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IS THERE A LINK BETWEEN THE GREEK GODDESS ARTEMIS AND THE DEVELOPMENT THE CULT OF MARY IN CHRISTIANITY?

Link to dissertation

Carla_Ionescu_Dissertation_Manuscript.pdf (1.992Mb)

Below is the abstract of a doctoral dissertation by Carla Ionescu, linking The Greek goddess Artemis with the development of the cult of Mary in Christianity.

“Tradition states that the most popular deities are Apollo, Athena, Zeus and Dionysius

These divinities played key roles in the communal, political and ritual development of the Greco-Roman world.

This work suggests that this deeply entrenched scholarly tradition is fissured with misunderstandings of Greek and Ephesian popular culture, and provides evidence that clearly suggests Artemis is the most prevalent and influential goddess of the Mediterranean, with roots embedded in the community and culture of this area that can be traced further back in time than even the arrival of the Greeks.

In fact, Artemis reign is so fundamental to the cultural identity of her worshippers that even when facing the onslaught of early Christianity, she could not be deposed. Instead, she survived the conquering of this new religion under the guise of Mary, Mother of Jesus.


Using methods of narrative analysis, as well as review of archeological findings, this work demonstrates that the customs devoted to the worship of Artemis were fundamental to the civic identity of her followers, particularly in the city of Ephesus in which Artemis reigned not only as Queen of Heaven, but also as Mother, Healer and Saviour.

Reverence for her was as so deeply entrenched in the community of this city, that after her temple was destroyed, and Christian churches were built on top of her sacred places, her citizens brought forward the only female character in the new ruling religion of Christianity, the Virgin Mary, and re-named her Theotokos, Mother of God, within its city walls.


The fundamental position of this work is that a fusion took place between the ancient worship of Artemis in Ephesus, and the elevation of Mary to Theotokos, and that this fusion is not a result of the church-initiated action to convert the Ephesians, but rather the Ephesians forcing the early church to accommodate their traditions of Artemis by reshaping and reinterpreting the authority and responsibilities of the Virgin Mary”.

REDSEEDS BLOG

ARTEMIS of  EPHESUS  was the black multi-breasted Goddess also known as ‘she who flowed with milk and honey’. She was a Goddess unlike any other and was closely connected to the earlier Goddess, Cybele. The Ephesians were well known across the Greco-Roman world for their utter devotion to the goddess Artemis Ephesia. They built and dedicated a magnificent temple to her which became one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. She was worshiped by her citizens for over a thousand years as their virgin Queen, their saviour, mother of mothers and their midwife of life, death and fertility. Her turret crown  represented her role as guardian and protector of the city and all who dwelt in it. Her many breasts are mysterious….. eggs, bees eggs, acorns, bull testicles, figs  ? Whatever they are they all symbolise the fertility of the Goddess. Her blackness is possibly connected to a black meteorite as the Goddess was said to have fallen from the sky. Her predecessor Cybele was worshipped in the form of a black stone. According to legend, the first statue of Artemis was a black meteoric stone worshipped by the Amazons.

Less than thirty years after the destruction of Artemis’ temple, Ephesus was given a new virgin mother, Mary the Mother of God, in 431 CE. The city was rededicated to her and to this day, it remains a major pilgrimage site. However when the early Christian Church first arrived in the city there was great social tension for the loss of the people’s Goddess and it is said that the people were both determined and allowed to shape the Virgin Mary with the love, myths and ceremonies they had showered on their beloved Artemis Ephesia. The Black Madonna is often found in locations that were once pagan shrines to Artemis of Ephesus, Cybele, and other goddesses….. and so they became one. These two feminine energies represent the archetypal Mother of all Mothers, the forever evolving ancient  power of the feminine force………….I AM EVOLVING

PAT SAYS

One of the reasons Christian “believers” get a bad press is because of their closed mindedness to the sciences and knowledge in general.

We Christians MUST admit that many of the beliefs and practices we now have were taken from people we arrogantly call “pagans.”

Today, we are much more pagan than were the ancient Greeks and Egyptians.

MARY

I love the Mary of the New Testament, the servant, not the goddess.

The wife and mother of Nazareth – the one responsible for the wine at Cana.

The younger woman going to help her oldest cousin Elizabeth in her confinement.

The heart broken mother who stood at the cross when all the others had fled.

Men created the cult of The Blessed Virgin Mary.

Those men say that even though Jesus Himself had to die, Mary never died.

The same men who say that Mary always remained a virgin and ignore the New Testament reference to the brothers and sisters of Jesus.

VIRGINITY

And these men are all hung up on her virginity.

Surely, her motherhood of Jesus is more important than her virginity?

Mary has been used by churchmen for hundreds of years to keep women in their place and condemn them for their non-virgin activities.

I think the term Saint Mary gives Mary the credit for being what she was – a human being who said “Yes” to God.

Whereas the men who have used Mary to control women have their rosaries all over women’s ovaries.

174 replies on “IS THERE A LINK BETWEEN THE GREEK GODDESS ARTEMIS AND THE DEVELOPMENT THE CULT OF MARY IN CHRISTIANITY?”

