaves and indeed all genders from the laundries & farms etc., should also have been afforded the compassion of, as you put it, a happy retirement life. These misfortunes cannot even do their family tree or find long lost loved ones as many pensioners enjoy because the RCC fiddled the files. You couldn’t make it up.

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Clonoe is not the only big diocesan or religious house in Armagh Archdiocese. Drogheda, Dundalk, Armagh, Dungannon, Cookstown, Magherafelt, the Servites in Benburb, Ballygawley, Keady, South Armagh etc. This list is not exhausted by any means. These priests living in spacious luxury who are not taking refugees need to be called out now and named/shamed. Armagh is not alone as tgeir is spacious properties and empty ones in Derry, Clogher and Down & Connor. If you know a diocesan large property with one priest or empty then name it on the blog.

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Gates lives in the big parish presbytery on his own in Magherafelt and the curate lives in another presbytery just a few hundred metres away and there is another presbytery near that which might be empty.
O’Byrne also lives on his own in a separate house in Magherafelt also.
Let’s see what happens in this town.

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Pat
Did you see the Fr. David Vard interview on RTE? What questions would you have asked him? It might make for an interesting blog.
I wonder.

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What on Earth would David Vard know about “falling in love” in order to be telling people that’s how he and his faith is like?

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He’s 30 now. So, he has not had sex for 7 years – 2015? He went into Maynooth at 18 and has not had sex since he was 23. Does that mean he had sex in Maynooth. And was it with a blonde female?

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It’s a pity that Tommy did not question David more about his sexuality and what went on in maynooth that the bishops circled the wagons and only Bishop Martin spoke up that time about strange going ons there.

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Tommy Tiernan did inform Fr David Vard that he’d be welcome around his house any time. Tommy won’t spill the beans though!! That’ll be some booze session!! If only the walls had ears!! 👂 👂 👂 👁 👁🤣

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Boris Johnson compared them Ukraine war to that of the Brexit vote. How on earth did he get elected to run this country?

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Pat are you supporting the P&O staff who were dismissed? I feel really bad for them and think we need to step up our efforts at looking after our own people first.

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I went to Larne Harbour on Friday to stand with them and support them. There wasn’t a soul around. I will do what I can.

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There is plenty of room in the local parochial house as Fr must have flexi time or has reduced his hours as he is never in parish.

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Jeffery Donaldson is a racist bigot, he says the more Ukrainians we take in will mean crime will rise, benefits will increase and for once he can not see beyond this and the humanitarian crisis we have unfolding.

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As Michael Jackson rightly sang, “what about us?”
What about the rest of the damn world who are not white and privileged to be born in Europe?
Bunch of hypocrites the lot of you.

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You know it’s going to be a mad day when Michael Jackson is being quoted. Let’s all hang our children out windows and have sleepovers with all the kids in the street sure also.

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Fr Kevin said he can not take any refugees in as he doesn’t feel the parochial house he lives in will be a safe environment for them to live. He has a fair point as locals use his car park to deal drugs, take them etc and we need to be looking at the bigger picture than just how many spare bedrooms someone has.

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This is one example that is genuine. When on the emergency phone he got a punch in the face before Christmas after leaving in the middle of the night. We could not knowingly put women and children in further danger. When they arrive here we need to ensure their safety and make this stay for them as pleasant as we can.

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So long as my refugees keeps a tidy and clean home I will take in as much as would be possible and comfortable for me and them.

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Well I think it will be good for them to be drawn up a rota of housework they should do everyday until they get jobs, will keep them busy and occupied.

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Look at the size of St Pauls presbytery. Should we be really rehoming foreign people to west belfast though? It’s rough.

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These Ukrainian women will put our priests to shame. They will be more butch and they will surely be looking at our wimpy priests in disgust. Like look at the priest that skips up and down the andytown road like he is in a broadway show with his blower hat and shiny black shoes.

