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DID JESUS INTEND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTHOOD?

Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-Two

“After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go. He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field. Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves. Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.

“When you enter a house, first say, ‘Peace to this house.’ If someone who promotes peace is there, your peace will rest on them; if not, it will return to you.  Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.

“When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is offered to you. Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say,  ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.’ I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town”. (Luke 10)

It is quite clear from the above – and from the call of the Apostles – that Jesus Himself called specific people and gave them a commission to go out and perform certain functions / ministeries on His behalf.

There is no indication that Jesus regarded these “chosen” ones as superior in any way to the rest of his disciples and followers. Nor is there any indication that those sent out were instructed to Break Bread or perform any “sacraments” apart from healing. Sacraments were a later development.

They certainly didn’t wear clerical dress or either Roman or Gothic vestments and spoke neither English or Latin. And there were no popes, bishops or priests.

When Jesus went away He left a basic Christian community behind Him. Two needs emerged – setting in place the resources needed by the community and the resistance of errors and heresies.

Structure developed. We saw the emergence of leaders/ presbyters and eventually the emergence of episcopi (overseers), presbyters (priests) and deacons.

It seems to me that some of the leaders of early churches were women.

Wikipedia

“From the very beginning of the early Christian church, women were important members of the movement, although much of the information in the New Testament on the work of women has been overlooked. Since sources of information stemming from the New Testament church was written and interpreted by men, many assumed that it had been a “man’s church”. Recently, scholars have begun looking in mosaics, frescoes, and inscriptions of that period for information about women’s roles in the early church”.

The early Christian texts refer to various women activists in the early church. One such woman was St. Priscilla, a Jewish missionary from Rome, who may have helped found the Christian community at Corinth. She traveled as a missionary with her husband and St Paul, and tutored the Jewish intellectual Apollos. Others include the four daughters of Philip the Evangelist, from Caesarea, Palestine, who were said to be prophets and to have hosted St Paul in their home. However, some people, including the author of Acts, did not see women as true missionaries or leaders in their own right even though they did perform good acts in the community. Widows for example were recognized as a group in society but were not admitted into the clerical rank. While women did have roles in early Christianity, as Christianity became formalized with sacraments and hierarchization or church office, women’s earlier public roles were restricted and regulated.

THE WASHINGTON POST

“The Virgin Mary was chosen to birth and raise the Son of God. Mary, Martha, Susanna and Mary Magdalene were just a few women who followed Jesus, helped fund his ministry and preached the Gospel. Priscilla, Lydia, Phoebe and Dorcas served as important leaders in the early church. I wish more churches focused on these (and many other) biblical heroines”.

PAT CONTINUES

The argument about women priests is one for another day.

A big change happened in the 4th century when the emperor Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the empire. This gave the Church temporal power as well as spiritual power and made hierarchs and clerics people of authority, power and position.

This certainly highlighted the difference and superiority of the clergy over other Church members.

Of course Church doctrine and practice developes and this development is not always a bad thing.

Furthermore, we Catholics believe that God reveals Himself both through Scripture and Tradition.

But to my mind, such Tradition must compliment Scripture and certainly not contradict it.

Jesus never intended bishops and priests to be state officials or to be an arm of any state. Nor did He intend bishops to be vastly rich and powerful medieval rulers.

Jesus did not intend clericalism and the clerical club to emerge as a force in the Church that lorded it over the laity.

He never intended bishops palaces and Downtown Abbey presbyteries.

PRIEST versus CLERIC

An RC priest is two things. He is a priest by Sacrament and a cleric by canon law.

The RCC does not have the power to stop a man being a priest. That is God given.

So when a priest is dismissed he is not dismissed from the priesthood. He is “dismissed from the clerical state”.

The ignorant term “defrocked” is meaningless.

So, our real problem today is with clerics and clericalism.

It is with clerics as a cabal. And this has been based on seeing the priesthood as a profession – like doctors, lawyers etc – and the term man of the cloth.

It has turned disciples into operatives and office holders.

Did Jesus intend the Roman Catholic priesthood as it is today?

The plain answer must be NO!

And that means the priesthood must be thoroughly rethought and reformed.

DEATH OF QUEEN ELIZABETH

I am Irish, not British. I am not a royalist.

But I am genuinely sad to hear of the Queen’s death.

Regardless of our political feelings and our feelings about the history of Britain in Ireland and further afield, we can only admire her dedication to her duty and her vocation.

206 replies on “DID JESUS INTEND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTHOOD?”

10.43: Why might it be of interest to Pat? Surely Michael Byrne is allowed to express opinions without little shiteheads like you stalking him. Fool. Get lost.

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9:06 the language from the pro church brigade on this blog today is atrocious- when they are not using bad language, they are insulting the language skills of the new contributors.

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9:12 you are wasting your time preaching to Father, they never learn, just look at them priests and volunteers on here every day, stalking and screaming lies, lies, lies anytime the truth is revealed. Nasty to the core.

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Pro church brigade are brain washed sheep. Sadly there is no remedy for stupidity!

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Patsy of course Our Lord intended The Roman Catholic Priesthood as it was at the time of the opening of Holy Cross Clonliffe it only started going down the tubes in the seventies. Pehaps you wouldn’t be in your present position if you’d been there in the fifties when it was still actually Catholic wonderful history by Fr. Damian McNeice. Truly the rare ould times.

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The spiritual jusrisdiction of every and any operative of, or with allegiance to, the hostile international head office enclave power, both resident and abroad, direct and indirect, high up or lowly, is zero.

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When a bishop along with his cronies are complicit in deliberately covering up abuse, he has no spiritual jurisdiction over me. I, like so many others, will continue to paddle my own spiritual canoe. I survived despite them.

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9:25 Well said. Note when clergy & Co give orders to contributors on this blog as if they have some right! Such blatant and arrogant control freaks. They’ve scared away and disgusted the majority of their customers so they have plenty of time to use abusive language and victim blame here and elsewhere. On reading the vile venom posted by clergy & their catlicks, one can easily now understand the unmentionable cruelty executed by these types of nasty church people before the media finally exposed the septic tank baby situation etc.