May our Blessed Mother touch your heart, Pat! Mary stands at rhe heart of the history of God. Through her “fiat” – HER YES – we have God-with-us in Jesus Christ. If we remain close to her heart, she leads us to Jesus. People venerate her not as a goddess, but as MOTHER OF GOD. Rightfully, Mary has a unique place in Christian prayer and spirituality. We rarely ever think abiut Mary without being brought to Jesus, her son, our Lord and God. Ad Jesu per Maria. Let us not denigrate this great woman, Mary.

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@ 9:56am
Mary is the ‘Mother of God’ she is the Mother of God the Son who is the second Person of The Holy Trinity, He was True God and True Man. I take it you don’t believe in The Trinity.

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10:25 I hope 9:56 doesn’t believe in the Trinity and comes back to debate you. Simply because I love watching people tied up in knots and utterly utterly confused.

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10. 25,if God is eternal and Mary isn’t, then she cannot, possibly, be the mother of God.

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9.46
To be fair to Alan, the Council of Ephesus in 431 declared Mary theotokos, the bearer of God. There is a nuance of a difference between that and its Latin translation, mater Dei, the phrase that stuck in Latin Christianity.

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@ 11:19: 10:25 Anon won’t be utterly confused. To achieve that position would remain modicum of understanding of the nature of the debate. Not gonna happen!

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Correction to 6:25.
Would REQUIRE a modicum of understanding. Predictive text typo!

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Anon at 9.48am
Indeed, had visited that island many years ago before it developed into a full blown expensive tourist island.
Beautiful island, one of good few beautiful islands in Greece.
Paros, Santorini and ios, Crete as well are stunning in terms of scenery and viewing etc.

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Sorry not on topic but didn’t see it. Mary I is a glorified convent school. Eamonn is a good guy great integrity and intellect but wasted there. Take a look at the jokes he is surrounded by. What william said is true. They train the children of teachers to be teachers

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+Pat, this blog about the cult or devotion to Mary deserves wider, perhaps parallel considerations. By this I refer to the fact that much of the Christian narrative has its origins in older traditions and beliefs: the pagan gods of Osiris- Dionysus and Mithras were worshipped hundreds of years before Christ. Human sacrificial offering, virgin birth etc etc all feature in pre Christianbeliefs. Christianity seems but an amalgam of its predecessors.
Christianity, in relation to human development, is a relatively young belief system. It contains elements of previous beliefs handed on orally at a time before historical record keeping.
MMM

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MMM at 1:18, not long ago I made the acquaintance of the wonderful Jewish Study Bible. Besides the new insights I was expecting I was a bit embarrassed to realize belatedly that of course the reason three figures appeared to Abraham at Mamre in Genesis 18 was a longstanding tradition of other ancient near Eastern gods than Yhwh being escorted by two escorts.

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@11:24. Thanks. The more one learns about the historical origins of religious beliefs and other religious traditions the more one gains a sense of perspective. As a seminarian in the early 1960’s we “studied” comparative religions. I hyphenated “studied”: it was simply looking at them from perspective of their errors in comparison to the “one holy true RCC!”
I’m no expert on the matter, but have seen enough to realise the dubious foundations of my childhood religion. And that’s in addition to the sheer incomprensibility of it all.
If this alleged God loves us, ……..well he has, in the past, and now, an odd, nay, well, idiotic way of showing it.
Oh, I get it now: it’s a mystery and I MUST have “faith. ”
MMM

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Artemis was not only the Goddess of chastity that we vow. She was also the goddess of the hunt. The HUNT. Hunt be thy name, hunt be thy game. Upon this calling, we are, the hunted. Chastity is a fools game that can never be won, Poker face.

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Bill: Would you be the same Fr Mulvihill who rightly complained to Killnacrott abbey about Brendan Smyth’s abusive activities in the mid 1970’s which then led to Sean Brady’s notorious silencing of the abused children by swearing them to secrecy. I think that Mulvihill was called Bruno: was that you? If you, then we’ll done.
MMM

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Fr Paul Byrne has registered his spare room with The Red Cross to house Ukrainian refugees. Eamon Martin has offered accommodation and has asked 120 priests across 61 parishes to consider doing the same.

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A lot of Pp will be quaking in their boots. This will expose for once which clergy have secret lovers and their romances will feel the pressure.

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11:04am their friends will continue to lend them their motor homes and mobile homes to keep their personal lives out of sight of curtain twitchers and Ukrainian mammies. You can’t keep a good man down! 😇

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Fr Paul is highly regarded in his parish and I am glad to see his registration, from Derriaghy it will put pressure on the rest to now step up.

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Justice for Fr Alan Griffin RIP. Elsie in Westminster and the CofE Diocese of London hang your heads in shame. I hope and pray his family will now take this shower to the cleaners and through the courts. Total lack of care, charity and above all justice. A note to all clergy – your bishops could easily treat you the same way as poor Fr Alan.

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@7.50am Not sure what your point is regarding Fr Griffin. It’s not relevant to the topic today and not relevant to this blog. Let the dead rest.