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Do you have to have a spare bedroom to take one in? I have a lovely sofa that I would sleep on and offer up my bed but don’t know if that would fit the criteria?

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I don’t understand why the onus is on clergy to take in all these people. If any occupation should be forced to take these people on it should be nurses. They are the ones that claim to be above everyone else and the most caring in society.

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Don’t forget about all the nuns homes we have that are vacant. Why are they not being asked to take them in. Women understand women better than men.

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The monks at Mellifont, Portglenone and elsewhere should be making their separate guesthouses available.

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Pat I wouldn’t harms cat or any animal but one thing I could not do is house someone with a cat as I’m petrified of them. On the news they all seem to be cat lovers.

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I hardly think they will be bringing cats across Europe. They will be lucky to get themselves here. What a silly question.

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Most of these Ukrainians are heavy smokers. £20 a day for cigarettes adds up to approx £600 a month on smoking alone. £350 covers nothing.

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You might have a point at 11.02.
I live in a flat with two bedrooms, one of them small with a single bed. I’m on disability benefit, even so I would love to take in a Ukranian mother and her child. But that’s me thinking with my heart, not my head. I have to be sensible. I’m being made to feel guilty by people who have larger homes and bigger incomes than mine. On my benefit, I can barely afford to look after myself. Sometimes I cant. Sometimes I have to ask family for financial help, and it crucifies me to do so.
I have made as big a donation as I could afford to a fund to help those poor Ukranians. I’d love to do more, but good intentions wont pay the inevitable bills taking in refugees would create. That £350 a month would only help in part. As it is, I can’t heat my home for more than 3 hours a day when its cold, mostly one or two hours.
If I took in a mother and child, then I would have to put the heating on for longer, especially if the child was very young. But who is going to refill my oil tank, and pay the extra electricity costs. The government? Those who lecture others on what Jesus might do?
I simply haven’t the wherewithall to do what others with a lot more money and bigger homes say they are doing.
People HAVE to be realistic here. We can’t give what we dont have, and people should not be made to feel guilty over this.

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Bill Mulvihill has a lot to say until it comes to how many women he will take in. He only gives up his bed for men and priests – sometimes both

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Wouldn’t it be hilarious if we had a Big Brother Clergy special of all the clowns that we have as priests in D&C. I think I may be the only sane one amongst us all. (And straight)

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There are 65 unused bedrooms in the seminary in Maynooth, according to its room booking site.
“During the academic year 65 rooms are available”.

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Will Fr Michael Commane op house any refugees in either of his two properties (Dublin & Kerry)? Or is the Kerry property being quietly rented without any tax being paid?

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Surely the Dominicans own these two properties because Fr Commane OP is a mendicant friar and is not allowed to own personal property. Maybe the Dominicans allow him use these properties for a specific apostolate. But it must be an unusual apostolate is it requires two buildings at opposite ends of the country. I suggest that Fr Commane OP moves back into a community friary and then the order can allocate both properties to refugee seekers. This would also save Fr Commane OP from using the train service so much.

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That is a fantastic idea! And surely fr commane op, who is so critical of the institutional church, would jump at the chance to practice social justice.

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I think talk off having refugees clean all the houses is tantamount to slavery. My refugee will relax and if she wants to lift the vacuum cleaner and use it she may, but there will be no pressure.

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Fr Bartlett says they can all have as much ice cream as they want from the family shop that affords him a Maserati

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How many spare bedrooms does our MLAs have? They should be setting examples and taking them in, not expecting all the poor people that live in terrace houses that are over run with mice already.

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11:35am On the news, they seem to be travelling across Europe with their cats. Hungry cats love mice. Our presbytery is a non smoking household.

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@4.54pm Would love to see any photos you might have of them travelling across Europe with their cats. On all the rolling news 24/7 news coverage I have only seen them clutching family members and belongings – no cats though!!!

