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TOWARDS A “MASCULINE” SPIRITUALITY FOR MEN.

The RCC has always been better at attracting and “keeping” women rather than men.

Catholicism in Ireland since the arrival of Cardinal Cullen and his devotional revolution concentrated on the emotional and the superstitious.

As a general but not exclusive rule, women are superior to men when it comes to owning and expressing emotions.

I think gay men, who are integrated are better at emotions than straight men – but I stand to be corrected.

So Ireland’s females were more drawn into Cullen’s devotional – Mary, the Rosary, the saints, novenas, indulgences etc.

I remember as a child attending Mass in Pollagh, Co. Offaly, that the women and children were inside the church for the whole Mass, while the men played cards outside the door and popped in, on one knee, to be present for the consecration of the Mass.

The men experienced a sense of belonging, integration and community after Mass and in the pub.

When I did my masters in QUB we studied the origin and function of the pub in Irish society. The pub was the one place where men were free from the WOMAN and the PRIEST, as at that time, women and priests did not frequent the pub.

As men and women we share many aspects of our spirituality together.

But as different genders, our total experience of spirituality is different.

Spiritually speaking:

Being a father is a different experience to being a mother.

Being a son is a different experience to being a daughter.

At the level of the integration of our spirituality and sexuality are different experiences for men and women.

Spiritually, men and women experience many things differently – success, failure, joy, sorrow, sickness etc.

When I used to host spirituality events at BELFAST PRIDE, I used to say to the gay Christians that instead of cursing the churches for rejecting them, they should develope their own gay or queer theology and pastoral care.

It’s the same for men. If we are to attract them to the faith, we are going to have to develope a theology and pastoral practice for men.

I know ROBERT NUGENT talks about this. But he seems to be focusing on getting “underground” groups of men praying the Rosary and straining to avoid masturbation!

I think a real, authentic and effective masculine should not be focused on the evil of masturbation.

Very many sexual acts including masturbation end with the person, even if they are an atheist, saying or shouting Oh God!

Can men, and women, find God in sexual pleasure?

Could it, properly looked at, present us with massive new insights.

I published a whole about this in 2005.

This book does not present ALL the answers.

But it does outline avenues of possible progress.

132 replies on “TOWARDS A “MASCULINE” SPIRITUALITY FOR MEN.”

Pat, RN has organised a big event for men in Derry for mid-end of November. You’ve probably seen his promotion of this event on his You Tube videos, particularly in light of his recent Medugorje trip. I admire his efforts to bring men together but his narrow focus worries me. He’s way OTT..Saying that we have, as a church to find some way of reaching out to men. It’s a difficult task. I know a number of men in the parish who are genuinely prayerful and I’ve often thought of organising prayer seminars for them. Spirituality can mean so many things, so I think we need to be very careful in exploring possibilities. Spirituality cannot be any old “thing” – this can become a very shallow concept. There has to be a depth to it.

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It is hypocritical of the Roman Catholic Church to publicly condemn gay love when there are a sizeable number of actively gay priests & volunteers at its core. The truth will set them free.

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Robert Nugent loves the sound of his own voice, he’d fit right in with the very bitchy, territorial and quite formidable types in parishes who would be saying mass if they got half a chance & obsessed with a desire to have power over what is ultimately none of their business.

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“If you don’t like a song then don’t listen to it but don’t try to stop others from listening to it”.
Say NO TO CENSORSHIP OF TRUTH BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

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1.10 if it weren’t for their expert censorship skills the church cult would have completely expired quite some time ago.

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Do people possess money or are they possessed by money? Do womanisers possess women or are they possessed by women? When a man sees a woman, does he objectify the woman or is he respectful?
The biggest coward of a man is to awaken the love of a woman without the intention of loving her. The cycle of modern day hypersexualisation is a choice. People with good Christian values should lean towards the respectful end of the scale.
Heterosexuality does not inhibit a man’s emotions. There was a societal pressure on men to be less emotional. That tide seems to have turned a bit in recent years.

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8.20 How much longer is that arrogant self interested interior design addicted Bishop of Meath, Tom Deenihan going to snigger up his sleeve at the ongoing calls on this blog and eisewhere for the long overdue letter of good standing for Dom Benedict Andersen.