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12:07 church is a cut throat business with zero integrity or spirituality. Anyone involved in it is either a fool or on the make in some way or other.

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12:59 what are you complaining about now Padre? You obviously understood the message from 9:37.

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It sure is cut throat, you could nearly cut the sexual tension within the church with a knife 😁

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6:38 they seem particularly vicious by Friday. The Boiler House priest sauna is probably busiest on Saturdays.

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RCC believe they are ontologically changed – they are personae Christi – not humble servants prepared to lay down their lives for their sheep but lords, masters, king pins and to the manor not the stable born.

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No matter what people think about Elizabeth II, it has to be said that when credible accusations were made against the Duke of York, she stripped him of his titles and removed him from public duties; she did not just do this to a member of ‘the firm’, but to a favoured son, and in so doing, she demonstrated compassion for the victim, total transparency and more personal integrity and accountability than members of the hierarchy who cover-up abuse.

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I could never look at the royals the same over how they treated Diana…
People were more devastated when she died.

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9:40 Well said. Queen Elizabeth was a strong lady who gave up her own son rather than be complicit in the abuses he was alleged to be involved in and in fairness he sold assets & paid his victim UK£12 million so she can find healing and move on without being subjected to any more hurt or distress. No continuing to twist the knife in victims wounds like the Roman Catholic Mafia clearly enjoy doing. May this fine lady Rest in peace.

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Did Jesus intend the Roman Catholic priesthood? Of course not. Jesus was a Jew. His earliest followers were all Jews.
Roman Catholicism, even as an abstract concept, did not exist then. So, it is preposterous to argue that Jesus founded Roman Catholic priesthood: history does not support this view.
Did Jesus found any priesthood, then? No, he did not. Jesus’ death and ressurrection obviated priesthood: made it redundant. How? Priesthood, by definition, is an intermediary agency between God and humankind. With Jewish (or levitical) priesthood, that intermediary purpose was to atone for sin and to reconcile the Jews with God. But Jesus’ incarnation teaches us that such ambitious purposes could not be fulfilled by the Jewish priests: only Jesus himself could do so.
Jesus’ death and ressurrection showed up the ineffectiveness of priesthood and achieved what it could not.
The existence of priesthood post-Ressurrection is a denial of what Jesus had achieved. It tells its followers that priests are necessary for relationship with God: that there is no approaching Him in any meaningful way except through them.

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11.17 The comment at 12.51 smacks of the truth. Do you know that there is a large Body of Messianic Jewish believers living in Israel? Why does the phrase ‘Shabbat shalom’ bother you? Can a person not be a believer in Christ and hold fast to the Jewish traditions and holidays? Isn’t that what Jesus’ Jewish followers did? Your man-made Catholic doctrine is rubbish.

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Reply; Anonymoussays:
Sep 9, 2022 at 12:51 am
I have always had difficulty believing that anyone, irrespective of their religion needs an intermediary if they want to connect with their God, as I have matured, I am convinced I am damn right to have reservations about it. Religion and it’s purported religious, are involved in a money making racket, there to fleece the unfortunate followers, while they live” on the pig’s back.”
L Ron Hubbard who founded the Church of Scientology reportedly said, at a meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association in November 1948
“You don’t get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion,”
How right he was.

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12.57 at least L Ron Hubbard cut to the chase and told the truth. Tom Cruise and many others have been Scientologists for decades and they are not plastered over the worldwide media for raping kids & robbing money like these Roman Catholic clergy.

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2.34 What a load of poppycock! Tom Cruise has been accused numerous times of abuse and plastered all over the papers. There are widespread accusations of abuse within the Cult of Scientology.

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3:03 stop telling lies about Tom Cruise. It’s the courts full of priests around the world confirms the truth.

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3.03 Wakey wakey: Former members of the ‘Church’ of Scientology have testified to bullying, blackmail, slave labour and a form of child abuse: separating children from their parents.

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@ 12:03pm
No you’re talking rubbish, you can’t be a Christian and hold fast to Jewish traditions, that would be heresy. Your man- made Jewish doctrine is perfidious rubbish ya cretin.

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3.36pm Wakey, Wakey yourself – “former” members, because the Scientologists don’t keep paying and covering up for their abusive members like the good ole Complicit Roman Church.

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3:36 separating children from their parents? Because that’s NOT what happened in the Roman Catholic Mother & Baby Homes!

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How is Dom Benedict Andersen?
Will he ever be allowed to get on with his life and will he ever get his letter of good standing?

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I hope Dom Benedict Andersen is keeping well. The likelihood is Dom Benedict, like many others in catholic Ireland, will not be allowed get
on with his life. Letter writing costs money.

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11:02 true and the church don’t pay victims or allow them get on with their lives. So wrong on every level.

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Bishop Tom Deenihan & Outstanding Case of Dom Benedict Andersen left without letter of good standing despite repeated requests.says:

12:55 Bishop Tom Deenihan don’t give a damn about Dom Benedict Andersen or anyone else, too busy with his buddies and his interior designers.

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5:21pm Bishop Deenihan is reminiscent of that arrogant politician Padraig Flynn who when questioned on the Late Late Show by a member of the audience about all his houses in Dublin, Castlebar & Brussels, he pleaded poverty about running them on €140,000 per annum stating:
“I wanna tell you something, try it sometime”. Another Sickening vulture.

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Newspaper confirms that Clare’s youngest councillor, Mark Nestor, will be departing County Clare in the next few weeks to join the priesthood.

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1:03 Shame he did nothing he was asked about the poor condition of some of the houses in Cloughleigh estates before he leaves. Good riddance.

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Hes heart and passions clearly are not with the council , that’s why he doesn’t give a shit. prob best for him to go if he’s letting the people down. Cloghleigh may get a councillor a bit older and more experienced.

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7:37 that why council staff & clergy get on so well, they don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves, you try getting them out to get rid of rats where kids should be able to play. Fob off merchants. Horrible having to depend on them.

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He could be allocated anywhere around the country , highly doubt he will be placed in ennis.

