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CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS A “NET WINNER” FROM THE GREAT FAMINE.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/08/07/catholic-church-were-net-winners-from-irelands-great-famine-leading-academic-says/

The Catholic Church was a “net winner” from the Great Famine as the urban Catholics who survived it were more likely to be regular Mass-goers than the largely rural poor who died, enabling the church to increase its influence on the population at large, a prominent academic has claimed.

Prof Breandán Mac Suibhne of National University of Ireland, Galway told the West Cork History Festival in Skibbereen that it was perhaps “vaguely perverse” to suggest the Great Famine assisted Irish Catholicism to become a dominant force in the lives of Irish people, but it did influence how religion impacted on people’s lives.

“As late as the 1970s the figure was like 92 per cent or 93 per cent, but back in the 1830s, the figure for the country, as a whole, was something like 30 per cent so high Mass attendance by Irish Catholics is very much a modern phenomenon and, certainly back in the 1830s, it was nothing like it was in the 1970s.

“For people in these areas, religion was not chapel-oriented and clerically directed devotion like Sunday Mass was not important to them… their religion was one of holy wells, and season festivals, and prayers and priests were important for only a couple of things – Baptism, marriage and death.

“What you get in the 1850s is serious hard-core proselytisers hitting the country in the form of the Redemptorists – these are the storm troopers of Roman Catholicism, ‘Do you reject Satan and his works?’ and they made Confession, Communion and Confirmation rites of passage in Catholicism.”

PAT SAYS

I also heard that many of the country’s Catholic church buildings were built during the famine.

And – how many Catholic bishops and priests died of hunger in the famine?

Then Cardinal Cullen came along and started tge devotional revolution- medals, rosaries relics, novenas etc.

Mass attendance grew from 30% to 90+ %.

While the poor Irish starved to death, their new IRISH GENTRY (clergy) prospered.

And collections and revenues increased.

Talk about making a mint on human misery.

The RCC has always had the knack to turn blood into gold 😢

194 replies on “CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS A “NET WINNER” FROM THE GREAT FAMINE.”

That statistic about mass attendance also disproves the idiocy that Vatican 2 stopped people going to mass. Unless it started in about 1790. 😂

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Regular mass attendance has always been a Catholic tradition. What changed was the definition of ‘regular’. In the late 1800’s the Irish Church, and those places Irish missionaries went to, defined ‘regular’ as weekly. Going to mass weekly thereby became a one century wonder.
If ‘regularly actual meant ‘weekly’ than one of the two words would be redundant.
We can blame Vat II, but in truth what happened was an escape from oppression in which the proverbial ‘baby’ was thrown out with the bath water. The oppression explains the dysfunction, sexual deviance, high horse attitude, alienation and mental health issues across society.

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Unfortunately that time passed you by…
Westminster Cathedral used to be packed… nowadays is halfway empty!!!
RC priests, bishops and Cardinals reputation is crashing through Peadophile priests, rape victims, sexual abuse towards children…and living as gay couples!!!
I don’t have anything about gay community… but live with dignity for whom you are… not be a hypocrite!!
Pope said:”Who am I to judge those who join to search God!!!”
But they are not looking for God because they do not believe in God and they say it openly in Mass, simply to live as gay couples in luxury and authority!!!

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Excellent and interesting post Pat.
Funny enough a biology lecturer I once had was talking about the famine and told us pre-famine that pre-marital and extra-marital sex was very common in the poorer of society. The snootier “strong farmers” were more prudish and likely to go to mass. Worse was that after the famine the RCC basically made it clear the famine was divine providence punishment for the Irish for riding too much. Grim stuff but it filled the pews.
Thankfully tolerance and liberalism are now de rigeur in Ireland and the RCC are almost toast.

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Pre- and extra-marital intercourse has been common at all periods and in all places. It’s just some people like to pretend it isn’t.

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9.35 RC Made a mint on the back of it in mothers and babies homes and priests calling to houses to shame families into placing pregnant girls in these places, they were collecting free labour for the nuns.

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9.35am it was creepy having clergy do pre marriage course. Now we know why, innocent times back then.

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Boys-o-boys! Who would have thought it? The common Irish were at it like rabbits.
I made this point many years ago, to a social and economic history tutor at Queen’s. Her name was Miriam Daly. She wasn’t pleased. Almost ‘tut-tutted’ her way through the following : ‘Irish girls were known for their purity.’ I nearly laughed. 🙄

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@ 9:44am

Rubbish in those day’s it was a disgrace to have child out of wedlock, the parents just wanted rid of these unfortunate girls and foisted them on to Religious Congregations to deal with them. They had to be fed and kept so had to work for their keep. It was not just Catholic Homes, it was the same in County Homes, Salvation Army,and other non Catholic homes. The parents didn’t pay for anything. In these woke times people don’t understand how it was then. You can’t judge the standards of the past by today’s, where there are no standards at all.

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10.28
You are the one posting rubbish!
A disgrace to have a child out of wedlock? It was NEVER a disgrace, but girls in this situation were made to FEEL disgraced, principally by moralising clergy, including (and especially) by Catholic priests.
As for parents paying nothing for having their unmarried daughters ‘foisted’ on religious so-called ‘care homes’, who the hell do you think financed them, you absolute, ignorant fool? Those same parents, and all the others across Ireland!
As for describing as ‘work’ what those poor girls did in those gulags, you have declared yourself not only a fool, but a liar as well.