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9:39, Westmeath Examiner is part of Celtic Media Group which includes: The Anglo Celt, Connaught Telegraph, Meath Chronicle, Offaly Independent, Westmeath Examiner and Westmeath Independent.
Why do they turn a blind eye to Tom’s despicable treatment of Dom Benedict?
WESTMEATH EXAMINER NEWS
Bishop Deenihan officially opens new extension at Whitehall NS
WESTMEATH EXAMINER NEWS
Bishop Deenihan to speak at Knock
WESTMEATH EXAMINER NEWS
A Christmas message from Most Rev Tom Deenihan, Bishop of Meath
NEWS NOT PUBLISHED by WESTMEATH EXAMINER
Monk alleges abuse – and retaliation – at Silverstream Priory
Who are Celtic Media Group?
Celtic Media Group is owned and managed by its Irish management team – arising from a management buyout of the company in June 2012 from its former Scottish group of investors, which was facilitated by Lloyds Banking Group. The three board directors are Frank Mulrennan (Chief Executive Officer); John Keogan (Group Finance Director) and John Wood (Chairman – Non-Executive)

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9.39 these self indulgent Irish Bishops & their cronies appear to be a law unto themselves. They destroy lives, openly recruit to avenge whistleblowers that might threaten their profitable set ups and then walk away totally unscathed along with their friends in high places.

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A good read, that book of yours, Pat.
I’m looking forward to the one in the pipeline on your supernatural experiences.

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Trust ‘shamous’ to mention anything and everything but sex. The poor crater gets awful embarrassed about sex talk 😊

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7:30pm
We determine what faith means to us. It is not a rigid set of rules, but a blank diary on which we write our own story of encounter with the modern world. It is the spirit inside of us. A spirit of change; a new perspective of accompaniment; an encounter of dialogue.

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Pat, you made reference to Robert Nugent. He seems now to have had “messages” from our Lady after his pilgrimage to Medujorge. He’s on a mission to get the men of Ireland down on their knees in prayer to help renew the Eucharist and such renewal will involve receiving the Sacred Body and Blood of Jesus on their tongue. We certainly need to renew awe, respect and reverence for this most precious gift. RN is almost like Jesus in his urgency. He is encouraging men all over the country to get down in their knees and pray and prepare for heaven!! Men’s spirituality require a some deep thought and reflection. I hooe we can do this today in clarity of discussion. A lot of midern spirituality is mushy psychology with little bits of zen, buddhism and mindfulness rolled into one. There are many “spiritualities” we can choose, even creating our own, like walking thriugh a forest or akibg a river bank and absorbing beauty. I believe we can discern the Divine all around us but true Christian spirituality cannot ignore scripture, the saints, the patristics, the teachings of tradition and the beautiful writings of all the saints. For me the Eucharist stands at the heart of my spirituality – Christ with us and in us, drawing us to deep union with the Father.

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If that ejit Nugent has been take in by the false Medugorje then anybody with any sense should stay well away from him. Our Blessed Lady has never been near the place, it was set up by those dreadful Franciscans as a money making venue. The Bishops of Mostar continually condemned them, its as bad as the so called House of Prayer set up by the charlatan Christina Gallagher how anyone spent a penny on those dreadful pictures she pedaled of Our Blessed Lady. Apart from having no taste,it tells you a fool and their money are soon parted.

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11:17 I hate to break this to you but setting up a money making racket based on fake miracles and visions is the main front business of the Roman Catholic ‘church’.
All you’re saying is you approve of one racket but not another. 🤣

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1.38 I bet you wouldn’t refuse a handy flight from Knock Airport and I also bet you wouldn’t call into the shrine with a few coins & to say a prayer for a safe flight either.

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5.49 Coins my arse, Knock Shrine has debit & credit card readers everywhere these days. Get with it! This blog is great, my sister got the details from a man in her work. He glued to it. Keep up the good work.

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Martinsays:
Oct 15, 2022 at 9:08 am
If its true that RN has had message from on high, at the demoted Medjugorje site, he has serious mental health problems, that no amount of prayers, wanking can, or will treat, his symptoms.

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@ 1:38pm
You might be laughing now, but you won’t be at the Judgement Seat I’m glad to break it to you 😏

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Many priests today are like old women – prissy, delicate, effete, aloof and removed – afraid of physical graft or of getting their hands dirty.
Gossips, spiteful and cruel – like old unmarried aunts who are a mortgage on the lay people who fund their lifestyle.