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10.06 their departures were never formally announced and in current climate highly unlikely any current absence will be permanent. Why would this be different to all the other clergy who were credibly accused of more grevious matters and yet remained in some capacity.

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Rest in peace. She made a very good impression when she visited Ireland. United with her husband now. He was her rock. She hasn’t been the same since he passed.

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Not even the Devil himself would have wished the Roman Catholic Church on anyone when one looks at the nasty clerics trolling on here every day in between visits to the saunas.

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Yes of course He did! There simply isn’t any other Church that goes back 2000 years you stupid pseudo priest prat. Go to confessions Buckley or go to Hell. Its your choice..You done great work exposing the Bastards running Maynooth so i will always appreciate you for that but Please don’t lose your own Soul because of them Fuckers!

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Always nice to see how belonging to the One True Church helps its followers develop the fruits of the Spirit. You do realize self control is one of them, 3:20? No, of course you don’t.

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‘There simply isn’t any other Church that goes back 2000 years you stupid pseudo priest prat.’
There simply isn’t any Church other than the Orthodox church that goes back 2000 years, even before the church of Rome changed the creed.
There, fixed it for you. And incidentally they have priesthood and understand it quite differently from Roman Catholics. Catholics, particularly Irish Catholics, are so insular and parochial as to virtually be Congregationalist.

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3.20am: Pat does have a penchant for writing narratives which are particular to his ministry. If Pat or others beleve in what he is saying surely he and they – myself too – would live more simply? No car, no big house, no regalia, no staff, no chain of orifice, no fancy wines…This question is one I grapple with myself..Either we are totally immersed in Jesus’s way or we settle for less?

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@9:55 The hierarchy settled for less to the point of elevating themselves above the Gospel teachings of Jesus.

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Reply: Anonymoussays:
Sep 9, 2022 at 9:55 am
And, working in ministry part-time, it’s hardly a full time occupation.

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9:55 try telling that to Bishop Tom Deenihan or any of the others with all their palaces and holiday homes & property deals.

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A reasonably good synopsis of a particular interpretation of how the caste of priesthood evolved. Whatever about the historical nature and meaning given to priesthood, the last sentence is the important conclusion: priesthood (as it is) must be rethought and reformed. This is a reality that I concluded in the 80’s, not long after ordination. Many of us concluded similarly. We’ve been endeavouring to stay on a pathway of reform and renewed vision of the concepts of ministry, service, priesthood itself, structures, celibacy…The questions of what it truly means in 21st century to be follower of Christ, to believe in God, to belong to a particular faith, to be a gospel “leaven” for the world are the foundational questions at the heart of any significant change. Those of us who are in ministry for many, many years have long realised the absolute necessity for radical changes. They haven’t happened significantly. In the meantime we try to live with fidelity and integrity, nourished by prayer and the Eucharist what we envision as the changes we can effect in our own lives and ministry with people. None of this is without challenges and struggles.

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10.39: The “rest” of us needn’t be the same. We’ll stay in the ground. Thank you. Easy if you try.

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@ 1:02 Alvin, read John’s Gospel particularly chapter 6.

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink.
56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.”

But Alvin, whist, say nathin or the cathbots will start kicking themselves.

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1.02: “By the EUCHARIST” – only those of faith can know what being nourished by Christ means. The Eucharist is the very gift of God himself to us in and through Christ. A powerful presence that fills with peace, cinsolation and healing.

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The society of the Heavens is richer now with þhe arrival of the most noble of people: Elizabeth II . God save the King. Good king, good kingdom.

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The Standards in Public Office Commission should be checking why public servants are working for & using public resources for the benefit of the wealthy Irish Roman Catholic Church instead of fulfilling their duties to the thousands of people around Ireland paying property tax and being denied essential services. Clergy are constantly complaining about having no help, looks like local authority workers doing their work for them and being paid by the State to do so.

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7.46: Furstly::What are you talking about?…Public servants working for and using public resources for the benefit of the Roman Catholic Church..? Give specifics and the context of your assertions. Secondly::.Clergy are always looking for help; looks like local authority workers doing their wirk for them and being paid by the state for so doing…Again, give specifics and the context of your assertion. I wait with anticipation a truthful elucidation of your assertions. TRUTH matters in a allegations.

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7:46 True, my daughter spent hours on the phone to Council the other week, called into offices and not sorted and still waiting to hear back. Same thing a few years ago when she had to contact them about same issue. Nothing public about their service a lot of the time.

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No wonder Irish Council staff don’t deal with what they paid to deal with when they spend their time feathering the nest of the church. If they want to work for the church they should leave & get the Bishops they working for to pay their wages instead of leaving Council tenants waiting for services & at same time fast tracking anything their church cronies need in the various departments. All this needs to be thoroughly checked and investigated in planning and contracts and all that. They won’t even answer phone when needed to fix anything in our Council houses.

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8:03 Canon Todd mentioned yesterday that the houses here in Bruach na Sionna in Castleconnell are looking shook. They don’t care about us, Daniel Butler and his cronies spect €100,000 bringing 27 politicians and officials to New York, Savannah and London for St Patrick’s Day. Leitrim only spent €1,937. Galway spent €5,000, Wexford spent €45,000. Daniel Butler and his cronies announced that they want to develop closer relations in Savannah & London, what about us here in Limerick City & County in Council houses that need serious maintenance & many people homeless. They no better next door in Clare County Council, Guy in charge always off on Church business and staff getting paid by Council but working for church instead of Council customers paying them rent, rates and property tax charges & big fees for anything like planning and all that.

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8:03 they vain and self important in councils and churches, well matched & both organisations making fools of mass goers and the public who are paying councils for services they don’t get half the time.

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8.03: Your comment like that of 7.46 requires further ecplanation. Have we missed out in some major report highlighting the ecistencenif “cosy deals” between County Councils and the Church?.In 40 years plus, I’ve never interacted with any council in disposing of lands or property. I think bith if you are creating a particular narrative in your minds. Explain your findings!!

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How much rent are you paying you sponger. Great sense of entitlement you have. Typical. Would you ever think of doing some repairs yourself like people who own property have to.