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Pregnancy Shaming by Irish Clergy to stick nuns laundries with free labour & babies to sell overseas with false documentssays:

@10.28 people talk about fat shaming these days, clergy went all out to SHAME ordinary families if there was a single pregnant girl in the family home, psychological coercive control was exercised, deliberately induced neighbours to join in. Clergy were not doing this for religious or moral reasons, they saw the financial gain to be made from the girls Work & from trafficking her baby with false documents to rich Irish Americans with family & network connections to Irish clergy. Time Aer Lingus was also sued for facilitating baby trafficking from Irish mother & baby homes. Blood money should always be refunded in the interests of peace & justice.

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10:28 Showing the full depth of cathbot ‘education’ in their immediate attempt to negate the simple fact that people have sex regardless with the other but not incompatible fact that in the past it was a disgrace to have a child out of wedlock.
Of course it was, that’s why they went to England for an abortion. 😆
Another fact: at one time ferry staff used to say if there was a young Irish woman looking stressed alone on the ferry she was going for one of three reasons, and the other two were teacher or nurse training.

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Absolutely. The Irish have a bit of latin passion in us. Love a bit of it. If in any doubt simply visit an Irish nightclub and see the clothes being worn. Our women head Down Under and spend a year solid in the saddle – seemingly it doesnt “count” if they score there – and return as chaste as when they left. Power to them.
The RCC made a serious effort to quench this but ultimately it didnt work.

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The Mission that came to parishes was a money spinner selling medals & rosary beads and the like after the mission mass every evening. Poor People were brainwashed.

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@ 10;50pm
Nonsense! I loved The Holy Mission they were great the Churches were packed and people looked forward to them. It’s people like you today who are brainwashed into blaming The Church for everything.

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11.57: I recall the Missions which we attended as a family along with other viallage families. They were a source of gathering for prayer, singing and also for deepening our faith. But, when village families arrived home we had tea, homebakes and time together. All such occasions are gone, sadly. Not all things from the Church’s past were “bad”. Almost 60 years on I have very cherished memories of these events.

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2pm I don’t, we had to walk for miles and our shoes let in the rain and it soaked through our thin coats. Hard times. We had no money to buy any of the nice things on display. We had a few pence to give the mission and that was it. But we always looked forward to a nice hot cup of tea when we reached home.

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10.50 yes, brainwashed by money mad control freaks. No wonder they need so many accountants and lawyers around them today.

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@ 11:56am
You utter FOOL in those days it was ALWAYS a disgrace to have a child out of wedlock, if it wasn’t why would the family want rid of them. If you don’t believe me, ask dear Patsy who will confirm it,. That’s the way it was at that time you IDIOT🙄

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1.46
Your level of obtuseness is almost impressive.
There is no NATURAL disgrace in having a child out of wedlock; it is just another human biological function.
Feelings of disgrace in these situations are cultural, the result of moral judgements and condemnations by clergy, principally by romanist priests. Were it not for these men, NO woman in Ireland or elsewhere would be in disgrace for having a child out of wedlock.
Think about it for a decade or two. The penny may finally drop.

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What about the Redemptorist who preached missions and serviced desperate housewives! You know who I’m talking Fr

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7.34 Clergy are so promiscuous and confused about their sexuality, head melters, definitely not worth the time or effort. Plenty more fish in the sea.

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Pat, you sure benefited from Catholic education for free…plus your seminary education was free. You also enjoyed all the poor people’s monies and perks while a priest in the Church. You are still benefiting from people’s generosity. You depend on their donations. And that’s fine. No problem but why condemn others for doing likewise? Reflecting on our history the Catholic Church was a powerful force in Irish life and became, in time, far too influential. In being so powerful it also destroyed its central mission: to create communities of Christians as in the early church. While it played a central role in providing heath, education and social outreach services – for which we owe our gratitude – some aspects of Church dominance were destructive, especially in being given control over looking after the “unwanted” and “marginalised”. The legacy in this aspect is one of deep shame. Hindsight through education and much learning will paint a very dark picture but many, many of us are indebted in some way to the Church’s providing education and health. Today the focus for many religious has shifted to social justice across a myriad of areas. Today we are trying to define exactly what our mission should be and how to make our presence relevant at the level of evangelization again and especially towards all who have been and are still excluded, homeless and on the margins. I do not believe that we will ever have high percentages of adherents in our Churches. The pandemic has speeded up the emptying of our Churches by about 10 years. The past wasn’t all bad: the present is challenging: the future very uncertain. A remnant will remain. I am somehow happy with this because it might be the “leaven”, the “light”, the “salt” which Jesus speaks of. Then we can let our socialist, secular governments look after economic, education and health provisions for the nation. The church should be a prophetic church with more people like Br. Kevin, Sr. Stan, Sr. Consilo, Alice Leahy Trust, Fr. McVerry, St.v de Paul, Simon Community, Social Justice Ireland, the Vincentian Partnership. All of these groups can be the archetype response all Christian should aspire to…and the rest of us ust relearn to become true disciples of Christ within our parishes. The days of judging by numbers is gone. Now we need dedicated men and women to choose to walk with those who want to be with us. Provide good, prayerful moments; reflective groups on scripture, theology and spirituality. This is where our parish is focused and have already begun….All I can do is TRUST and HOPE in God and in the good people of our parish, rooted in prayer and the Eucharist.

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11.43pm. A brilliant contribution. Have to agree with everything you say. I wish I was in your parish.🙏

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8.24
A brilliant contribution? You are very impressionable. That post is a lie. How can anyone be grateful to indolent, work-shy clergy and religious for their so-called ‘provision of health and education’ when, in reality, it was the ‘pennies of the poor’ that financed it?
Give credit where it is due. And it isn’t due clergy and religious.

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‘Pat, you sure benefited from Catholic education for free…plus your seminary education was free.’
Translation: I resent that not everyone falls for our blanket attempts to indoctrinate everyone, and those who ‘benefit’ should be silent.
Jesus, are you a parody account setting out to prove the church is a cult?