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@9:22 – a very accurate and good characterisation of the vast majority of clergy, and bishops. Also, remember, they have been inculcated with a great sense of their elevation, their ontological difference, their specialness, their being set apart etc. It’s a toxic mix, which in the majority of cases just results in the them being in the way you have described. But for some it goes further than that and leads them in to thinking that they can do what they want, including criminal abuse as we have seen so often. When confronted with that, they are in denial, or they just don’t seem to think it’s that big a deal because they have such an entitled view of themselves. This kind of stuff is still being taught to them in seminaries. There is little but a nod to servanthood, rather they are encouraged to see themselves as so incredibly special. Seminary life and training needs to be radically reformed and changed. Otherwise we are going to continue getting the precious, self-indulgent, exclusive priests that we have had for far too long.

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@9.22 the majority who fund their lifestyle these days come under the category of “friends with benefits”. Pensioners pennies are not respected in the grand scheme of things.

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9.22 these priests are underpinned by the pursuit of a cushy lifestyle, regular jaunts to the priest sex saunas in the nearest metropolis or whatever similar pursuit they engage in within the parish house or cars with their inner circles or Grindr pickups.

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@10:56 – you got it ! I used to be a police officer and let me tell you about the number of times I came across priests in lay-bys, cruising places, car parks where they were looking for or having sex in its various guises. it wasn’t worth doing anything about because of the time and labour involved, but we would give them the scaring of their lives for a few minutes. I had them being sick, pissing themselves and worse as they saw their whole lives crumble before them. And to think that these guys were there the next day at the altar being holier than thou. In many ways, I felt sorry for these pathetic creatures, out looking for some physical / sexual connection that was denied to them by their vows of celibacy but which they simply could not do without. The ones who were the real danger were those described by an earlier correspondent who thought they could get away with anything and used the vulnerable and children as their target. Those ones do deserve to be in prison. The rest, well, they are just sad and pitiable men. And, please, do not give me the line about sexual dysfunction being everywhere in society and it is to be expected that you will find it amongst clergy ! Well, I found it proportionately more often and more frequently than I did with any other identifiable group. There is something really wrong with the life and culture of priesthood.

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6:49 Have you tried praying to your invisible friend to rid me of the figments of my imagination you imagine?

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“Chris” - the second priest to break ranks by going public on Bishop Christopher Broomesays:

An ABC investigation has uncovered a series of scandals involving priests in the trouble-plagued Diocese of Broome, including one who impregnated a school teacher and a clergyman who returned to India before police could interview him over indecent assault allegations made by a young girl.

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9.24 priests impregnating school teachers? Are they abusing their powers in educational systems? What does this mean for students if their teachers are being impregnated by priests?

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Here, Father Ciaran Dallat impregnated a parishioner on a pilgrimage. As a reward, he was promoted.

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By Post Author

5.44pm you cannot be serious? Surely not? I didn’t think anyone young enough to get pregnant went on those pilgrimages. Where is the child now?

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6:17 that is very sad, poor woman. She must have wished to keep the child when she let it be known that she was pregnant by Fr Dallat.

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As a matter of interest, Canon Peter Collins has frequently spoken about a spirituality suited to men. I understand he has had considerable ‘success’ in this area.

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Under a protocol set up by Pope Francis to deal with abuse cover ups, the Vatican has ordered a fresh investigation into retired Bishop Christopher Saunders. A Vatican observer says the inquiry is a “significant development” but that the findings may not be made public. This is the first time The Vos Estis Lux Mundi protocol has been used in Australia. A police investigation into Bishop Saunders ended without charges being laid. The Archbishop of Brisbane Mark Coleridge has been appointed to conduct the Vos Estis Lux Mundi inquiry. An inquiry can be triggered by allegations of the abuse of children or vulnerable adults, the possession of abuse material or the covering up of allegations. This investigative protocol was established to combat abuse and to increase accountability for senior clerics including bishops.

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Thanks for saying dearly departed. I always feel something is not right when we confine the prayer to faithful departed.

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This is a totally personal perspective and not objective but the rosary is a devotion I have never liked and never seen the point to (unless you were an illiterate lay brother) but reading this I have just realized that I find it suspect in some way when a man is a rosary devotee. I think it might be the superstition attached to it that it will save the world and so on.
There are other, far more masculine, devotions.