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Amy also has access to the palatial Armagh suite in Maynooth, which is exclusively for his use and which is never let out. It has its own kitchen and is fully self-contained and could house a family. The other archbishops have slightly smaller sets of rooms. This link shows a sample of the empty rooms owned by St Patrick’s College that are let out all year round and could easily and safely house refugees.
https://www.maynoothcampus.com/gallery/

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I would hope the parent will parent and look after the kids.

If she wants part time work I can get her a job.

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I was speaking with Tony Rice CSSR, who said he is expecting the first influx of refugees to be placed this week in Dublin. He is going to keep me updated on the progress of the situation Pat.

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@11.48am Mr CSSR is behind the times. 7,000 refugees have already arrived in Ireland. Typical out of touch with the facts and reality.

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When Mr CSSR name is mentioned on here it sets a local Belfast priests heart rate through the roof for fear of revelations. Don’t worry Fr, your secret, is safe with me.

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How many kids do these Ukrainian women have? Are they breeders like the poorest population here? Jeffery is right in what he says unfortunately people are too left wing here now.

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I bet if it was mostly Ukrainian men that was being taking in that priests would be fighting over how many to take in.

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Jesus, Pat, you’re letting some shite through today. I’ll read the new post tonight but there’s no point reading the comments.

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9:42. He employs a polish man !! Listen to yourself. The guy lives here and is paid poorly and treated poorly. Noel Treanor is a busy man! Busy doing what? Wrecking the diocese or deciding what bottle of expensive wine to drink. Catch yer self on

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I see the knights of columbanus are not rushing to help the refugees. Too busy wining and dining the clergy plus making too many business contacts in their own territory.

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2.09: You are very wrong. I can testify to the wonderful help given by the Knights. They just dont shout their caring from the rooftops. That’s all. Do you get it…?

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@5.25pm No they don’t shout anything from the rooftops, they keep all hush hush. Especially the big hush hush dinners and lots of wine treating the likes of Fr Delargy and others in Ballymena and other places.

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The Knights are very close to Putin in the manner they dispense themselves. They know no boundaries to the mentors they use to destroy…..like Blair and Bush and Biden and oul Michael Martin and Kenny in their protection of primary school teacher and Principal abusers…sexual and physical…and perennially abusive psychologically. The Knights are institutionally aggressively destructive of their opposition…and without philosophical underpinning of any kind….Back Street Bootboys…like Brady!

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Canon Fee is not happy you refer to his house as a “Hotel” Pat. I can imagine the Armagh clergy will now nickname it “Fee’s Hotel”. Just like the way they nicknamed their own Archbishop as “Amy” and “the auld doll”.

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On a day of Remembrance for a who died from Coronavirus, in the midst of horrendous suffering by the Ukranian people, when we are all trying to do something constructive, whatever our act of caring may be, the blog today dedicated itself to an onslaught on clergy, with some totally unacceptable and ugly invective. It is beyond my rational capacity to understand why Pat facilitates this anti clerical abuse. He, nor indeed his followers, have a clue about what any induvidual person or family is doing to respond to this crisis. It is obvious that behindbthe headlines, Pat is acting very deviously. We owe God our conscience not Larne.

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With the current state of the RCC and its priesthood, anticlericalism must surely be a virtue?

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I don’t think priests should be harmed physically. That is criminal.

But they should be challenged at every turn.

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By Post Author

3.33: Pat, stop always being so unkind. Its unnecessary. Anyway, have you been assigned any Ukranians yet? Some families I know have all been vetted and been interviewed to assess their suitability. I suppose these protocols are vital to ensure the safety and well being of all refugees.

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I didn’t suggest harming priests physically, Pat at 4.16. Nevertheless, they should be done away with, given the grave and demonstrable harm they have caused God’s people.

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This blog is about corruption in the Roman Catholic Church. You want Pat to be an expert in epidemiology and geopolitics?

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No. They just want me not to talk about the corruption in the RC church.

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By Post Author

3.30, are you a priest?