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10.57: You would say that, MC, wouldn’t you? I will be forever grateful to the Church for what it gave me and my family: I will not thrash people through twisted versions of history nor will I just play nasty, as is the thrust of this blog. With nastiness comes lies as in your post. Get a grip.

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My primary education was paid for by the Irish state, not the church.

When I transferred to secondary education you had to pay. I won a state sponsored scholarship, so again the state paid.

My seminary education was free and I was willing to serve as a priest for my lifetime.

I did not leave. I was ousted. Had that not happened I would still be a serving priest 46 years ordained.

I do not live on donations. I live on a state pension and on what I charge as fees for services and account to the tax man.

How aware are you of the terrible thing the church has done and is doing ?

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10.24
Are you really so intellectually myopic?
Any good done by the Church was, in reality, down to the suckers who bankrolled it.
Remember these men don’t work for a living, but sponge off those who do.

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9.49: Buckkey: please stop lying and deluding yourself that you were the only one aware of abuse or wrongdoing…What an innocuous question to ask – “were you aware of the terrible…” FFS: Of course I was…and reported to relevant authorities. Cop on.

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5.12 what your name, Father Anonymous the Fake Whistleblower! 😏
Pat Buckley’s personal details & movements were circulated once he spoke out, still common practice today from the RC Mafia.

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11.43 pm
Who can come to receive the eucharist in your parish?
The RCC teaches that people who are not hetrosexual and asexual are intrinicly evil and cannot receive communion. Likewise any couples who are also using contraceptives are in a state of mortal sin and cannot receive. Priests who masterbate are also in a state of mortal sin and cannot recieve. Couples living in sin and divorced people living in sin cannot receive the eucharist. These are the teachings of the RCC and does your parish follow the teachings of the RCC?

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12.10 nasty lay one does that job in the local chapel, bad joke when all can see what they at around the place rest of week, no, but no thanks.

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7.18 none of the lay ones doing anything from the goodness of their hearts, 2 faced bastardos on the make one way or another.

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@ 3:21pm
I think it will take more than a decade for the penny to finally drop for you. I was merely pointing out that at that time it was indeed a disgrace to have a child out of wedlock which it was. That’s why they left the country or were sent to Homes, but you don’t get it ,do you, ya cretin!🙄

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Fairly cheap commentary Pat at what was effectively the English genocide of the Irish. Aid wise (money and food etc) the Catholic Church provided more than the British government percentage wise. Before you start dishing the dirt on a people and a Church that was persecuted to no end by the Brits, maybe just leave the Catholic bashing to the Cullen era and after. Or maybe you want to have a go at Massrocks as well? Disappointed with you to be honest.

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9.48 Well said, aborting kids of priests and bishops and their well connected pals and fare & abortion fee paid for from parish donations.

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9.48 catlicks make up & change their rules to suit themselves as they go along. Would not trust any of them.

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11.54
Genocide by the English?? Absolute nonsense!
I have lost count of the whining Irish Anglophobes I have had to correct on this issue. There was NO governmental policy of GENOCIDE against the Irish; there was, however, the guiding economic principle, ‘laissez-faire’. This meant as little governmental influence as possible in national commerce and trade to prevent economic stagnation. It was a misguided notion at the time, to be sure. But it was not tantamount to genocide.
The British Government did eventually awaken from its economic and fatalistic dogmatism by providing work-related financial relief, but it was too little, too late. Had there truly been a policy of genocide, there would have been no such relief.

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10.08 You should read Chris Fogarty’s book, Ireland 1845-1850, The Perfect Holocaust and who Kept it Perfect. It would be hard to explain away this factual evidence

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11.12
You and Fogarty are using attributed, emotive terms to a tragic period of history, and the terms are purely ideological rather than historical. In other words, they are inspired by political prejudice,specifically, anti-Britishness.
Ponder this, ACTUAL historical point: the British Government DID eventually provide work-related Famine relief when it, slowly, awakened to the magnitude of this humanitarian crisis. Did the Nazis do the same for the Jews?
‘Holocaust’ is a highly emotive, and much mis-applied and misused, word today. Fogarty should know better. I have no respect for historians who write such pseudo-historical nonsense.

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There was definitely Genocide of the poor Irish classes deliberately letting little innocent babies die in church run mother & baby homes. It’s all there in the records that were extracted by force through the Courts from those evil nuns & the priests they having affairs with. My mother never forgot to the end of her days what was done and we her kids and our kids still continue to fight for the rights of those who have passed and were denied any voice, you will never ever shut us up.

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You are utterly wrong. It was deliberate. Many countries suffered the threat of famine and food shortage, and quite a few governments fell. However all relevant authorities (as did the British in earlier times before Laissez Faire and the attendance aggressive victim blaming of the poor for their plight took complete hold) restricted the trade in foodstuffs which had not failed. The result was that while governments did fall in many places in Europe, the numbers who perished from crop failure was far, far, lower by many magnitudes. Charles Trevelyan the British civil servant and Assistant Secretary to the Treasury wrote in a letter that: ‘the judgement of God sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson.’ He was utterly slow to authorise any relief and closed down the limited efforts made under Robert Peel as Premier. People saw food being exported but attempts to stop it by protest or riot were beaten back by British troops. His hatred and contempt for the Irish contrasted with how during the Scottish Highland potato famine of 1846 he demanded that everything be done so no one starved.

