The Irish Times Peter Boylan
Recent revelations of the horrific extent and nature of sexual, psychological and physical abuse over decades at schools owned by the Catholic Spiritan order have prompted renewed shock and trauma on the one hand and the standard church response of belated apology and promises of reform on the other.
The horror of clerical abuse has been especially pervasive in Ireland given the extent of the control exerted by the church in this country.
We are familiar with the historical circumstances in which responsibility for and ownership of education and large swathes of health and social care was both ceded to and actively acquired by the church over more than 150 years. I see it as a twin legacy of both colonisation and “Cullenisation”, ie the success of Paul Cullen, the mid-19th century archbishop of Dublin, in fostering and promoting Catholic religious orders in Ireland.
Cullen was instrumental in securing separate and clerically controlled – but state-supported – Catholic education, overturning the aims of the 1831 national school system which envisaged non-denominational tate education. After 1922, the Church’s grip on education increased.
Seven of the largest “public” hospitals in Ireland are owned by private Catholic entities and receive more than €1 billion of State funding each year, and more in capital grants.
Catholic control of the private healthcare sector is even greater. Twelve of Ireland’s 18 private hospitals adhere to Catholic ethos
The significance of Catholic ethos extends beyond women’s reproductive healthcare. We have started a debate in this country about assisted dying, but Catholic teaching holds that this would be intentional taking of life and never permissible. Should a future dying with dignity Act be passed, Catholic hospitals will opt out precisely as they do today on abortion, IVF and contraception.
The Catholic Church is fully entitled to provide health and education, but if it wants a “parallel and alternative option” to that of the State, delivered according to its ethos, it should not be funded by the State.
– Peter Boylan is a former master of the National Maternity Hospital
PAT SAYS
The Irish State should no longer be funding RC institutions, be it hospitals or schools.
The involvement of the RCC in schools, hospitals and other institutions has been a cathostrophic failure and an international scandal.
The experiment of the RCC running institutions that were funded by the tax payer has been a total disaster for over 100 years.
If the state needs new partners in the private sector, those partners need to be beyond reproach and subject to the strictest possible inspection and scrutiny.
The partnership between the Irish State and the RCC has caused untold suffering and misery.
BISHOP PAT BUCKLEY 
70 replies on “REMOVING STATE FUNDING FROM CATHOLIC INSTITUTIONS.”
Ya worth reading what Boylan has to say about Catholic Church all right. Paid up member of Irish Times elite.
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From the characteristics of cults:
1. The group has a polarized, us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
2. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
Source: https://janjalalich.com/help/characteristics-associated-with-cults/
3. Cults often believe that they alone have the truth.
4. Some cultic groups discourage members from thinking independently. The “thinking,” as it were, has already been done for them by the cult leadership; the proper response is merely to submit. . . .
Source: https://andynaselli.com/sociological-characteristics-of-cults
Not forgetting the great fear and suspicion of anyone outside the cult. Thank you, Seanie, for confirming what we already knew.
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11:15am. It that a sly dig at Irish Times readers?
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Peter Boylan is a terrible advert for the Spiritans, who taught him when he was a pupil of theirs at St Mary’s College, Rathmines? Or was he asleep during his RE lessons?
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He received his entire education at Church-run or Church-founded institutions, both in the schools he attended and then UCD and that’s the thanks he gives them.
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Pat, where would you be without the most voiceferous anti Catholic bigot, Peter Boylan? You drink his bigotry. What is catastrophic about the education and health care provided by the Catholic Religious? You’re very prone to grand hyperbole. Anything anti catholic is your great pleasure. While I accept the egregious abuse crimes are horrendous, the Church has, overall, provided a great service in both education and health. However, personally I feel a new, modern Ireland must and should have complete responsibility for health and education. The Church should now concentrate its resources on true evangelization. But your sniggering hatred is gross and unacceptable. It’s ugly.
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The Roman Catholic Church believes in having its cake & eating it without consequences. Fingers in every pie.
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Show me first your penny!
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12:15 more like 30 pieces of silver!