So ‘we owe God our conscience, not Larne’. 😅

You’re a liar, priest. Your conscience belongs to the institution, ‘corrupt, and riddled with corruption’, for which you sold out Christ (your conscience) when you freely promised or vowed obedience at ordination.

Not one of you Christ-betrayers followed conscience when it came to the rape of children by your colleagues; instead, you whining, self-pitying hypocrites and deceivers followed the self-protecting directives of the dark institution you bow down before.

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@ 4:26
Exactly. The clerical fraternity kept their mouths shut, and heads down, staying stum, when it came to child rape by their colleagues and it’s cover up by bishops. I listened to a pastoral letter from a bishop calling for justice charity and peace quoting Vatican 2 Church in the Modern World document. This from an institution that couldn’t give a damn when it comes to justice, charity or concern towards victims/survivors of church abuse. The clerical fraternity has a major credibility problem regardless of their religious guff. Actions speak far louder than words. What else was covered up?

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Perhaps the priests should move temporarily into the bishop’s palaces so that the super presbyteries can be used exclusively to house Ukrainian refugees for the duration.

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@ 5:13

What lies? Point out the lies in my comment. Maybe you need to get a grip on the uncomfortable facts concerning the clerical fraternity.

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4.26: Hi Magna Crack: “..Have more tea, dearie..” You were found out years ago and were sent packing by this blog in an embarrassing, totally discredited and ignominious way because of your foul mouthed, hate inciting invective. Your style hasn’t changed. Just to be clear: I owe my conscience to God, not Larne. Yes, to GOD, not Larne. Magna, cop on…You, on the other hand, don’t have a conscience. We know one fact for sure: You WON’T be allowed accommodate any refugee. Nope. Your past behaviour prohibits you ever having any person or family close to you. God bless our good priests.

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5.18: My conscience isn’t compromised. No way. My parents inculcated very high morals and principles into all of us. Yes, Magna was and is famous for his hate inciting invective. Absokutely. Think about it.

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6:11:
You keep telling us your parents inculcated high morals and principles into you. Did seminary training have any input into your moral development as an adult?

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Why are you ducking the legitimate point made by the poster at 4.06? He or she correctly stated that priests did not follow their consciences when it came to the sexual abuse of children by their colleagues. Conscience, in this matter, demanded that these priests be reported to the authorities for their crimes, but not one priest anywhere in the world did, including high-ranking priests at the Vatican.

So, how can you credibly claim that priests follow conscience?

Stop prevaricating.

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6.07 Great clarity to your comment “ Helen.” You are one hundred percent accurate. Some have done so since the tsunami of information became available. Bill Mulvihill

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“ Helen” Father Bruno Mulvihill ( no relation) tried to have Brendan Smith stopped. In my opinion , subsequent to his leaving the priesthood, “ they” had him murdered in Germany ( car crash… yea)

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Helen, bishops worldwide were instructed by the Vatican to cover up CSA. It was going on in the Institutional church for centuries.

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I have great admiration for Fr Bruno Mulvihill, at 6.14. He is one of the very few priests in modern times with any thing approaching moral courage and Christlike principles. Nevertheless, he should have reported Brendan Smith to the police for his wicked crimes.

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I agree, at 6.20. Roman Catholic bishops and priests dealt with the rape of the most vulnerable, children, by obeying the canonical decree that this vile crime be treated, on pain of excommunication, with the utmost secrecy. And, for a very long time, it was handled in this cowardly, self-serving, self-protecting way, until events caught up with the institutional church and it was forced (yes, forced) by secular media to change tack. Isn’t it ironic that the so-called godless media had more moral conscience on this terrible matter than the priests who would claim to have been trained in moral casuistry?

I used to be a practising Catholic, but no longer. I think anyone who continues to support RC bishops and priests is guilty of a grave moral travesty.