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11.33 I take it you haven’t read Fogarty’s book. it is more than emotive terms. and cannot be explained away. Food exported from starving Ireland to England using the force of the miitary, with records vouching same. Due to the number of people who starved to death, Fogarty is entitled to use the term Holocaust if he wishes

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1.41
Of course there are records relating to British armed guards for food transportation to England! This isn’t in dispute, and it certainly isn’t the issue. The issue is WHY these guards were necessary. The answer is that Irish farmers themselves wanted their produce exported to England, because it was commanding such high prices there. It would not have commanded these prices at home; in fact, it would have been distributed for almost nothing to a large, starving population. The armed guards were present to protect from raids food stores, and wagons en route to the ports. They would NOT have been there had Irish farmers provided food aid at home.
If you are casting around for a whipping boy for the Irish Famine, look to your own countrymen.
Fogarty should attempt writing fiction rather than fact. He has already shown a talent for the former in that fanciful little book of his.

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@ 10:34am
I don’t think you’ve much of an intellect or you would know it’s hard work having to deal with people like you. Who probably have never contributed to anything in your life.🙄

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12pm clergy are not discerning on origins of the more substantial contributions & favours. Parishioners are not blind, it’s all there in black and white.

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12pm what a horrible pompous church member you are. This blog is such an eye opener. you clearly value others based on the size of their wallet. That our family completely done with it & im screen shotting it to my Dad to finally teach him sense to keep his small pension for himself particularly now with rising food & energy costs.

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One thing Covid has taught us is that we don’t need Religion at all. Lots of elderly are awakening to that fact. Who needs a priest at a funeral anymore when lay people can do a better job.The priest at my father’s funeral said he didn’t know the man. What a hurtful and insensitive thing to say. He didn’t go out of his way to know him as he was ‘New to the parish’. NEVER AGAIN.

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I have left an instruction in my funeral plan that no priest is to officiate at my service when I drop off this mortal coil. The very thought that one of these parasites might do so nauseates me.
They don’t do it for free either. If I had chosen to have a priest to officiate, I would have had to pay an additional fifty quid. Imagine? Having to pay a priest to pray. Of course, this wouldn’t have been his only payment : he would probably have been slipped quite a few quid from grateful relatives post-burial.
Revolting.

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10.25: Good for you…even cheaper still would be to ask your auntie Madge to light a match under your coffin…and if you opt for a humanist or civil or non cleric religious ceremony, have €3/400 ready…Or alternatively Pat will do you for free…honestly, I’m falling around laughing…😁😁🤣🤣😃🤣😂👺👹😈🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥….it’s hot in here ..

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€1,600 + VAT for Columbarium matchbox space & Padre sniggering all the way to the bank about deceased having a match set under coffin ⚰️says:

2.15 that’s right take the piss out of people that choose cremation but still charge them €1,600 for a matchbox in the Church columbarium. Two faced priests showing themselves in their true colours allright.

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2.30 they’ve been TAKING the piss for centuries. Quite a few of them have been ON the piss for even longer. 😒

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Prayers requested for a situation which has been a cause of some anxiety in the past few months. In spite of best efforts there remains the creeping feeling that people still find reason to entertain the idea of further problems rather than leaving others be. That peace and well wishes may be lived and not only spoken we pray to the Lord. 🙏

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12.59 Sounds exactly like something Fr Ger Fitzgerald would say. If it is you, then let me ask you this:
If you want to others to leave you be, then why don’t you live what you speak? Not trying to be sarcastic, but I know of a great monastery of silence outside of Jerusalem. It is called Latrun. Start practicing what you preach, preacher boy!
“Leaving you be” will not make the problem disappear. You could have had the decency to respond to Terry’s message. He spent many late nights holding your hand in Cloughleigh. Time for you to grow up.

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9.46 do you mean that your money has not been refunded yet by Fr Fitzgerald or his Diocese & still no apology or anything put right? I know it’s not about the money but the lack of integrity communicated speaks volumes.

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2.54 I was given a lump sum of money in April by Fr Ger through Cleo. I do not think it covers all that was spent but I would have to sit down and make a comprehensive list and do the maths. As you said, money is not the issue. Closure is needed and an attempt was recently made to bring about that closure but it was met with stony silence. Terry did a lot for Ger over the years and Ger should have at least answered Terry’s message. Terry was not happy about the money resting in Ger’s account and the fact that people on the blog were claiming it was Ger’s money (bullshit)…that is why he didn’t respond to Ger’s earlier messages when all the shit hit the fan. Ger can continue to ignore the situation for as long as he wants. It won’t go away and I am determined to uncover the truth. When I make up my mind to do something, no one can stop me.

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@5.44
You can be certain the amount given didnt cover everything. Tightwads always want to pay less than what they owe so that they feel they got a bargain. Did he refund his gym membership?
I dont know why an apology hasnt come, you”d imagine its in his interest. “Money resting in his account” lol its so Father Ted

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5.44 that bank account situation seems very sinister, if there was a clear and innocent explanation on the source, it would have been communicated by Diocese of Killaloe by now.

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6.08 The money for gym was refunded. Ger is on the blog and he can expect me to be a permanent fixture here until he decides to answer Terry’s message. The choice is his.

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12.28 Bullshit, Fitzy has Killaloe by the short & curlies since the Maynooth Seminarians Summer of Love

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9.22 No doubt all the Killaloe Mafia & reps are on the blog, sure their Bishop sounds like he is mad for the auld technology sure he is. A right social media sensation altogether.

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6.08 wont bank know the source of the money. There are money laundering regulations

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OMG a Redemptorist Mission was all hell fire and damnation – granted they were better orators than your ordinary parish priest but my could they put the bejesus up you.
Old hypocrites themselves mind and they seemed to focus on parishes in the UK with a high Irish contingent.