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9:58 my rent is based on my wages. You have no right to name judgements and name call anybody. It’s no wonder so few go to mass when that’s the attitude of the County Council workers and there cronies in the church. I cannot afford to keep paying for private vermin control that originates in Council house next door occupied by people that have never worked. Council have been informed on numerous occasions and doing nothing only posing in social pages of local newspapers patting themselves on back with their big wig cronies. You don’t walk in others shoes & practice what you preach, Father.

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9.58: I knew you were telling lies. Cork County Council Worker:: I guessed you wouldn’t have the capacity to honestly answer the questions I asked of you. You can’t because you have no argument. Give specifics of your allegations. Your pitiable comment is absurd. Since you seem dispossessed of intelligence, don’t bother responding – unless of course you can corroborate your makey up allegations!!

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There is a one letter difference in Hebrew between the words carpenter and Rabbi. Jesus was the son of a Rabbi. Shalom. No he did not.

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8.18 Can you pls clarify? Carpenter in Hebrew is ‘nagar’ נגר, Rabbi in Hebrew is ‘Rav’ רב. Karen

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This simply isn’t true.
Are you thinking of the way the Aramaic word used in the Talmud for carpenter means learned man.

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Pat. Good morning.
You have hit the nail on the head in that the priest hood needs to be looked at. If the priest hood was formed by Jesus teachings we would have a more loving and peaceful world. A world where we pray simply from the heart in the way that Jesus taught us to pray and to live our lives in God’s love by helping and caring for each other. Instead. We have business like priest hood wheremost of the priests come from educated business type families. By their fruits ye shall know them as we have a world torn apart by war a world driven by profit of material wealth a world driven apart by drugs and pornography . Yes Pat. If we believe in Jesus we need to look at the priest hood again.

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8:29 yes, the background of most priests partly explains their lack of empathy for the daily struggles of ordinary people. I never understood why my Catholic friends had to do a marriage preparation course with a celibate priest before being allowed to marry. Totally absurd!!

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3.06: You present a falsity. A lie. When we as priests meet couples for marriage preparation, it is simply to fill out Pre Marriage Enquiry Forms, help them prepare their Marriage Celebration ceremony, their booklet and arrange a rehearsal. We are there to get to know them a little, support them and help given a sense of God’s love. The other issues are usually covered at Pre Marriage preparation courses. It’s useful sir to do a little research before shooting your mouth off ignorantly. For all those who are not religious or of a faith denomination, go to the forest or river bank. Its a free world. You’re like the fools Plato speaks of who say something because they (feel) have to say it – usually always wrong!!

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No mention in the account of Jesus sending out the seventy-two of child rape or abuse of vulnerable adults or cover up or gaslighting those abused or re-traumatizing or complicit silence, or shunned sheep or persona non grata? So, where did it all go wrong?

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I think the Temple worship could have been influential on the development of Roman Catholicism after the temple’s destruction. On the other hand protestantism is modelled on the synagogue.
Two different models.

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Whether Jesus intended the Roman Catholic Priesthood might be a moot point. However we can definitively assert Jesus did not intend harm to little ones.
“But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” Matt 18:6

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9.45 What would Jesus say about a priest, so bent on protecting his narcissistic self, that he uses a third party to threaten a victim and her little ones? Who was it that asked if the punishment fits the crime? Whoever you are, please refer to Matthew 18:6 for your answer!

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11.15: I don’t get the significance of your comment as such to my comment at 9.45! Do you expect me to say “well done” to the priest? Really?

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11.36 I don’t expect you to say anything. I was using your point to make a point to someone else.

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A person bent on protecting himself and the third party are both guilty
of a criminal offence. From a biblical perspective see Luke 12:47-48;
‘That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or
does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.’
Therefore, we can definitively assert from the teaching of Jesus;
“…if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to
stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung
around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.” Matt 18:6.
The God of Merciful Love is also the God of Justice.

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What would Jesus say about a devout apparently faithful individual who can quote the bible, who threatens anybody and everybody on the blog and tries to destroy other humans on a daily basis.

You should practise that faith of yours that you seem to be preaching.

Hypocrite!

Build a bridge love and get over it.

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2:06: Are you the comment maker @ 11:36 masquerading as 9:45 am…?
Are you a troll or a priest or a trolling priest…? I suspect a trolling priest.

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Perhaps at the end of the day, the solution is quite simple in seeking reform, renewal and change re: church and “priesthood”. The solution: the template of Jesus in its entirety. This means: no attachments to material things, no luxuries of any kind – cars, homes, clothing, art: no travel except for evangelizing, teaching and healing, no fine dining except to sit at table with the poor and marginalised, no relationships but friendships, no asserting of authority except that of service, no time off except to pray, no loitering about…Is it too simplistic a solution? Might it be too much? Would we endure this challenge? Over the centuries since Jesus the Church apparatchiks have attached a multitude of laws, customs, norms, teachings and expectations onto the original concept of ministry, the end result being the deep crisis we are now in. We’re lost. Having outlined what I believe to be a “solution” I realise it probably is anathema to all of us who keep asking for something different!! It may be a step too far!! Imagine, no holidays, no finery of any kind!! OMG..The corollary is to keep on diagnosing, diagnosing…I’m tired of it.

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But if we can reach the essence of Gods love we will have no need of attachment to holidays and material things.

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But sure who doesn’t like a holiday or a bit of travelling, regardless of your faith!

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@ 3:13
Thank you.
Fr. be your best authentic self, the self Christ Jesus calls you to be.
Pax.

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Jesus is the only High Priest and he is both priest and victim.
Through baptism we have some share in this priesthood but there is only one mediator between God and man – and that mediator is God made man.

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A problemo of theology is that Jesus and Paul both believed the end of the world and the second coming was imminent – Paul definitely thought within his lifetime (Thessalonians) and so close he counselled better not to marry (1 Corinthians).
The idea of church was basic community drawn together by Eucharist (didn’t need a priest) and Agapee oh and severe persecution!!