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9:46am. Yes, Bishop Pat, we want to know what happened to Fr Griffin. No Soul Rests in Peace until Justice is Served. In the meantime we pray for him and for those who genuinely cared for him.

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+London refuses to deal with the anger and hurt of her clergy who knew Alan Griffin. The case is truly shocking on many levels and I was referred to your blog by a RC priest friend. I am sure you will help us raise this case because the fear is that Lambeth Palace and +London are keen to sweep this under the carpet. To conclude the RC Archdiocese of Westminster is equally culpable with manu questions left unanswered.

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He was accused of having unprotected sex with men while knowing his hiv positive status. He is no different to the belfast priest who is running round with young belfast homosexuals and also targets seminarians.

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@12.17pm You are just as ignorant as the false accuser of Alan just to solely focus on his hiv status. There is no proof whatsoever that Alan was having sex with anyone after his diagnosis. The Coroner stated that he was hiv undetectable so go and research that one please. Too many ignorant people jump to wrong ill informed conclusions. Sadly it was those same false conclusions that cost Fr Alan his life. May he now find peace with God.

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But….this Fr Griffin, once an unmarried CofE clergyman, then an RC priest, may have been urbane, kind, gentle, nice etc. However, he was evidently engaging in sexual activity – which led to him becoming HIV positive – in direct contravention of the teaching and expectations of both those churches. particularly for clergymen / priests who take a promise of celibacy. So, please, do stop making him out to be some misunderstood saint. He was systematically living a lie in both churches. If he was such a great guy, then he should have been honest and upfront and gone off and done something else. There is no virtue living a lie. There is only virtue in honesty and transparency. Okay, + Pat does what he does, but at least he is honest and transparent about it. That I can respect. The likes of Fr Griffin I can’t have any respect for. In very significant areas of his life he lived a lie. Sorry to be so black and white about this, but I’ve had enough of us making excuse for priests who live a lie.

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Can’t say I’m surprised that you prefer to think of Our Blessed Lady as a wife and mother which She was, but after Her Glorious Assumption She is The Queen of Heaven and deserves our highest veneration. However you like the Anglican heretics would call Her St. Mary. That’s the danger of people who start up their own sects and fall into heresy, Mary Immaculate Mediatrix of all Graces pray for us, and for poor Patsy.

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For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 2:5

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@ 9:24 am
You could almost be the deceased arch-heretic Paisley you sound just like him. ‘All generations shall call me blessed’, except the proddy heretic’s and unfortunately others on their way to join them. It might be better for you to join your sect with Martyrs Memorial you’d be very much at home with them. Immaculate Queen of Heaven pray for them.

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I honour Mary as the mother of Jesus. I do not believe she is a goddess.

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9.24: Pat, you’re playing semantics by quoting this passage. Of course we all know that Jesus is the one mediator…Honouring the mother of Jesus – MARY – does not diminish or lessen Jesus as THE mediator. Mary, as Mother, always brings us to her Son. Always. I visited a Church of Ireland recently for a funeral…How horribly empty, cold, unwelcomung: no warmth, no iconography of any kind, no holy water, no candles lighting. All cold, Even THE prayers for the deceased, cold as ice…What a great Catholuc tradition we have of praying with and to Mary, Mother, comforter, protector, spirit filled, always of GOD, loving of her son, which is all she wants of us. So, Mary, Mother of God, keep us with Jesus. Pray for us.

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As Catholics, we don’t pray to Mary. We ask for her to intercede for us.

I disagree with the idea that Protestant churches are cold.

I’ve been in too many Catholic Churches with ghastly plaster statues of Jesus, Mary and various saints that leave me as cold as the plaster the are usually cast from. The depictions represented in the statues are invariably mawkish and kitsch, appealing to a popular piety that is as shallow as the thinking that allows these abominations in our chapels in the first instance.

That we call God father and Mary Mother causes a lot of confusion in the minds of most catholics and although a great many of us would acknowledge that she is not a goddess – our practices would appear to indicate otherwise.

I watched a recent video of Robert N virtually begging the bishops of Ireland to ‘accept’ a replica statue of the BVM at Fatima. He spoke of this bloody thing as if it was another incarnation of God him/herself.

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I agree with you about the coldness of many Protesrant churches.

A deceased priest friend of mine told the Dean of Westminister that his church was the greatest example of the “Real Absence”.

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This appeared in a blog on the feast of the Annuncation
25/03/2023
Exactly 9 months before Christmas the Church celebrates the Annunciation of the conception of Jesus who from this day is in the world experiencing the same bodily development that has been undergone by all of us but not remembered as our embryonic brains were not fully grown during those first months of life. This experience is also known by all mammals. Jesus is truly a human being with the important exception, sinlessness; his developing body is part of Mary’s who has also not known sin.
This mystery of the Incarnation is a humility on the part of God, whom we are shown to be Father Son and Holy Spirit, that is totally out of love for his creation and particularly for his own image and likeness which we all are. I cannot fully grasp the significance of what I write for I am but a sinful man, less than dust of God’s Universe.
Scripture records some of God’s dealings with humanity. All of these dealings are guidance, failure and then forgiveness. Guidance to show us the way to live and then forgiveness for our failings. Gabriel greets Mary and reveals that Elizabeth is also pregnant and the two together enable us to say:
“Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Dear Lord let my words not be a presumption but a sincere belief that will rule my being and behaviour. Guide my prayers and thought let me have a modicum of your infinite humility saying : Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen

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10:04 It would be mawkish twaddle whatever day it appeared but you could do us all a favour and tell us how you visited 2023 and what year you are in now since you refer to 2023 as past.