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2.40 money grabbing aul gits feeding off the poor Irish immigrants that had to flee Ireland for work or because they were pregnant. Exploitation. My grandparents were well taken in by them but we don’t bother with them after all they did to people we know & no apology or attempt to put right. Pure evil they are.

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Lourdes still does a blinding trade in “Merch” thankfully most parishes no longer have piety shops or stalls.

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Wow. How is this anti-Catholic blog allowed to publish such hatred against my Church? This is very offensive.

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7.33 Check the international media – the whole world is aware that the Vatican enables Bishops around the world to obstruct justice for victims of RCC related abuse and wrong doing.

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7.33. Why hasn’t the pro-paedophile Roman Catholic Church been closed down, liquidated & assets distributed to victims world wide more like!

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@9.24 exactly Tara. Truth and Justice is the only viable solution to the problems they created.

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Pro tip: If you can freely express your idiotic martyr delusion on the internet, you’re not being persecuted.

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7.33 Well, Hellooooo, Frankie
When are you taking a trip to Argentina
You haven’t visited your family in years
And money for the flights cannot be your excuse??????

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Church have no problem with where their larger donations originate. Their true loyalties lie with their rich and influential donors.

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The wrong people will find you in peace and leave you in pieces.
The right people will find you in pieces and leave you in peace.
Prayers for deceased and living victims of church related abuse and wrong doing.

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Those poor starving people were of no use or consequence to ambitious churchmen building big chapels & cathedrals during the famine years. The affluent classes supplied children for vocations along with the substantial donations that funded the huge properties that the Church still own today.

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I daresay before the mid 19 th century era revolution the professor is talking about, prayer was common by individuals and families for good providence, but not church-marshalled.

In my own young day in a green field, blue sky, white heat dioceselet in SE England, without any “catholic schools” at the time, secular authority excluded me from school assembly on false neo-colonial grounds because of the sect three of my grandparents had chosen (each for their own second change of religion). My parents probably thought that when filling in a form they were indicating which chaplain should be sent for should I go unconscious but to authority, it was about sweetening the hierarchy by preventing “contamination”. In fact there was nothing anti-catholic about assemblies according to my own judgment and I self-admitted myself after having lost out on a lot of bonding.

Bowen was already main administrator in the dioceselet and he went on (leaving Cormac after him) to a very long spell in charge of next door to it, strangely not cherry picked by IICSA.

My dad said always keep your religion to yourself – and he meant, from the church more than anywhere.

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Spirit in the sky job. Get m into heaven when they die. People were men and women of the day. If they got a few bob here well God rewards the righteous. Church is now a product. Stepson sez I want to get married in Bulgaria I’ll become Catholic Ya can’t get McDonald’s in a Pizza Hut

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Can we not blame the Catholic Church for the famine or is it just the Brits in the frame for that. It’s usually one or the other for modern, progressive, liberal, lefty, woke Ireland.

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Seanie, seeing this from outside a strong vein of Irish self loathing and self sabotage, as well as the tendencies you’ve mentioned, is very apparent.
My own reading would be that Ireland (not even thinking of NI) could have done with a conciliation process like in South Africa because it’s still reeling from its colonisations by the British and the Roman church.

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In Ireland, ”taking the soup” (adjective, souper) is a phrase used in reference to a traitor, often one who has changed sides for pecuniary gain. This stems from the Famine whereby Protestant missionaries would offer the starving Catholic Irish bowls of soup in exchange for their converting to the Reformed faith.

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Hey, what’s new ? Clergy will have sat pretty and fat during the famine, but they still do now in these lean times. When did you ever see a priest who was evidently struggling financially and didn’t have access to good food, wine, cars, clothes, holidays and the rest ? Those around them will be struggling with inflation and trying to pay for that month’s rent, heat, light and food, and bring up children. He will be swanning off to the Canaries for some winter sun, or going off on ‘retreat’ to Rome, or to very important meetings, or on ‘courses’. Just watch. The bishops too are on the gravy train and can invent all sorts of reasons to jet off to some nice places on the spurious excuse of having to go to some congress or meeting. Usually in nice places. The Catholic clergy kleptocracy is alive and kicking. We sequester the ships and planes of Russian oligarchs. Perhaps there will come a day of reckoning when clergy property is sequestered, on the basis that it has been bought mostly dishonestly with money and resources that were not really theirs. The grey, thieving, dishonest clerical economy is still alive and kicking. And, they think that we are fools and don’t know !

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A wonderful post, not least for its bold honesty about romanist clergy.
I used to have contempt for the fools who donated to this indolent, work-shy class of shameless, freeloading scroungers and moochers; now I just laugh at them. 🤣

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I used to have some sympathy for the distinction often made her between good and bad clergy and laity. Now I think the real distinction is between the ones who are rogues and the ones who are fools.

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10.54 crooks and criminals – if they not at it, they defending & covering up for it.

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The movie ‘the field’ was powerful movie re big battle between church and a local farmer who wanted to buy that land in his dreams. R. Harris played a huge blinder in terms of acting performance and his booming voice which reverberated around the cinema. Also connected to the land which I understood it well cos half of my family past generations came from farming background and still do now but less in numbers.

There was a comment said by Harris such as church closed their gates during the famine and left the dying out there alone in their midst (something to that effect, I can’t recall his exact words)

Is there any truth in that comment?

Saw somewhere in the media that it was probably a genocide in another proxy by the British as they took it all (food) for themselves I think. It sounded a reasonable explanation to me as regards to British govt actions at that time.

Anon at 9.17am

Speak of kleptocracy I’m reading a book at the mo, named ‘kleptocracy’. Interesting book but bit heavy going at times. That book said rogue states or criminal players in rogue countries used UK as a place to launder their money and clean it with the help of various legal and financial professionals in UK . So that it doesn’t create paper trails, leaving a blank here and there.