I agree with the poster at 4.06 on the point that priests traded in personal conscience in return for ordination to a disgraced and discredited priesthood. It is almost comical to hear posters claim that priests owe to conscience. Ironically, these posters are correct: priests do owe to conscience, but do not heed it.

They have had their reward. Priesthood.

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6.31: I studied for 4 years before entering seminary. Yes, I give thanks to God for what my parents taught me – principles, values and attitudes which I carry still today. Coming from a background of having very little materially, we were shown the importance Christian kindness and caring for those who had less. I can’t see how you have difficulty with this reality in my life. No church documents forbid me from acting like Christ. If I act un-Christ like, that’s my fault, not that of the Church. I am responsible for the good moral decisions I have to make.

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8:07
Stop trying to manipulatively claim I have difficulty with what values your parents taught you. Did you make a promise of obedience to your bishop? Do bishops make a promise of obedience to the Pope? Fundamentally, Christianity is an interaction between one person and another. It is how I interact or relate to another human being, no matter who, and whether I treat another human being as another Jesus Christ-(love of neighbour). The treatment of survivors of institutional church abuse contemptuously or by gaslighting or re-traumatizing is the antithesis of Christianity. It is happening regardless of whether you or your fraternal colleagues want to acknowledge it. It is a pity so many members of the clerical fraternity don’t take church laws documents or teachings more seriously.

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Anon at 4.55. You’re right. He’s back and immediately repeats his former ugliness. Nothing new. Same old, same old caca from a class act idiot. We know his past all too well. Let’s hope Pat will bin him as he did before.

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7.38 The man who designed/ architect of Maynooth College used as his template a French Military Barracks : Military, Police, Clergy. The dysfunction is to a man and his bishop ever replicated and repeated; “Do you promise respect and obedience to me and my successors?” “Yes” the ordinand replies….and again the pattern is repeated. I wonder does/did Bishop Buckley include that in his “illicit” ordinations…….with regard to the discussion on Anglican orders recently: Cranmer was “lawfully and validly ordained, every Anglican bishop since in RCC parlance is validly but unlawfully ordained. All idiotic!!!! Give me Goldsmith for such sophistry.

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8.53
That’s not what Apostolicae curae says. It says they are not valid and not licit.
I don’t agree.

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10.28: You most certainly have difficulty appreciating my comments and my understanding of what I know in conscience before God to be true and what, in Christian and moral conscience I must do, all underpinned by my Catholic faith, beliefs and teachings. Simple as. QED..

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11:31

Silly comment. I’m as catholic as you, for probably a lot longer.
I didn’t make a promise of obedience to a bishop so I have no fears of being canceled or having my role or livelihood as a priest jeopardized if I speak out , challenge or not follow the bishops orders. Bishops followed orders of Popes in hiding CSA. This circular toxic covert mess, in recent times,raised its ugly head in the mid 80’s in America and continues to do so in other catholic countries to this day.

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I have observed the Blog all day. I do not intend to enter into text conversation with the usual detractors here; in terms of my person or contributions. “ Martin” in his comments has a right old go; let me say again; no children on RCC property. None. That is a lesson of what is now historical record ; it is not an assassination of any priest of today; however, because of that history, that organisation cannot be trusted for the sake of even one child. A picture of the Parochial House Armagh appears today. In that house horrendous things were done, the occupants cannot but have known that Mc Quillan walking children upstairs at the end of the school day was not cause for alarm. They did know. To “ Martin” and many; mark my words in the next few years, a new cohort will come forward to tell of their abuse by personnel of the RCC; so deep will be their revulsion at the posturing of the RCC in Ireland at this time. Suit Eamonn Martin and Co to offer the thousands of Irish women and children for years now some accommodation; wouldn’t work, they would not go near such an offer; too well versed. Bishop Pat, the Blog today was/is an odious outing.

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Yes, Bill. I think your prediction is bang on the money. The unchanged, unrepentant clerical attitudes we see on here indicate nothing has really changed and this can only be reflected in ongoing disgrace.