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@ 9:48am

You honour Our Blessed Lady as the Mother of Jesus which is correct. Please remember Jesus is God, without her fiat there would be no redemption. She is not a godess but as His Mother She is due hyper dulia great veneration.

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We cannot say that there would have been no redemption without Mary. God could have chosen another way if Mary had said no.

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C’mon +Pat!
Surely God WOULDN’T have asked her knowing beforehand she’d refuse!
Or maybe she had a “supercharged ” free will….?
But if she had refused would God have then removed her “conceived without sin” status?
And after refusal, how would she have fared at the Pearly Gates after death?
A fellah could tie himself in knots with all these deep theological conundrums!
MMM

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But God let’s all kinds of things happen even though he knows they are going to happen beforehand. ie Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
I don’t know how God would have reacted if she said NO.
God is a God of wrath as well as well as love ❤️

And he has been known ti be very violent at times 🤧

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Asmodeus at 9:26, excellent comment. Your point in particular about Father/God, Mother/Goddess in practice, is spot on.

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There is no doubt that Mary is a very important person in the Christian story but the whole Marian tradition is OTT.

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@ 12:08pm

Oh! Patsy, Patsy you’re desperate altogether. I’m sure you’re a decent oul skin just a bit wondered and confused. I wish you the best and I’m going to say The Memorare for you.
Evviva Maria!

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Elsie believed the tittle tattle given to him from the Anglicans which turned out to be unproven and false. Bishops tend to listen, all too easily, to clergy tittle tattle which, more often than not, is false. It is simply unforgiveable that Fr Alan had one year of mental torture not knowing what he was being accused of and who was his accuser. The snitch who peddled these lies about Fr Alan jumped to one of many fake conclusions that because he was dining out with a young man he must be a rent boy. This poor man who died a horrible death needs and deserves justice.

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Alan’s case is not too dissimilar to that of Christopher Salford MLA, and the continued speculation regarding his sad death.

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This very tragic case of Father Alan Griffin raises many issues:
1) Father Griffin was a priest of the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham. Not the Archdiocese of Westminster.
2) It was a historical issue with the C of E Diocese of London when he was a vicar.
3) There is too much pointing the finger at people without any evidence. Tittle, tattle. There are dangers in hounding people. This poor man died because of prejudice.
4) Churches (particularly the RC) are now damned if the do and damned if they don’t. In this case the C of E is damned because the acted on complaints which have since provedto be false.
5) I think some people are getting mixed up with “the Archdeacon of London” which is Church of England and the Archdiocese of Westminster which is RC.
There is an article in the Archbishop Cranmer blog about Fr. Griffin which is worth reading.
Pax
Garngad Lad

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Garngad Lad speaking through his hole as usual. Part one as you wrongly claim that the Ordinariate is not part of Westminster???? Hello!!! They have their own Church given to them in Westminster by Nichols in Warwick Street under Picadillys Neon. They are also present in other RC dioceses in the UK. If Westminster is not involved then why did the Coroner send her report to Nichols. Garngad do your research better in future. 3/10, could do better in his homework and pay more attention to the subject matter in hand.

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Anonymous @ 8.57pm.
The ordinariate is definitely NOT part of Westminster Archdiocese. The ordinarite is aseparate entity like any diocese and you are correct they are present in other dioceses throughout England, Scotland and Wales. Look up their website and see their administration and CURIA. Please go and have a lie down and keep taking your medication.
Pax
Garngad Lad

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10:59am. When you think of the roaring trade that the rent boy & vice industry worldwide are doing with Roman Catholic clergy, it should also not be forgotten that these hirelings also torment targets of spiteful clerical colleagues vis various methods in exchange for payment – easy money for them. Padres Little Pets. Praying for Peace & Justice for Fr Alan Griffin and all victims of wrongdoing.

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Funny how RCs get all upset about Mary. If only they’d all been similarly up in arms about children being sexually abused by priests.

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@ 12:24pm

Patsy has the Coroners report been published yet about Christopher Stalford’s cause of death. I’ve searched the net and can see nothing. Do you think the DUP are keeping it quiet?

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The fact that the police are still investigating (assuming they are still investigating) and that the coroner’s report has been delayed for so long would suggest that there is something not right about the death of David Stalford.

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I can assure you that the police are still investigating, and the Coroners report has been delayed. There are two concerns – was blackmail involved and was a clergyman / priest involved.