It brought my attention to the vatican property deals made in London where they made a huge mess out of it with no profit or with a loss.

Did they launder their money in order to clean all their traces of corrupted monies via property 🤷‍♀️.

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DG, don’t you know that Irish farmers, many of them prosperous middle-class Catholics, did not want their food distributed to the starving during the famine in Ireland, because this would likely have bankrupted them: they would have had to give it away.

The English took nothing from the Irish in terms of food; this is a popular, anglophobic, republican myth. Irish farmers CHOSE to export their produce to England; they were getting excellent prices for their produce.

The Industrial Revolution was in full swing; increasing numbers of agricultural workers were migrating from the countryside to the expanding towns and cities across England to work in what were largely cotton factories. The demand for food in England was rising, but there were fewer and fewer agrarian workers to provide it. Irish farmers, with an eye for the main chance, exploited this opportunity to the full. They didn’t want their produce going to feed the poor.

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Anon at 10.18am
Please provide a link re your proof re this?
Cos are you saying that irish farmers who caused that famine by diverting their food stuff to UK?

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10.41
Er, we are discussing the IRISH FAMINE. Try to stay relevant.
The Bubonic Plague (Black Death) also occurred under English rule (and that of many other government s). Were the English responsible for this, too? Along with the Aids tragedy, etc.?
Non-sequiturs don’t constitute historical evidence. Stupidity, yes; but not historical evidence.

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10.41 The Bengal famine was probably part of the reason that Maj. General Robert Clive committed suicide. I do hope you know about his connections to Co. Clare?

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12:08, between 1845 and 1879, a number of devastating famines occured in Ireland, India, and Cape Colony – colonies of the British empire – killing millions of people?

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11:50 The blogger at 10:18 doesn’t need to provide a link. If I am correct in my assumption, he has all the statistics in his essay about the Famine that he submitted to Myles Dungan. For Christ’s sake Ger, if you don’t give him the statistics, then I will. Did you forget that you sent it to me?

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11.50
YES, DG. It was largely down to the greedy Irish themselves (the prosperous farming classes) who signed the death warrants for a million or so of their fellow countrymen. Not a historical truth that would go down well in republican Ireland, but a truth nevertheless.
Ireland at the time had almost cornucopic food supplies from its rich agricultural lands and temperate weather, certainly more than enough to prevent some one million deaths by starvation.

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12:08 I think currently you and me are the only people commenting here I would point to as actually aware that correlation doesn’t equal causation.
For the cheap seats, this confusion is why people think things like homeopathy work.

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1.58 I know exactly who you are referring to. I saw an exhibition about him at the Portumna Workhouse.

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Of several Irish national cultural characteristics displayed on this blog the most frequent are: the tendency to be a victim; to blame someone else; to make out you can’t do anything; blame someone else; rinse and repeat.
And it isn’t even purely in national terms. In addition to the English the blame target is often: Protestants; Liberal Catholics; Conservative Catholics; Vatican 2; the Council of Trent,; some bishop who died decades ago; the clergy; the bishops; the laity; permanent deacons; ‘Catholics in name only ‘; people who go to mass; people who don’t go to mass; people who don’t give money; people who do give money; seminary rejects; those ordained; etc.
One is left with the distinct impression that the only Irish men who did anything to break this interminable paralysing bitch fest, were the ones who sold their crops to the English and caused the others to die.
Jesus, will you ever look at yourselves. 😂

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Anon at 10.18pm and 1.04pm

Your bare ASSERTIONS aren’t good enough as you try to pin the whole blame on the farmers.

Nice try though.🤣🤣

Your bare ASSERTIONS must be backed up with rock solid evidence or strong historical evidence.

Most of the blame in terms of percentage wise goes to the British.

The rest is rcc cos no help and gates locked out. Fewer priests died in comparison to millions of irish people who died in the famine.

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7.11
No, DG. I did not blame Irish farmers alone for the Irish famine: I said that they were ‘LARGELY’ responsible for it. Which, indeed, they were.
I know this rankles with you, but try to mature enough to accept this historical truth. It will, however revolting to your Irish nationalist/republican sympathies, set you free.

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Not one romanist cleric died of starvation during the Famine. Not one. Though some 147 of them did die, of Famine fever, during it. But then, so did many others.
Dear Donald Kerr, history lecturer at Maynooth, brought out this statistic in one of his publications. Not the bit about Romanists’ eating and drinking well during the Famine; this wouldn’t have helped his theme: the heroic, Irish priest, who sacrificed his life for others. No; Prof. Donald was too timid, too much a ‘company man’, to tell the whole, not so complimentary truth about these men.

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I watched a movie last year on Netflix, or Prime Videos; it was called, I think, The Hunger. It was set during the time of the Irish Famine. In one scene, a romanist priest excoriates a group of starving Catholic Irish, telling them that they would go to Hell for listening to a Protestant preacher drone on in return for some soup.
Did this sort of thing really happen? It wouldn’t surprise me.
Another poster made the point that no priest died of starvation during the Famine. It would have been so easy for these well-fed men to castigate the poor for abandoning their
Faith, temporarily, in return for a bowl of watery soup.