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10.11: A very impoverished opinion. The Rosay is a beautiful prayer which takes us through many moments in the life of Jesus and Mary. I find great solace when I take my time reflecting on even one decade of the Rosary. It’s silly to make any psychological reference to the Rosary and men as if to suggest there’s a dysfunctional, spiritual undertone. The Rosary is just another form of prayer which, when prayed reflectively is quite beautiful. Do you prefer the Stations of the Cross? There is nothing superstitious about praying the Rosary. The quiet, repeating of the Hail Mary, for me, is consoling.

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11.25 the Roman Catholic Church impoverishes many of their rights to the basics of human dignity. Arrogant in the extreme to be engaging in proselytism on a blog set up by Bishop Pat to assist victims & survivors of church related abuse and wrong doing. You’d do well to acknowledge that there are very good reasons why you “feel the need to stalk this blog”, Fr/Volunteer.

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@ 10: 11am
I think you are very suspect, The Holy Rosary is a beautiful devotion, neither masculine nor feminine. Our Lady of The Holy Rosary pray for this suspect, he/she sorely needs it.

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12.29: I havent a clue what you’re talking about by accusing me or anyone of “proslytism”..or your accusation that I “stalk” this blig…As I suspected, you’re unable to coherently discuss intelligently. Even your assertion that “men who are rosary devotees..” are suspect is absurd. Explain. Intelligently.

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10.11
There is no such thing as masculine or femine devotion. Love does not honour the gender binaries of men.

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Fr John Purnell worked under Bishop Saunders in the Diocese of Broome and was the first to go public with his concerns about the veteran clerics behaviour. He said “after three drawn out years it’s welcome news that Rome and the Holy Father have realised that a church process was necessary and is underway to discover the truth”. “Uncovering the truth is precisely what Vos Estis is about, and hopefully this process will lead to justice and healing”.

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10.15 Thank you for this very interesting example of what goes on. We are relatively new to the blog in support of a family member also experiencing obstruction, interference & difficulties & noticed that one of the other whistleblower priests resigned because nothing was being done about this abusive Bishop despite the allegations made to Rome and the police investigations. Bishop Broome resigned and continues to be financed by the Roman Catholic Church.

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One of the whistleblower priests was one of at least five diocese staff who contacted Catholic Professional Standards to complain that Bishop Saunders remained in office whilst investigations were underway. He says the handful of people who knew about the allegations were instructed to remain silent and to continue working alongside Bishop Saunders so as not to tip him off. After several months of inaction, this priest known only as “Chris” made the decision to resign from the diocese. He says “this has had a devastating impact not just on me, but many others”. He also says “It’s like the Church has learnt nothing”.

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I do keep commenting here that the church has, in fact, learned nothing, as shown by many comments here.
Any feeble pretence by the Roman Catholic church of having any safeguarding is driven by insurers or state pressure, and to keep the bishops out of prison.
I think Australia is the country which has got closest to enacting law forcing the church to behave by making it illegal not to break the seal.

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1.42 I agree, the Australian approach to amending legislation to create more accountability by Bishops and colleagues who cover up abuse allegations should become the international standard. Otherwise, we have to conclude that the Legislators in governments are aiding & abetting abuse through inaction and failure to change laws to accommodate victims and survivors.

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Why all masculine or feminine? Why not both? Maynooth in my time was a hotbed of gay sexuality.. Sunday aft bus trips to Inn and Out on the Liffey.. 66.. Incognito.. sticky sheets in Middle Pats and the infamous pink corridor.. bleeding but afraid to go to doc. Too embarassing..no condoms ever. .listening at doors to sex.. checking out new first year arrivals..loads of booze..Caulfields..summer holidays in London.. gay bars with fellow sems..thank you Nazareth house/Marymount sisters.. randy deacons bringing summer boyfriends to St. Marys for ‘sleepovers’.. Christmas IV Div dinner.. check out early 2000s classpieces lol.. after ordination relieved to be away from this.. hated reunions.. too camp and very embarassing.. in parishes discovered married ladies in particular took a shine to their new curate.. memorable encounters in hotels.. bedrooms after husbands left for work..paid for sex many times…male/female/ts/tv. Thank you escort ireland. i even had an encounter at the back of a classroom while class gone for choir practice.. with a lovely teacher.. female ..way older…now years later I have a female partner.I have left priesthood ..time to finally be honest..Still not satisfied.. Never marriage .. prob never any kids now..solemnised too many weddings.. so many gone now.. i like my online hook ups with men and yes I spent a few lovely evenings at The Boiler House. Thats the sick/ fucked up/ mixed up life of an Irish ex padre..good topic today Bishop Pat..