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True.
There were no priests in the early church.
Jesus’ followers met principally in one another’s homes and commemorated Jesus by sharing bread and wine.
Did any participant in these gatherings assume himself or herself (Yes, ‘herself’. Women must have been present, too.) in the role of Jesus at the Last Supper? This seems so hubristic a notion that they would likely have thought it blasphemous.
These followers were there to remember and honour Jesus, not one of their own. Contrast this with the self-regard of a Roman Catholic priest today at Mass: he is present not to remember Jesus, but as another Jesus. It would be heroically self-denying not to allow such pretension to go to his head.

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It is rarely considered that Jesus himself was not a priest and that he never described himself in this way. Priestliness, like the title ‘rabbi’, was attributed to him by his followers.

Atonement for sin, though the primary function of Jewish (levitical) priesthood, was, ultimately, unachievable by it, but it was achieved by Jesus himself through steadfast obedience to God, even in the face of barbarous death. Therefore, priestly attribution to Jesus can only ever be understood figuratively: to take it literally is, in turn, to attribute to Jesus the very atoning ineffectiveness that characterised Jewish priesthood; in effect, it is a denial of Jesus’ divinity and of his atonement for sin. Jesus was greater than priesthood, not a part of it.

When Jesus sent out the seventy (or, arguably, seventy-two) pairs of disciples (principally to herald Jesus’ imminent arrival to villages along the way of his final pilgimmage to Jerusalem), there is no scriptural evidence whatever that the roles these disciples were to play were prototypical priestly roles in a modern sense, or, indeed, in any other sense. Nor can we assume that Jesus had allocated these roles only to a specific group of disciples.

It is very likely that women, too, were among these disciples, since Jewish proprietary custom required that women minister to women in times of illness, and one of the functions of these disciples was to heal the sick. Women take sick, too; not just men.

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12.00 The Father promises the Messiah that he will be a priest according to the higher order of Melchizedek. Melchizedek was around at least 500 years before the Levites. Since Jesus is not to be a priest in the levitical order, he need not be from the tribe of Levi. He is a priest forever. Jesus presented himself to the Father once, but he is perpetually the high priest and sacrifice who ministers in God’s presence.

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2.31
If Melchizedek was a historical figure (this is in dispute), the god in whose name he blessed Abram (later ‘Abraham’) could only have been a Canaanite (Gentile) deity, since it is obvious from the timeline of the blessing that it occurs in pre-Israelite Jerusalem (or ‘Salem’, of which Melchizedek was king).
That the unknown author of Hebrews associates Jesus with such a deity through linking him to the concurrent priesthood and kingship of Melchizedek can seem bizarre, but it becomes clearer in light of the author’s purpose in composing the letter: he was trying to change the minds of people on the point of apostatizing their Christian faith and of returning to Judaism. He attempts this by stressing the ‘priesthood’ of Jesus as not only unique (‘after the order of Melchizedek’), but as superior to levitical priesthood, since Jesus accomplished what levitical priesthood could only aspire to.
Judaism was inherently priestly in its relationship with God. It is, therefore, understandable that the author of Hebrews would present Jesus in a supremely priestly role to win back the hearts and minds of his readership.
It is of fundamental cultic and theological importance to keep this figure of Jesus in mind. Hebrews is not so much describing Jesus as the supreme High Priest, but only as likening him to this role to secure the Christian faith of a dithering early community of believers.

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12.19: Haven’t you little to do than criticise this funeral mass celebrant? You’re a Bitch. No doubt you have 1000’s who travel to be enlivened by you!! Such vacuity of thought.

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12:51 Oh Lord, protect us and keep us safe from woman and child hating Roman priests.

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12.19 That is Sean Quinn who was PP of Louth Village, not the Sean Quinn I blogged of in 2018 in relation to Shane Halpin RIP. That man is still alive, Shane is dead. William Mulvihill

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2.29: Michelle, your response to my comment at 12.51 is very strange. It has no relevance. I merely asked 12.19 why he thought it relevant to reference a funeral mass with Archbishop Martin as celebrant. The description of it as a Requiem Mass of Gloom is a comment of a total buffoon. Your comment is baffling.

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Archdiocese of Dublin new Diocesan Offices at Arran Quay

ttps://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/20-23+Arran+Quay,+Smithfield,+Dublin+7,+D07+XK85,+Ireland/@53.3462029,-6.2780397,3a,75y,19.27h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqExvGIFSFPferknKFTOZSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x48670c2f10dd7685:0x6179d8cd14517982!8m2!3d53.3464653!4d-6.2778859

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But the most gas thing is the way they make out anyone critcising the cult is a seminary reject. I’d be very wary of a ‘religion’ where half the world seem to be it’s former clergy or trainee clergy.

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3.27: Michelle, how do you know? Dearie, you’ve come on here with all guns a blazing! What ails you?

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Did the bible specify these 72 people more clearly such as mention or inclusion of women?

I realised that something was wrong with rcc when people were getting healing by Donegal healer in a hotel room, whereas few miles away in rcc, no healing. But I give few exceptions to that, such as very few gifted healing priests that I met. Apart from that, nothing. There is one guy doing now similar to Donegal healer as he’s based in Kerry. He’s v v Conservative whereas Donegal healer was v v radical in ways that could break rcc. He was urging me go to pentecostal one.

I remember one young priest from youghal didn’t believe it when a priest from India was doing healing where scores of people fainted.

Guess what, he (india priest) directed some people go to that priest from youghal as he placed his hands on 1st one. He was astonished with his own eyes to see people fainted under his hand. I never saw that priest again. His name isn’t in the diocese of Cloyne as it seems to me he had left or gone etc.

The priest from India was very powerful. I did experience healing from him. No matter how the Trads say it cos it was done in norvo ordus mass.

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Anon at 1.42pm

Thanks a mil re links.

Yes re HS. I believe it.

Pentecostal he said because no faith in rcc or I had no faith etc etc. John gillespie said its faithless re his book ‘the miracle ship’ , lacking in faith as he said many rcc people are lacking in faith cos no healing so forth.That made sense to me.

Few gifted healing priests from abroad that I met were charmastic healing gifted priests.

There is one in Kerry as its a layman very very vconservative as some bishops were praising him. He has some gifts as well which enabled me to forgive my abusers.