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This may not be of popular opinion, but if he was cheating on his wife with men (or one man) then surely he had this coming?
If he had not cheated, then he would not have been in the position to be blackmailed.
Unfortunately all actions have consequences.

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We do NOT know all the circumstances.

He may have been blackmailed?

No human being deserves a tragic death.

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@12 :17pm
Funny how all you haters always revert to abuse stories. All Catholics are up in arms about any abuse of children abused by degenerate priests. We wish them to be punished by the Civil Authorities, not to mention the even greater punishment that awaits them at The Judgement Seat.

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Goodness, it’s almost like you want us to let you forget. Your being up in arms was totally successful in preventing any victims beyond the first one, wasn’t it?

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12:17 True. The Cathbots have no Mercy for anyone, man, woman or child abused by their cohort and gang up to brand victims as liars, make up porky pies about them, Cathbots are experts in passive aggressive intrusion and harassment. Toxic. A criminal organisation – just look at what they hang with. The aul lad in charge of our pastoral council shouts “we are good people” at anyone within earshot & in inappropriate settings. A retired busybody but as they go he’s probably quite harmless apart from being a shameless gossip & purveyor of tall tales on behalf of local clergy. He’s obsessed with the Catholic Church and the GAA!!

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LENTEN AFTERNOON OF REFLECTION

The Dublin Oratory in Formation invites you to A Lenten Afternoon of Recollection. Saturday 2nd April, 2.30pm to 5.30pm. at Saint Kevin’s Church, Harrington Street, Dublin 8. Theme: “The Spirit of Saint Philip Neri”. Director: Fr Francis Gavin.

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12.17: An utterly superfluous comment. Devotion to Mary is very legitimate and it doesn’t stop any of us from speaking out against the horror of abuse, which we have done. A very silly comment. Just open tour ears!!

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The wrongly and unjustly accused who take their lives as they see no other option have to be forgiven in heaven.
Their accusers on the other hand….

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Pat What is your opinion on symbolic gifts or items being brought to the altar at funeral Masses. ? I read today of the sad funeral of a young mother of five who was accidentally shot by her brother. The symbols brought up were a bottle of Jack Daniels , a packet of cigarettes, a bottle of perfume and a family photo. All brought up by her young children.
I don’t know where this custom has come from. I know there has been even worse at some of these
“gangland” funerals. (The song at the Communion was “Baby can I hold you”) I ​think we need to get back to the old idea of a Requiem Mass in church for the repose of the soul of the deceased and have the celebration of life at a secular venue

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If the priest tries to stop me having Britney’s Baby One More Time at my funeral, I’ll come back to life and hammer on the lid of the coffin.

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4:03 another song the clergy don’t like is the Madonna one – Papa Don’t Preach. No doubt they watch Silent Witness on the telly 🥸

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3:34pm you don’t have to go to Dublin to see a gangland funeral. Our Parish Priest and some of his cohort are right funeral thugs prancing about at such occasions. It is very sad about that young woman and her large young family. In the circumstances, the Jack Daniels and the smokes seemed an unfortunate choice but, hey, each to their own. Priests are agreeing to worse in Churches and Chapels these days. Rest in Peace.

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Pat, I hope you and yours are enjoying the lovely weather we have. It’s long overdue and never lasts enough. Good day to you all. ✌️

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Good suggestion re goddess of mart which needs to be examined.
. ****
Don’t have basic Catholic education but caught up at later age.
******
There are two cults, 1 is rcc and 2nd is cult of Mary.
******
Excessive marianology put me off in various places when I saw one as I dint know why. Maybe I don’t like too much that was devoted to mary thus neglecting Jesus.
*****
Good point re jesus died but not Mary which I hadn’t thought of in the 1st place.
******
Mary wasn’t prominent in the new testament then all of sudden that rcc rated her highly but not St joseph🤔. St Joseph deserve it more cos it was he who protected jesus and fled to Egypt. So in other words, rcc left St Joseph out of limelight if you like as they put Mary instead on spot of limelight.
******
Mary v v rarely spoke in new testament then all of a sudden she’s speaking in various apparitions in various places. Is that Mary in new testament that we know or is it of a demonic origin🤷‍♂️ 🤔.
*****
Why was Mary all of a sudden talkative in various shrines except for Knock as she wasnt in the new testament 🤷‍♂️.
*****
Various marian shrines in her many titles or names is a major money generator for rcc itself. Any scandal involving rcc might impact the incomes in various Marian shrine as it did in knock.
******
Had to agree with pat bec rcc used Mary to control the women. Cos majority of mass goers are women which is quite noticeable in almost every church. Rarely did I see many men in church, very rare.
******
Rcc is dictated top down as decisions are decided from the top to flow down.
****
Rcc used asymmetrical knowledge for themselves but want out money in exchange for nothing aka donations or church collections. That’s a lopsided situation where rcc have so much knowledge of gay priests or bishops or cardinals or their past history which they wouldn’t give it or impart it to ourselves in exchange for our monies. They don’t trust us in secret, other words their lauded secrecy which they emphasised it so much to their priests, bishops etc.
******
In some area in rcc where one Catholic guy who work for a seer (in Ireland) told me expressing some contempt for some old ladies which shocked me.