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https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/after-morrier-conviction-questions?s=r
After Morrier conviction, will Vatican investigate allegation’s handling?
“Former Franciscan University chaplain Fr. David Morrier was sentenced to five years probation and a lifetime of sex offender registration Friday, after pleading guilty in a Jefferson County, Ohio, courtroom to one count of sexual battery. The Vatican ordinarily waits for the conclusion of a state criminal process before conducting a formal canonical trial, but with Morrier sentenced, such a trial could soon begin.
Unless the priest seeks laicization voluntarily, he will likely face canonical charges for several serious delicts, or canonical crimes:
violating the seal of confession,
solicitation of sexual contact in the confessional,
absolving an “accomplice” in a sexual sin (this phrase is a technical term in canon law, and does not imply complicity on the part of his victim),
and abusing both his office and a spiritual relationship, to coerce and manipulate his victim into sexual contact “committed by force or threats.”
Given the circumstances, and the number of charges against him, Morrier will almost certainly be dismissed from the clerical state at the conclusion of a Vatican process.
But the priest is not the only one who could face a canonical investigation. Morrier’s ecclesiastical superiors could also soon be questioned, especially about what they knew, and when they knew it.”

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Not sure it is very moral of PB to pressure people into taking refugees. It’s been a hatefest on here today.

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Why are you posting as anonymous then and calling yourself Garngad Lad @7.14pm Pax.

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As a former priest in Armagh, I actually agree with numerous points raised today. I left because of a desire to live a better life. Doesn’t that sound ironic? In my view, the outside is a facade. Much change is needed.

Younger clergy are literally calling the shots. Not to mention what they get up to in their spare time…

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Ex CC: Now that you’ve “left”, I’d be interested to know to what extent your views on the basic tenets of Christianity may have changed. What are your present views on the validity of the RCC, Christianity, and religious beliefs in general?
MMM

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In an earlier post today BP you referred to RC bishops/priests as Christian leaders. I’m not too sure they are deserving of either being called Christian or leaders. They have forfeited that privilege.

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MMM, where art thou, today of all days? Have you nothing whatever to say on the subject of priests’ moralising to the rest of us on housing Ukranian refugees while making all sorts of excuses, like Martin at 11.58, for NOT themselves providing, in their own spacious and luxurious piles, accomodation for these people?

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Saw a leaflet in pews re Church collection for Caritas International on 26th to 27th March in respect of Ukraine refugees.
What’s exactly is Caritas international? 🙄🤷‍♂️

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Follow up to my earlier post.
Its another name for ‘trocaire’ in Ireland as I looked around re caritas international under heading of ‘Ireland’.

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Patsy I wonder if the Orange Order/Lodges will open any of its halls up for the refugees? They don’t seem the tolerant type.

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Rumanians in chateaux noeleaux or larne will make no difference to the church as a W hole. It is humanity that has failed. Agendas sub agendas and whatever else. Of course these people must be supported but what about those in our own communities who have been victimised by those in the valley of the peeping windows Holistic approach needed

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I know some pastors who made their church houses homes to others less fortunate than themselves many years ago already. They live simply and modestly. They are committed to the poor, hungry and the addicted.
This is the main reason why I began to ponder ministry from a young age; as I grew in my faith I saw the kingdom of heaven to be visible in the ordinary things of life. God can be present in the pain and the suffering of the others, in the lonely, the hungry and the addicted. We have to work at it, though, together — together as people of love. Love is the strand which holds all things together. Love endures all things… (some more patiently than others 🙄).
God can be present even in the middle of the messed up situations —- that’s what the Incarnation is about, isn’t it?
The treasure of heaven is in the poor; the hungry, hurt, afraid and abandoned.
“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me…’ ”
— Matthew 25: 35: 36

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The Ukrainians wouldn’t want to live with Amy or his adm in Armagh. Two insufferable men who know more about taking peoples money than they do about following Jesus.

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