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DG, the Gospel does not specify the gender of these disciples, presumably because such things as gender, and gender differentiation, (so important in Judaism) were becoming progressively less important under Jesus.

However, knowledge of Jewish proprietary custom and practice allows us the reasonable assumption that at least some of these disciples must have been women, in order to comply with these customs and practices.

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Anon at 4.48pm
Thanks for your explanation, v much appreciated to enhance my understanding despite very little basic Catholic education.
Yes re reasonable assumption which I agree.

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Anon at 3pm
His name is Brendan Walsh as he lives in tralee. But anyway, he’s based in Kerry.
His website is gone I think (used to be churchgathered).
But his twitter remains :
https://mobile.twitter.com/Brendanwalsh777
I was quite astonished to see that I was able to forgive my abusers. To be honest with you, I didn’t think it would happen in my lifetime. So there’s something about him.

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Thanks DG.
I came across his name.
Regarding forgiveness nothing is impossible to God.

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@ 2:09pm
Your ramblings make no sense Pentecostal? charismatic?healing? and knowing your involvement with all that new age crap you seem be very confused. May you find peace in your Catholic faith, if you have any. You should look for that peace in the shelter of The Sacred Heart and The Immaculate Heart of Mary.

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Anon at 4.33pm
Ramblings?
He was veering towards pentecostal way as I was in charmastic way through healing mass or healing gifted priests.
Yes re confused? Sometimes got bit confused due to lack of basic Catholic education in deaf schools or lingering effects of abuse on myself or new age effects.
As you were all aware that I dabbled in new age therapy big time as I lost the track of myself, of who I am, what am I etc. Some therapies opens the doorway to demonic world or if you like ‘evil’ such as Reiki or TM. I have to admit that it was a huge struggle to get out of it when I realised that it was quite dangerous. Some things happened especially in supernatural which relates to demonic.
If you are a priest, my question to you, did you ever preach to your congregations or more simply ‘your flock’ re the main dangers of new age therapies and its consequences of it if you got stuck in it and can’t get out etc.
John gillespie warned of this danger many many times. He once said, priests or bishops don’t preach about it nor warn the parishioners about dangers of new age therapies especially Reiki, TM or séances etc. That’s one of the reasons to why he was kicked out of church by rcc as he was a Sacristan in a church in Belfast.
Hence he said you have to confess it and renounce it which I did.
Now I would advise you to preach it if you are a priest in a parish. Your Bishop won’t like it cos it would put off parishioners and their monies as well.
Comprende 😉😁🤷‍♀️

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Deaf Guy, thank you for giving the holy ones repeat opportunities to show exactly how holy, understanding, patient and charitable they are. 😉

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The reason why I was looking for healing was the long term effects of the abuse on myself plus pstd as well. Hence healing priests or healing mass etc that’s why I was searching for healing et al.
Its down to something like effects – 25% remaining but it’s not too bad. No nightmares etc. Except for few things that still remain are emotions numb, avoidance and hyperviligance on reduced scale but it could be reserrected if I sense something like similar abuser nearby. But I avoid that when and if I see it and walk away from it.
Healing priests that I met was
:
Fr Rookley deceased.
Fr Joseph bill (India, now deceased but very powerful that I felt or experienced it).
Fr A o Brien from Mt Melleray-deceased. Powerful in a different way. Very unassuming and genuine priest. My view of him changed when I experienced healing.
Fr ‘Joe’ or Joseph Murphy in Youghal. I don’t know where he is now.
John Gillespie and his book :
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Miracle-Ship-Dr-Brian-OHare/dp/1681600250

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3:02pm thank you for sharing name of book but please be careful and do not share details of your private therapists on this blog or elsewhere in the interests of your own safety and well-being.

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DG @ 5:28pm
No I am not a priest and I never got involved with any of that mad new age crap. You were badly advised probably by these useless priests involved in these pentecostal charismatics charades on the go at that time although how you didn’t recognize it yourself I don’t know.🙄

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3.27: Michelle, I am not a woman and child hating Roman priest. Nor am I a name caller. I did use the word “bitch” about commenter at 12.19. If you are familiar with this blog you’ll know that some commenters deliberately print comments to provoke nasty rhetoric against Archbishop Martin, which I find disgusting. But don’t draw stupid conclusions about me which you have done. Have you difficulty with understanding English?

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4:28 that is very racist, you cannot be saying things like that, our country is multicultural and diverse. You cannot reasonably expect everyone these days to speak English as a first language.

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Nothing racist about asking someone about their comprehension of the English language. This blog is international Michelle and not everyone is expected to write/speak the queen’s English. Its ok if you don’t understand.

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5:53 it’s ok Father, I didn’t expect you to admit you were a racist. Ye don’t admit anything and even when ye convicted ye still manage to pop out of some hole in some corner of the world into unsuspecting communities. Ye are an international organisation allright. I had to leave school at 12 but I can still spell paedo because I see it in the newspapers a lot.

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Translation of 4:28:
‘Im a woman hating Roman Catholic (who might be) a priest but am definitely in with Archbishop Martin smarm smarm.’
Well, probably there’s a strong element of fear there and certainly attachment issues, but the use of the insult bitch gives it away. The only sad thing is that his inability to relate to women will have been raised with him repeatedly in the past but he won’t have been able to engage with this feedback.

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6.57: Mr. Translator, I hope your ability to translate an Irish or German text is better than your translation of English texts!!! The accrediting institute should revoke your certificate. Sir, I have never had nor have attachment issues. I have very healthy relationships with women. Do you realise the utter silliness of saying ” the only sad thing is that his inability to relate to women will have been raised repeatedly with him in the past…”. Contemplate your silliness. 😆😆😆😆🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡…

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8:03 Did you notice the bit where I said you were unable to engage with feedback?
Are you wearing a powdered wig or merely trying to talk like Dr Johnson to give yourself an appearance of learning?
Incidentally your attachment style comes across loud and clear. 🤣

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Has anyone ever imagined the history of the ‘Jesus Movement’ had the bulk of Jews, including levitical priests, had been won over to it? Would the priests have relinquished authority and power to the Twelve? Would the Twelve have offered to share these with the priests for harmony’s sake? I doubt both.
By the same token, Roman Catholic priesthood has fought long and hard to protect its authority and power, even to the point of betraying Catholics by covering up child rape by priests.
Priesthood is, historically, as much about the preservation of privilege, power and status as about anything else; perhaps even more so.
Priesthood, it seems, is bad for spiritual business, whatever the deity it serves.