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10.40 thank you for your insight into your former life in seminary and in parish. We wish you well and hope you somehow find healing and inner peace. Take care.

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Maynooth sounds like an Irish seminary that should have been closed down years ago. No wonder troublesome priests graduate from there going on to cause mayhem in parishes countrywide. The trouble is will the likes of Fr Ryan McAleer and other Irish connected clerical deviants such as Abbot Richard Rawhide Purcell, Mark Kirby etc., currently exported around convents and universities in Europe & further afield do even more damage to the reputation of Irish clerics.

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Rawhide Purcell spent a year in Maynooth c/o Killaloe diocese and kicked up a good time there.. and then in Roma.. gay paradise.. life as abbot was v sexually frustrating and soul destroying surrounded by elderly meb. Even the kitchen now subcontracted to outside caterers..

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10.40: Sir, ex priest, confused in every way, this is your f****d up former and present way of life. All your decisions in the knowledge (morally) – hit parties in Maynoith, excursions to gay saunas, bedroom orgies, chasing and EXPLOITING, ABUSUNG married ladies…for that’s exactly what you did, not seeming to care one iota!! Now youre doing likrwise with casual hook ups with men. And – you want us to have sympathy for you or to enoble your active promiscuity? From what I can discern, you seem to have been born with a sexual deficiency and a very unsavoury, kinky sex drive. Cop on. Your comment is a sad reflection on YOU and no one else. Perhaps you should have left while a student. Your behaviour would have warranted it.

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Ha ha .. log in the others eye etc.. from bible if i remember correctly 12..45 i lived a pretty normal v sexual seminarian life late 90s before ordination.. post ordination obvs a bit different.. nobody ever abused.. all consentual.. since leaving priesthood life alot duller sexually.. maybe I should have stayed..married women are the most randy.. once kids reared often v bored.. bored hubbies too etc.. over 50s ladies so frustrated and menopausal . Great combos.. happy days.. Bishop begging me to go back.. who knows.. boiler house too risky now..monkey pox etc

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2.22 your Maynooth seminary education obviously left you with selective amnesia, Fr.

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RN and Fr P. Devlin should set up a group for young men who have issues with masturbation. How dare these men pleasure themselves? I wonder what age group they would both target.

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MAM – Men Against Masturbation
18 – 35 (no old men)
Smooth guys your mentor is Robert
Hairy guys your mentor is Fr Paddy

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It would make one wonder why he was doing 100mph on the motorway in 2017. A continued history of speeding offences – a quick get away after a guilty act?

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12.14 a cleric with a double life needs a fast reliable motor! An obliging police man was previously useful for disposing of the speeding ticket but that’s all been rumbled now. Progress is slow but progress is happening.

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Why a gender-binary spirituality? Aren’t such notions just silly, and reminiscent of the age-old Catholic neurosis about sex? Boys’ schools; girls’ schools? Etc?

Jesus must have numbered women among his disciples, especially among the pairs he sent out to preach and heal in his name. Jewish convention required that only women minister to women. Did the 72 minister only to men? This is what is suggested by the belief that Jesus dispatched only males.

So, if Christ’s disciples comprised both sexes, where in the Gospel does he tailor for both separately in terms of spirituality?

In the Gospel of John, Jesus addresses his disciples, in what is sometimes called the ‘high priestly prayer’ (though God knows why, since Jesus was not a priest), and speaks of love in a way so impassioned that it could be understood only as, by Jewish religious and social convention, an appeal to the ‘feminine’. And yet, only men were present. Or so we assume.

Seeking a male and female spirituality respectively notionalises God as self-disconnected. This is wrong, and is the work of men, literally, not of God. Ultimately, it’s a mysogyny.

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Between Paddy Mc being obsessed with abortion & Paddy D with masturbation – are there any normal clergy in D&C?

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No offence, but if more than one of my children had signed up to become a Priest I would be raging.