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Prof. Breandán Mac Suibhne contacted me in 2018 in relation to some queries he had about a 19th c. album that I purchased on eBay in 2018. One of the photographs in the album was of a Protestant clergyman who deserves to be remembered for his selfless & tireless famine relief work in Donegal: Rev. Valentine Poll Griffith, rector of Templecrone, who led the campaign to get food & medical supplies into the Rosses thereby saving the parish from being entirely decimated. Rev. Griffith’s famine relief efforts are documented in Patrick Campbell’s well researched book, The Famine Years in Northwest Donegal: 1845-1850. “If not for the aid provided by the Quakers, the British Association, the Belfast Ladies Association, the local clergy, and the resident landlord, Francis Forster, there would have been few survivors. During the famine years, the British Government provided no aid to Templecrone, even though its representatives in Dublin were well aware of the tragedy taking place in the parish.”
https://www.amazon.com/Famine-Years-Northwest-Donegal-1845/dp/1515049108

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Good one Karen. Maybe tell the other story about the rest of the good protestants there while you are at it.

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Ok, the Brit apologist’s are out in force today. Good luck supporting colonialism, plonker.

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2:58 There were/are good Protestants and there were bad Protestants just as there were/are good Roman Catholics and bad Roman Catholics. You can’t change history Nellie.

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Sure Karen. The difference is somewhere in the region of 1.5 million Irish died or emigrated. Those same people who’s ancestors lost land or anything resembling self determination at the hand’s of your mates, but sure look it, you keep going on after Ger there. Great lad that he is, he loves the Protestant ascendancy too.

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10.48 Nellie did you know that the current Queen is a descendant of Brian Boru? 🤣 Go back far enough and you’ll see that you are most likely connected to Protestants. We’ve got Maire Rua and Princess Sadhbh in our family tree 😁

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Chris Fogarty is not a historian; he’s an Irish – American, Irish-republican polemicist. Just study the highly emotive and suggestive picture on the front of his book. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but no one said they would be truthful.
The picture suggests that British soldiers are, at gunpoint, forcibly haemorrhaging food supplies from the starving Irish. This is a lie. The soldiers were there to guard the supplies from being raided by a starving-to-death Irish poor population, yes, BUT ONLY because this is what Irish farmers themselves had wanted, many of them prosperous, middle-class Catholics.
The food was being shipped, principally to England, to feed a growing, urbanised population, on the back of an industrial revolution that saw more and more of the population migrate from the countryside to the towns and cities to find work in the cotton factories. This, along with a burgeoning population in England, meant that there was ever- growing demand for food, but not enough agricultural workers left to provide it.
Growing demand for food here was far outstripping the capacity to supply it, so prices for grain especially were excellent. This was an opportunity for economic bonanza, and Irish farmers had no intention of missing out on it.
In case the obvious historical point has nevertheless been overlooked, I shall repeat it: it was Irish farmers themselves, many of them Catholic, who wanted their produce exported to England. The English did not take it from them.
The moral point? Always beware Irish – Americans when they attempt to pontificate on Anglo-Irish history. They almost always show themselves up as ignorant fools.

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12:54 On that note, perhaps I should publish GF’s essay on the Irish Famine on my social media accounts? After all, I am considered by some here to be an ignorant Yank. GF sent me the essay by email so I can make use of it as I choose just like GF used my photos that I sent him by email without notification and without so much as a credit. I’ll make sure to give GF credit for his work. Perhaps I can link it to the blog? I am certain that many of you would be interested in reading the opinions of a native Irish RC priest. Time to up the feckin ante.

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I know nothing of you ‘Lady I’ but I do think you’re doing everything to keep in contact with Ger. Why would you bother publishing a piece he wrote? and what purpose would that serve you? You plead the victim of his abuse yet crave his attention!, these are all the signs of a person rejected of love. You need to move on but by all means help +Pat but let go of trying to be noticed by GF or Killaloe Diocese for nothing else but your sanity.

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12.01

Run that past me again. ‘Chris Fogarty may not be a professional historian (it’s the next bit that puzzles me) which is why his research has more credibility.’?? Wow! Now that’s what I call mind-blowing, deductive logic.

As I already indicated, Fogarty is an Irish-American with Irish republican sympathies; he’s a polemicist, which makes anything he writes on Anglo-Irish history as credible as … tales of Roswell.

Oh! I didn’t say that ‘all’ Irish farmers wanted their produce exported to England. So, if anyone is being fanciful, it’s you.

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1.35 I was called a lot of names on this blog. You must be new to the blog otherwise you would know. Carry on.

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2.29 Not trying to be noticed by GF. He is reading the blog and commenting. Why would I publish his essay? Why not? It is written by an Irish RC priest! We Americans know nothing about Anglo Irish history 🤣.

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Reply to Lady I 5.55 You would publish your abusers essay????? And say in the same breath you don’t want his attention. Catch on to yourself please.

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7.40 You can think whatever you want. It won’t stop me from being on the blog. How do I know that you aren’t Fr Ger? I don’t trust anyone on the blog except Pat ❤️

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6:12 Not sure if spat deleted my comment. Ok Pat, how about this: Yes, I would publish it because I want Ger to know how much I admire his writing 😜. Pity you didn’t put up my first one. I don’t need Ger’s attention. He is holed up in his house glued to his phone and books. He won’t go out in this heat. The blog is much more entertaining 😁.

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7.26 You talk about him everyday. That tells me you want his attention and you joke about it when questioned about your behaviour. Don’t love and admire an abuser, let him go, you’re still allowing him yo live rent free in your head and heart.

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6.12 I do not want to keep you from this blog, that is an excuse you use when you’re challanged along with calling challengers ‘Gers minions’ You haven’t answered my questions and you will continue to talk of Ger each day and allow him to live rent free in your head until you let him go.

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I don’t need to answer any of your questions. I am now a permanent blogger here 😁🤣.