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4:29 look at the hierarchy and lay management in any Diocese, it’s all based on privilege, power & status.

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6.06: For privilege, power and status, I say, COMPETENT, QUALIFIED AND PROFESSIONAL. All Dioceses require lay people of varying degrees of calibre and qualification. It is therefore both pragmatic and sensible to avail of such peoope. It is a lie to distort realities as you have done. Their background socially is irrelevant.

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6.34
You missed the point by the proverbial mile. Those qualities, good in themselves, are not the problem, but the power, priviege and status they bring can be a serious temptation to pride: the temptation to let self-aggrandisement go to the head, to the point of behaving like Hitler on a very bad day.
Humility, a sense of people-service (if ever there was one) is then shown the door, and over-bearance takes its place. Self-preservation becomes a golden calf, and people do all in their power to protect it.
Sadly, people will usually jump at the chance of inflating their self-regard. They, rarely (if ever) jump at the chance of showing humility. It has no wordly attraction.

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7:00
‘to the point of behaving like Hitler on a very bad day.’
It’s terrible isn’t it when you have a bad day and gas a few thousand people.
Whatever you’re smoking, you should try a different dealer, there’s spice in there.

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6:34 it is a lie to use God as a front for your “business”. The obsession with money, property and illicit contradictory behaviour defines you as a “cult”. Of course, transparent background checks are essential in any ethical organisation. No other business gets away with retaining & shunting deviant members around the world.

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Agree with you. I observed those of privilge class in the church say that they pity the ordinary church goers as they have not the strong faith that they have. It was an arrogant comment and it may be in reality that it was tje ordinary church attendee who is nearer to God.

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6.12: Michelle: You are the proverbial trouble shooter. Your responses to my earlier comments are utterly absurd. You are the obsessed one about racism. I never mentioned the word nor do my comments in any way infer racism. What’s racist about asking you if you understood the English I wrote? My question of course was a rhetorical one!! You are way OTT at the tail end of your rant at 6.12. I am no woman or child hating Roman priest NOR am I a paedo. How dare you! I discerned initially that you had an agenda. If you continue to engage in this blog, be prepared for tough, sharp commentary. If you feel you’ll be hurt, stay away. It’s a tough world in this blog.

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6:57pm
PSML – we can all look forward to tough, sharp commentary from Father Anonymous! 🤣🤣🤣

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‘father’ at 6:57
‘Roman priest NOR am I a paedo’

You do realize the words have become synonyms in the past twenty plus years, don’t you.

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Anon at 4.20pm
Yeah re Carl Gustav Jung but his affairs with women put a big question mark. But some bit of his psychology were interesting but one thing that stopped in my tracks was his involvement with the occult.
Also, he was trying to create a cult figure if I recall correctly (new book) . That created an aura around him hence a cult figure. In case if you didn’t know re he treated James Joyce daughter which didn’t work out at the end.
Anon at 4.17pm
Yes I take it on board. All the names I mentioned are dead except for 2 who is alive.
So I won’t mention any therapist/s here as I haven’t been on to any therapy yet since Covid 19.

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4:35
DG, emotional numbness, avoidance and hyperviligance are very
common in survivors of abuse and trauma as I’m sure you know only
too well .Freud also had feet of clay, DG. Not to mention Albert Einstein!
Jung is an interesting character.
Here’s a link to a Youtube channel which explores a selection of his greatest ideas;https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAYxecbGotUz1tjZlymlSc30aENg_S0Xp

The academy of ideas website create content examining the ideas put forth by humanity’s greatest philosophers, psychologists, and economists.https://academyofideas.com/

Why not use what you find useful…?

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Anon at 4.35pm
Yes Jung was/is an interesting character cos some of his ideas was so far ahead of era or period that he was in. Now it’s relevant in some way but not back then. But I have to be aware of his cult factor when taking into account. Jung ideas could be useful in some way.
Freud was obsessed with sex ideas which put me off and not relevant.
Reich was on something else but he stopped it somewhere.
Some of the bodywork is related to Reich’s ideas.
I found that bodywork was quite useful when treating ptsd when talking therapy fails. Talking therapy doesn’t suit deaf people like myself as I realised it. Cos I got nothing out of this. There are other ways of doing it as bodywork comes into that equation. Although it’s very expensive in terms of fees.
I don’t know that much about Albert Einstein except for his theory of relavity which was his greatest feat in history despite his poor scores in science at school.
What I’m interested is a quantum physics cos it’s bit of a mystery just like God a bit of a mystery 🤔
Quantum physics and God = ? 🤔
I don’t like going too deep as regards to quantum physics cos it goes over my head. Just basically a general outline or explanation of what it is. I’m a fan of Feynman, his duels with schwinger, Albert Einstein for his quotes which was sometimes contains a nugget of wisdom.

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7:45
I haven’t looked into quantum physics, DG. Just checked out Feynman.
Interesting stuff! I know what you mean re quantum physics, mystery and God. Psychotherapy is very expensive. Like anything you get what you pay for but I imagine therapy for those in the deaf community might be more expensive. Re body work, have you come across Dr. Alexander Lowen’s work. I think he trained with Reich. You probably know of Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk…? He has a website. I avoid Jung’s more obscure works on the esoteric. You might find this link of interest; https://www.innerexplorations.com/index.html
Has the Irish Deaf Society a list of therapists for referral to members of the deaf community?

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4:35 sadly most of the clergy & co that troll this blog are not our friends and utilise the blog to victim blame, stalk & blacklist contributors etc.

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@7.00pm spot on!

It is gas though!

Although I don’t follow church shite I can usually spot a commenter that’s related personally to my circumstance and my issue with the church , you can tell by the level of detail they give way in their comments and their non partial heated opinion.