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Is there a list of Missing or Currently Unaccounted for Clergy somewhere on this Blog that we can add names to?

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Missing, reward not offered; to be returned to the Parochial house to face the parishioners.

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Deaf Guy the True Faithful™️ keep trying to put you off commenting here then you comment something like this. Thank you so much.

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Homeric Hymn 9 to Artemis (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C7th to 4th B.C.) :
“Mousa (Muse), sing of Artemis, sister of the far-shooter (hekatos), Parthenos the virgin who delights in arrows (iokheaira), who was fostered with Apollon. She waters her horses from Meles deep in reeds [a river in Lydia], and swifty drives her all-golden chariot through Smyrna to vine-clad Klaros (Claros) where Apollon god of the silver bow (argyrotoxos), sits waiting for far-shooting delighter in arrows (hekatebolon iokheaira).
And so hail to you, Artemis, in my song and to all goddesses as well. Of you first I sing and with you I begin; now that I have begun with you, I will turn to another song.”

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11.06…. As on the most anthropomorphic feast of the Christian calendar and entirely ignored for its richness of meaning; Wait . Then see….which is what the Nazarene wanted to gift to all he encountered!!!

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If Paul Byrne is all the IT can find as advertising for the subject, things are much worse than I perceived. Then of course, his very plastic satchel is his insurance. Coalisland has now a pastor of integrity… whose satchel is of precious leather and of scriptural content… if not Sanskrit text!

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I am not sure Bishop Pat realises how he has been duped in recent months…. And of course he then unwittingly dupes. But he is a bishop … and accepted ontological nonsense!

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No Bill, I don’t realise I have been duped and would like you to show me.
I don’t like to dupe people.
I’m not so sure I have accepted the ontological nonsense.
And I hope I have never tried to give the impression I was superior to anyone else. If I have I am very sorry.

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6.31 You are a very good man/ human being Pat. As good as they get really( I don’t like the sundering of priests as I have always stated; but that is what bishops do .) I pay forensic attention to what happens here and the dynamic changed under the influence of Robert Nugent, you were actually blogging about the permissions he granted you. I shall not explicitate on this subject on social media. For the attacks that may follow; I am a man of good conscience, your maligning of my name is pointless to me… whatever about the impressionable or Curial offices !!!!

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Have I maligned you, Bill? Why would I do that when I regard you so highly?

If you mean, I have allowed critical comments about you – that was done in the interests of free speech and was not my attacking you on anyway.

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What’s all this about being duped, ey girls? It sounds a very nasty business to be in…
When in Rome; do as the Romans do lol 😂 🤣
Buf•​foon·•ery is best left to buffoons; is it not? 🙄 😊 🤔 🤫 🤥 🤡 🎤🎪 🤣

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6.31: Yes Pat, William needs to give substance to his accusations. What does he mean by you being duped and you duping others? It can only be in reference to the theological concept of being “ontologically” changed at ordination.

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Just going back a little to yesterday’s blog, here’s a clip of a sacred Mormon temple ceremonyhttps://youtu.be/6udew9axmdM

Mormons can only enter the temple upon receipt of a temple pass; it is something which is only received after one shows real dedication and considered to “trustworthy” by experienced LDS ward Elders (a Ward is similar to a Deanary in a Diocese). Usually you have to be a member for around ten-years before a temple pass and it must be signed by their ward bishop.
They take temple rituals and ceremonies very seriously and do not talk openly about them.
I like the Mormons because they are always happy and upbeat.
Incidentally, they don’t believe in the Hyperstatic union • Homoousios • {the Father and Son being one in essence}.
Hyperstatic union being a term of the Christological doctrine formulated at the first ecumenical council, held at Nicaea in 325, which affirms that God the Son and God the Father are of the same substance (remember: in theology and philosophy, substance literally means essence—the underlying reality of something).
They also believe that the atonement took place in the Garden of Gethsemane (the Agony in the Garden…) rather than on the Cross.
Personally, I believe this makes a fair bit of sense; after all, the atonement is intrinsically linked to the Passion. Christ suffered for you and I—for humanity. That’s the important thing to remember, he suffered for humanity. However, scripture strongly indicates Our Lord and Saviour gave up His spirit on the Cross, signifying the completion of His earthly mission. However, Mormons, technically, aren’t wrong here—He suffered and died for us, this they still affirm and believe…
Then again, the whole Pauline concept of the Salvation of the Cross is brought into a different understanding.
I suppose when we take the Cross of Christ out of the main picture the impact and significance of the Resurrection is also viewed in a different light, too. Maybe this is not a good thing since the New Testament authors were up-front about the rightful place of the Cross; indeed, St. Paul is clear the Cross of Christ is central in the God’s plan and the economy of Christian Salvation.
—
“28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” 29 Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.”
— John 19: 28 – 30

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hypostatic union means union of divine and human natures in Jesus Christ, and comes from Chalcedon 451 not Nicaea 325

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Yes, you are right @ 5:39pm, thank you.
Yes, it’s a bit of a tricky one, that. A bit like the concept of the Immaculate conception.
Nicea 325AD was the first official gathering of these discussions on the nature of Jesus being the Christ.
The Father and the Son being one, in essence, is theologically different from Christ’s humanity and divinity being one in the Hyperstatic union.
“Homoousios is a Greek word from which we get the word ‘Same substance/nature’, as used in the Nicene Creed.