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12.54 Chris Fogarty may not be a professional historian which is why his research has more credibility. He is not bought and paid for like some of the historian class. Your statement that all the farmers wanted to export their crops in such numbers is fanciful and baseless. Where is your evidence for this? Fogarty gives documentary evidence of the huge numbers of English garrisons based in Ireland at the time, information which he secured in English museums. Why has all this been airbrushed from modern Irish History

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2.18. Hierarchy are ultimately responsible and are judged by public for how they deal with issues brought to their attention in any Diocese. Fr Ger is gone but the system that facilitated him remains in same format doing the same old, same old, brushing issues under carpet via any means possible.

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3.30 It was the Chocolate Orange’s fault. Money, money, money. Greedy RCC priests with insatiable appetites. No wonder priests in the Famine survived.

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5.06 not wishing to in any way trivialise what you’ve been through with this Fr Fitzgerald lad but it seems he eats an awful diet, chips and Terry’s chocolate Orange & €2 burger deals. he’s lucky he’s too young to have lived through the mad cow disease that we farmers suffered a long time ago. My daughter showed me this page, it’s awful to see it all there in black and white but fair play to you girl, that’s not right at all. Good luck to you and there’s a great man running this page to help people, I wish I knew about it years ago but no matter now. Good luck,

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7.10 Thank you Steven. Pat is one of the good guys. What would we do without him? I have great respect for farmers. We rent out our land to a cattle farmer and there used to be dairy cows here once. Mind yourselves.

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Travel writer Asenath Nicholson writing in 1847:
“Living skeletons burying themselves by lying down in the corners of graveyards, their sole wish to be buried in consecrated ground”
Book: The truth behind the Irish Famine

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Yes, those wretched, forlorn people had instlled in them, by well-fed romanist priests, the superstition that not being buried in conserated ground would imperil their souls. Even at this sorry stage of their beggared existence, the insidious influence of Romanism ensured them little peace to the very end.

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4.53 sadly once the romanists get their tentacles into you, say goodbye to peace. Dangerous mindset they have.

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4.53 ragged and beggared remains the aim of the RC – it’s all about control. De Valera subscribed to the notion of keeping people poor to keep them compliant, stemmed from his religious education and institutionalisation as his mother effectively abandoned him – he remained close to RC all of his life and they enjoyed great kudos during his reign.

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Translate this into today’s society:
The current and insufferable PP of Pomeroy, has rejoined the parish after a month long holiday cruise. He returned to his palatial residence, where outside is parked his 4×4 extravagant jeep.
Absolutely disgraceful – and no accountability.

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His underfloor heating and all mod cons in his recently built house are something to experience. Knocked down a perfectly good house. Outrageous waste of money. Certainly not witnessing to a simple life! ‘Jesus loves the poor but absolutely adores the rich’ Father!

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4.44 Shower of little Lord Fauntleroys they are. They good to themselves allright and to hell with the sheep.

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6.50 let’s hope they leave this local journalist alone now to do his job in peace instead of the usual creeping around to control in favour of RC agenda.

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You are not paranoid
Your body can pick up on bad vibrations
If something inside you says something is not right about a situation or a person, TRUST IT

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You should all do what my husband St Patrick wants you to do and don’t forget he banished all the Irish snakes too. 🐍

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Survivors groups calculate around 100,000 children are unaccounted for – some buried in mass graves, documents and names changed when trafficked to America. Cause of death inaccurate on death certificates. Trust is earned not demanded.

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Holy shit the search warrant has been released.Trump is being investigated for
18 USC 2071 — Concealment, removal or mutilation
18 USC 793 — Gathering, transmitting or losing defence information
18 USC 1519 — Destruction, alteration or falsification of records in Federal investigations
If guilty that’s minimum two years jail for EVERY PAGE, and boxes and boxes were retrieved.
And the max penalty is federal death sentence.

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You would have thought the Idiot would have put them somewhere they could not be found, rather than in his safe in one of his primary residences. Idiot! !

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10:48 demonstrating the Roman Catholic/Republican knack of thinking getting away with the crime is the important bit.
This is why they shuffle round kiddy fiddlers, folks.

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The search is a politicised horror, and a mark of what the FBI has become since Obama weaponised it as a weapon in the ends of the left (it had notably disloyal officers when Pres Trump was in the White House). The Democrats have dementia Biden who cannot put on his jacket, Kamala Harris who is both pompous (she wants all staff to stand when she enters a room which never happened for a VP) and not liked by voters. Hillary Clinton has been making noises again. No amount of rigging could get her in, which is a relief. Suiciding her foes won’t help. Democrats need the dead and illegals to win.

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+Pat Frank Flannery’s brother Fr Tony Flannery has Killaloe connections, but you probably already knew that. Old news.

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Never mind Frank Flannery, what about the total scandal that’s just about to explode over Bishop Frank Thomas?

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This seems like the usual anti-Catholic propaganda from that West Brit, likely MI6 funded rag ‘the Irish Times.’ A great many priests (plus Protestant ministers of religion, medical doctors and Poor Law personnel, like half the staff of the North Dublin Union suffered famine fever with half of those dying), for instance in the diocese Cloyne and Ross (http://www.gcatholic.org/dioceses/diocese/cloy0.htm), 17 priests died before the end of 1847 from attendance on the poor, and going on how urban, coastal areas suffered least, the numbers were higher in other diocese, but tiredness forbids greater searching, except that Tipperary reported 35 deaths from attendance on the poor (https://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Priests-who-died-in-the-Great-Famine.pdf). Few churches or chapels existed because unlike the Established Church, Catholics had to build churches with money from their own parishioners not the British government with forcibly extracted tithes and taxes. Occasionally a benevolent Protestant landlord and also the rare Catholic landlords, would fund a Catholic chapel. Now Maynooth was British funded when founded in the later years of the eighteenth century so Catholic seminarians would no longer train in places under French revolutionary influence. The legacy of that place has been mixed and more than a few did not like it there.

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