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6:53 I particularly love the way they try to identify commenters, as if they personally know everyone with internet access. 🤣 I know who you are, they impotently fume, furious that the truth about their cult is out permanently.

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Oh I meant to say the high point was when they said they’d got a European data protection lawyer involved to shut down the blog despite its owner being in the UK and web host being in the US. This is where Catholic education gets you, folks.

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Anon at 8.40pm
Psychotherapy is essentially a talking shop. Not useful for me.
I’m a huge fan of Dr Bessel van der Kolk. His book is brilliant and seminal work I came across. I read his book now and again going over his comments or views and re read it again. Superb piece of work which he really understood ptsd.
Yes I have heard vaguely of Dr Lowen somewhere but never came across his work.
I more or less avoided irish deaf society cos it’s very small world re everybody knows each other.
I don’t know about referral lists as I think it would require the services of sign language interpreter (which I didn’t want due to 3rd party issues and also issue of confidentiality(broken before in the past) as well.
I did use a bodyworker as that bodyworker was brilliant. Fees were 300e per hour quite expensive but its worth IT. I felt my ptsd got less and less every time I had that treatment.
Psychotherapy plus services of sign language interpreter for an hour will cost you an arm and a leg = astromical or stratosphere amounts of money, say 300 plus 400 or 500 =800 at least or more.
Thats why I avoid it after reading Dr Bessel van der Kolk and also my experience on many sessions of bodywork.
I wholeheartedly agree with Dr Bessel van der Kolk that ‘body’ knows the ‘score’, period.

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9:18
DG, 300 per hour is extremely expensive but specialized so its going to cost. I know a thing or two re talk therapy. A top therapist will charge around 90 to 100 euros per hour, but again well worth it. Another soma trauma therapist is Babette Rothschild;
See; https://www.somatictraumatherapy.com/
You might have come across her work.
Here is a link to Dr. Alexander Lowen books;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B001IO9MTW?_encoding=UTF8&node=492564011&offset=0&pageSize=12&searchAlias=stripbooks&sort=author-sidecar-rank&page=1&langFilter=default#formatSelectorHeader
I can understand reservations re Deaf society and confidentially, etc.
The body certainly knows the score. So does the bank balance, DG.
We’ll compare notes again.
Cheers, DG.

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Please don’t go near Fr. S farragher pp Ballyhaunis to become a priest he is so anti clericalism he shouts and roars.
He wants to shut the door firmly on the church. I can’t understand why Duffy promoted him to high office.

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4:47pm Are you one of the far right Islamophobes that verbally abused Fr Farragher outside Ballyhaunis Church in reprisal for him hosting a blessing for members of the Muslim Community?

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No I am not. Are you one of his buddies. I am only making a comment on vocations today and how people are treated who put there foot forward. I am a Christian.

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4:47 Please be more respectful of the views and opinions of others. Don’t forget what happened to Hitler. It was a long time coming but they got him in the end.
Pax

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I don’t know what to think of Brendan.

Has he something to say or is he just one of those big scary frogs I used to see in the 1960s emerging from bog holes in Co. Offaly?

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Pat at 6:59 yes that’s exactly what I was thinking of. An exercise in the privilege making themselves feel like they’re helping the poor, who don’t get an option!

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6:04 the robbing Peter behind the bike shed to pay Paul in front of the cameras.

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6.55: Ah Pat, are you saying you came out of a Co. Offaly bog hole too? That can’t be true!! Be careful what you write.. 😁😂🤣😃😎😋😋😅😘😘..

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Anyone read the Irish times piece

Bag of coal was €16.50 now €45.00

Madness!!!

Lads all those willy warmers and packs of socks ye get at xmas may come in handy this winter. 🙈🙉🙊

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6:34 the cold weather don’t seem to bother the clergy in the photos posted on this blog. They seem to spend a lot of time in their underwear or in gear I’d never seen anywhere until I found this blog and I don’t mean the clerical garb.

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I have seen certain priests underwear I can assure you with this one it was worn faded and holes were beginning to form, he only ever wore two outfits. Nothing else but saying that while their pretysby is paid for surely their accountable for their own esb ?
Which must be a hard reality for check for people that don’t pay their own bills…
There’s a difference between church and state…

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The word ‘option’ is suspicious , Jesus Christ is you think anyone that uses that word is suspicious I would hate to see how you view everyone in your daily life.
Pat I have worked with many homeless in various circumstances , position and addiction, they do have an aption, some other don’t want to it or the help or to try …sadly 😥

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Anyone see the striking resemblance between pat and the dude in the image at the top of the blog ✌️✌️

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7.14: I agree with you. What a pity..Of all members of the royal family the Queen has been an incredibly Christian, faithful, kind and virtuous woman. A great inspiration…

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I agree the queen was always quite composed, serious like a robot that smiles but she grew up in a man’s world taking a man’s position it was hard for the public to read her, they never knew her personally but from my understanding she had a greater love for animals than humans, they would always know the queen was walking in the door by the amount of dogs that trotted in before her…lol speaks volumes… All the scandals that broke in their family that not even they could cover up , William leaving the family, prince Andrew etc… She was never implicated , lost control or faultered once in her journey, fairplay to her, the only fuck she really made was by not protecting Diana to this day she is still held accountable for it…
Clever lady !

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You are not accurate. William did not leave the family. Harry did. As for Diana she grew up with the family. The same as fergie. They should have known better than Kate.
Diana was an egotist. Private visit to passage centre with cardinal Hume and plenty of cameras. Queen of hearts my backside. Linked to plenty of men.
GOD save the king.
Pax
Garngad Lad

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She was in a disfunctional arrangement where there was 3 people in their marriage it was Charles that was having an affair, so fairplay to her for not playing the good quiet wife and introduced 4th 5th or sometimes 6th member to their marriage. Good for her !

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Let’s be clear- the changes in Dublin were by Gareth Byrne of Mater Dei & Patricia C formally of Scotland now in Dublin! The dark horse is Dermot Farrell the man who won’t say what the plan is!

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