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5.43…..Pat, my reference to ……..’ Your maligning of me” is directed at a cohort of your Blog readers……not at you…….one forgets that not everyone pays attention to word/words and context here.

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Never mind missing priests, what about our Parish Madonna – the rising price of fuel ⛽️ hasn’t slowed her canter.

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I too have spotted the dynamics changing with Pat and the blog since Nugent entered the scene. I found the whole thing offputting. The style, tone and language of the blog has become rather revealing about the persons in question.

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I read somewhere that scholars think Mary was twelve or thirteen? But surely older when she conceived?

Isn’t the cult of Mary deeply entrenched with the cult of virginity and the early fathers anti sex obsession.

I struggle with Assumption and Ascension – narrated rather like a rocket going up in the sky which surely would have been observed.

Therefore virgin birth, Ascension, Assumption reflects a primitive way to convey truths impossible to grasp by pure reason because these verities defy reason.

Could it be that Jesus’ bones and Marys lie buried in Israel?

Most clergy I know when pushed or asked to explain don’t know a scoobie and appear to say ‘buggered if I know.’

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The grave of St Peter was discovered some time ago in Israel. God knows who the bones in St Peters belong to. Constantine’s valet?

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Someone, a later beatified nun I think, supposedly “revealed” where Mary finally lived, and is reputedly buried nearby, tomb unknown. It is known as Meriyani, about 4/5 miles from Selcuk/Ephesus Turkey. A couple of popes have visited there. I went there about 20 years ago while visiting Ephesus.
MMM

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The most recent Biden warmongering comment is the reason Putin has done what he has done. The USA border must stop at the delineated international understanding. I don’t want to speak Russian but I prefer my Dublin/ London English to what Biden and his predecessors ( minus Trump) have in mind !!!!! The Russians love their children too. For the record , the fresh prince of bel air has made a stand for chivalry….maybe Prince Phillip does have a successor! His wife is a lucky person for such risk and display of anger. To be funny has become so insulting… time it stopped !!!!

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Didn’t he really insult his wife in front of an audience and on live television? Maybe a little more restraint with words, and actions, is a sensible thing?
It looked like a hard slap in the face as well… Ouch! 🤔

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6.25Violence against women was verbal at that ceremony. Chivalry and variance… he was entirely in order.

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5.43: William, your accusation of being duped by Pat is nonsensical and does not stand up to scrutiny. Robert Nugent hasn’t commented for quite some time and when he did, he challenged a “merciless” agenda by Pat and commenters. I don’t believe Pat gave Robert his way!! RN got much space on this blog but often seemed conflicted and confused and had no interest in answering legitimate questions put to him. Robert is continuing to present his You Tube videos. However, William, you make some of the craziest comments on this blog. Noticeably, you are rarely positive or inspiring. Your world seems all too lonely, serious and miserable. You write in a very cryptic, often incoherent way. Try to express your points by using focused language and try to make relevant points which deal with the subject of the day. Your mood swings are obvious, your mind unsettled. I suspect commenting on this blog is an outlet for your unresolved anger issues since departing the presbyterate. However, you should solve such personal matters in a more private forum. Your accusations against Pat and others require simpler explanations than the unnecessary complexity of your rants so far today.

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7.54 Find yourself a good maze or play a taxing board game. I suggest you disengage from my narrative since it is not a thing go growth for you. Stay away from drains and find a few radiators. Your triangulation in this your comment is disingenuous in the extreme. Splitting for the simplex!!!!

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Totally agree. I have stopped reading his posts beause there are too many (including corrections of his own posts) and they are boring like Seamus. Unfortunateu DG is going the same way.
Pax
Garngad Lad

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8.29 If you have stopped reading them, why the declaration? Yours are entirely insipid!

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Garngad lad at 8.29

What do u mean by going the same way 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🙄

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You aren’t Aidan Gordon by any chance…or in the payment of Eamonn Martin? Please declare yourself under the umbrellas of such knowledge and care ? You are definitely on overtime in my regard. Tiresome in your unprofessionalism.

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Robert Nugent, I’m still here. I was accused of not answering questions that I hadn’t even SEEN! that was the problem. When I did read comments it was hours or days later and poor anonymous got offended I wasn’t engaging. So I just stopped reading and stayed out. If people want to engage with me then email me or call me. But the nonsense I’m being accused of is beyond stupid. I read blog posts of certain bloggers for 5-15 mins a day and that is it. So there is no point in me commenting on this blog because someone will accuse me of “not engaging” or “running away” “manipulating Pat” or who knows what, when I simply didn’t read their comment.
Sometimes there are reasons people don’t have time. I engage with EVERYONE!. I’ve just decided to stay out of the comments section because I will just end up offending/annoying someone who didn’t get a reply. If I had to keep up with the comments I make I would need to return 5 or 6 times to respond. Why?
Anyway good night. No reply can be taken at face value, I simply didn’t read the comments to reply to,

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9.34: Robert: A totally disingenuous comment. You are spending much time creating your You Tube videos. Well done to you in doing so. But, sadly, your excuses for not engaging are silly. Simply stay away from this blog. You seem to spend hours in creating videos…Stay with that project.