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I am absolutely fascinated that Robert can claim to be a traditional Catholic yet support the fake Medjugorje. You literally can’t have both and the fact that he thinks he can, indicates that he is not, in fact, a traditional Catholic. Or even an orthodox one.
Apart from the whole devotional thing I think he is unwittingly revealing things in the Irish church which he doesn’t mean to, including that Catholics have no understanding of their faith.
The test is always to tell someone you have no interest in the cult of Fatima. If they start raging that you’ve got to and you’re not Catholic, they lack the most basic understanding of the Catholic faith.
I think this complete ignorance is the real reason for where we are.

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Traditional Catholic or an orthodox one? You people are Pharisees with your legalistic distinctions.

God is love. If you are not of love, you are not of him.

You won’t be judged on whether you were traditional or orthodox, whatever that means. You will be weighed on love.

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Spot on. When will they ever see? The teachings of Jesus is all about love and respect for each other the basic teachings of humanity and the meaning of the Eucharist.
Robert appears to spend a lot of time praying with men and is he hallucinating as he says Jesus and Our lLady are telling him to set up these prayer groups. Is God saying that he will have to leave his family ? When does he get family time?

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3:40, if you read my comment very carefully you will see that nowhere do I say I am Roman Catholic. 🤣

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Robert fell for the nonsense that is Silverstream and the private revelations of Mark Kirby (and I don’t mean Mark’s “whoopsie moments” either)

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I would agree with RN on some things and not on others. He is a man of prayer and seems to have a high prayer quotient. Some people with a lower or non existent prayer quotient might struggle with what he is saying or scoff at what he is saying.
Men can have some patterns of behaviour that they might want to reflect on. RN has spoken out about some patterns of behaviour. Some might not like to be challenged on their way of life.

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I am thinking of becoming a priest, can someone advice me which is best order to join? I am single man and have deep interest in serving church. I have looked into jesuits but got no reply. I look forward to replies here. Many thanks.

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Brush up your English first.
All you need to know is on the internet.
You do know this blog is about sanctimonious hypocrites and the cult of the Roman church and being one of the wealthiest conglomerates on the planet?
Methinks you’re an agent provocateur.

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Yes I agree- try and brush up your English and get educated a little bit first. To be a priest, a basic requirement is to be literate.

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3.44 John, me aul mucka, me thinks you do need your head read. Don’t waste your life, it is too precious and sure ain’t no dress rehearsal. Go get ‘em kid.

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I am a current seminarian in Maynooth and I can assure you that the summer of love, was not only a few years ago…….

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The flag featured is that of Iceland. Are there any Catholics in Iceland ? Are there any Icelandic seminarians in Maynooth ? Just an observation. If so, I think this chap at @5:59 should be a bit more careful, unless he wants to be identified ! Or is could be a false flag operation. !!

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Can we visit ?

Might be a few oh gods in there or are they all gay , could do with a bit of straight no strings attached fondling, fuck all happening here 😁

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My English is fine, I passed all the exams. I am not a hypocrite. I am good honest decent irish man seeking vocations to religious life.
Can anyone not recommend me a community please?

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You really shouldn’t be bitter Tony Rice, you got a decent education and life out of it, now that you are out.

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John you will see from the responses critcising your English and telling you to get educated ‘a bit’ that the main requirement for religious life and priesthood is to be a pompous, patronizing git.
Don’t do it. The company is awful and trust me you will always be seen as the poor cousin and an object of ridicule.

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7.42 well said, best he steer well clear of that pompous, self serving shower of cover up merchant priests and their cronies.

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Tried to join the army at 28 only to find out the cut of age is 26 , unless you apply through apprenticeship …
Beware folks it’s a conspiracy !

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Pat, women have always seemed mire attractive to prayer, faith, spirituality and church involvement than men…How many men, as a matter of interest, attend your congregation as against women.

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We live in a geration where women are busy trying to prove that they can do everything a man can , and losing their uniqueness.

Women were not designed to do what men can , women were created to do what men can’t. It’s about balance.

-denzel Washington

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I did mention that point recently how we/I tend to scream ‘oh God’ or ‘when we have epic sex… A lay person. Not at all religious. Ironic though. 😂

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https://youtu.be/7_uqyZ8XFCQ
Pat I fail to understand a small niggling notion. While you stood strong on your morals and principles even when clergy broke their vows of celibacy , you crucify and condemn them. Did you not make a vital mistake yourself by conducting illegal sham marriages in your shed .. was your mistake bad enough to be condemned , is their mistakes bad enough to be condemned .. I’m confused ?you did state in one news piece you didn’t see what you were doing wrong …but…

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