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Akhenaten… it is not just Mary that is rooted in pagen religion. Revelation comes in waves based on our ability to understand

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Always reliable for a sensible comment. I’m afraid I can’t remember who but one of the ancient Pagan authors wrote, ‘The way these Christians carry on, you would think their god was the only one to rise from the dead’.

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Paddy’s rhetoric has changed much of late on the blog. Talk of cults etc is a major diversion. Nugent is a bad influence.

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Bishop Pat,
News emerging that it is likely Altmore Chapel in Pomeroy Parish, Co. Tyrone will close.
How many Ukrainian families will be housed in Pomeroy Parochial Palace?
Get priorities right please!

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Bishop Buckley, Robert Nugget has not appeared here for quite some time without explanation or denigrating comment. I did not comment Saturday or Sunday. Today some denigrating comment appeared about my ‘Rants’ with the question regarding had they stopped. Can you offer an editorial comment on the dynamics at work? Does the Blog goad persons into comment at the whim of Your Lordship ? As for comments on my form and mood Pat, I have drawn my own conclusions. If I choose not to comment, will you call off your dogs please ?

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Robert Nugent has been dealing with family illness and death.
I publish comments as they come in.
I do not have dogs.
Apart from my beautiful Aria and Buzz. They are illiterate.

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8.57 You know what I mean. All human beings, myself included deal/are dealing with issues. Robert Nugget is no more deserving than any of us….no matter what the issue. Again apologetics on your part where silence would have more honour. Saudis bombing the life out of Yemen as we speak,

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8.57 They are not illiterate. Its just you don’t share their world of understanding. I am very serious.

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8.57: Pat, you have no obligation to entertain Wm Mulvihill: none whatsoever. William’s references to Robert are utterly banal, irrelevant and silly. Billeen is behaving like a schoolyard bully. Hope Robert is fine – although he is putting up many videos on You Tube, concentrating on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Maybe Billeen needs to find *his* Robert again..

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9.07: Mulvihill – take an early night for your well being. You are full if angst. Let it not overwhelm you. Ask Our Blessed Mother Mary for help!!

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9.31 If she has any interest , her attentions should be in Ukraine. You silly silly person. She is not interested in you or your needs ! P.S I always have an early night…..get a good book and do the same !

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8.50: William dear, can you do yourself a favour and take a long sabbatical, like the ones you took while in the presbyterate. Maybe a trip down under for some unfinished business might comfort you. Your obsession with being victimised is risible and incredulous. Your narratives are mumbo jumbo and bear little relevance to the issues of the day. You present today as a man at the edge. No one has denigrated you. You are tormenting yourself over undefined personal issues, which as I said earlier, are better dealt with in a more private forum. Your vexatious and disconsolate prose today is very revealing of someone in great inner distress. William, when you left the priesthood, perhaps you should also have ditched any interest or connections you have in church and priests. The very words seem a catalyst for uncontrolled rage and we don’t need a dose of this every second day.

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9.07 Never had a sabbatical……Sean Brady declined my request. Does that matter to you ? Please disengage from interest here ( Mulvihill ) and address your own issues. Sufficiently trained here to recognise your want….

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” Unfinished business” you say…..Concern yourself with Darling Harbour grief and hidden accounts to say nothing of your Rathgar woes. Blog again for some more…..

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10.10: Pat, Mr. Mulvihill has very dark corners. Why tolerate his cynicism and silliness. He’s untrustworthy.

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Billy did you pay back the money that Pat gave you? You did that to other priests too. At least one was smart enough to take your art as collateral. You had no intention of paying it back, did you? 10k is a lot of money to take from someone without any intention to return it. Then you threaten them to give your art back (or else!).
You are the biggest manipulative hypocrite on here.

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9.57 Please explain what you have posited….without the deliberate mystery…..new territory for the Blog. Remember where a crime is committed IP can be traced. Now state what you mean ?

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9.57: A brilliant comment. Superb. That wagonwheel of a Billeen is a sleeveen. Manipulative and Machiavellian to his finger tips. He should get off this blog before he implodes. He’s asking for trouble….seriously.

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I do intent to….but not on your advice. What do people like you do without people like me ?

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Paul Byrne and co have been industrious this evening…….flights to the Southern parts of Africa must be in short supply.

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Pat, when you allow people like William Mulvihill so much time for commenting, they eventually irritate others. Magna did it. These attention seekers end us casualties of their own foolishness. William is making a fool of himself. I believe when commenters like him, Magna and Robert, become unbearable, its time to bid them adieu. Wm. has many unresolved issues today. You should try to advise him wisely. William – listen to wiser people: take time out.

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