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SANGJU, South Korea, Oct. 26 (Yonhap) — A German priest was confirmed dead in a fire at a reclusive Catholic monastery in the southeastern city of Sangju police and fire officials said Wednesday.
The blaze started at one of 12 one-floor residence halls inside of Carthusian Cloistered Monastery in Sangju, 270 kilometers southeast of Seoul, at 10:34 p.m. on Tuesday, they said.
The body of the 55-year-old Catholic monk from Germany was discovered in a hallway, they said.
Police and firefighters plan to look into the exact cause of the fire.
It is the only Carthusian monastery in Asia. Carthusian monks — estimated to number around 450 globally — are almost completely cut off from the world, even from their families.
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You love us Catholics really, you spend everyday talking about us and we think nothing of you!
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6:11 Yet another revelation from the Toxic Tinas & Tony’s!!
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Why is Dr Peter Boylan so obsessed with abortion? What happened to the medical principle “first do no harm”?
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More his line to campaign for a universal, free at the point of use NHS, such as we have in NI. Amazingly, abortion is the only totally free universal procedure in the Irish heath system. If you go to a GP, stay in hospital or even go to A&E you pay but as for abortion – no charge.
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From which RCC diocese, institution, or college, will the next tranche of abuse scandals emerge? Now, don’t worry, all you professional careerist catholic bishops, priests, and religious, including the ‘holier than thou’ cathbot brigade. There’s always MORE scandals to come into the public domain.
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It’s all about the money and this asset rich RC can well afford to self fund.
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Buckley you are an evil twisted bastard. Let us move on and forgive us our trespasses. You are not and have never been perfect. I didn’t know the age he was when I did it, he never told me.
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Not until you have effective safeguarding in place and the exact assets of your cult are published.
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Perish the thought, this’ll do for my time! 😇
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11:17 After Bishop Patsy Buckley, Patsy McGarry is our Hero. ❤️
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I live in the UK and here pretty much all hospitals are state owned and run, non-denominational and NHS. Only very few hospitals have religious affiliations and are private, and frankly are not the places that you would want to be if you have something seriously wrong with you – too limited, too small and too inexperienced. Catholic schools do have some autonomy, usually these days through Academy status, and have their own governors etc, but are massively funded by the State. We have seen in the past how these two authorities come in to confrontation / difference of opinion when it comes to things like sex education. By and large, they seem to work around each other, and given that Catholicism in the UK isn’t driven by a culture wars mentality, the Church tends to soft pedal on some of the more contentious issues – eg sexuality / diversity etc – which could be a flash point. To be honest, I suspect that in most Catholic schools in the UK the staff and governors pretty much are more aligned with a secular understanding and implementation of these issues rather than with a literal and hardline Catholic catechism / doctrine / morality. The issue about staff and employment and sexuality / diversity has been nipped in the bud by the government/ courts essentially protecting teachers in law in Catholic schools and not allowing schools / governors to unilaterally terminate a teacher whose private / relationship / moral life is not in exact alignment with Catholic teaching. So, generally, there are few flash points. I think the Catholic bishops in the UK have realised that if they want all the goodies, like the money and some independence in Catholic education, then they have to play ball and choose their battles very carefully. In the long term I suspect that the State will continue to gain more and more influence over these areas, and Catholicism will just be a nominal flag in Catholic schools. The real problem for the UK government is the burgeoning of Islamic schools that do not understand the modus operandi that Catholic schools have, and where there are still rather extreme and. hard line attitudes which stand in opposition to British values, particularly about gender and sexuality, as well as the proselytising culture of Islam, and its distain for those who are not Muslim. This is going to be an area of conflict in the future, not just in schools but in society in general. The Islamic schools need to realise early on that this is a battle that they will not be able to win, and that the State will prevail by and large. So, it is in their interests to learn the lessons of Catholic education and become more emollient, flexible, and compromising, and accommodating to British values, if they want to continue to have an Islamic culture /schools / education here in the UK.
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You must remember that Ireland does not have an NHS (though NI does). It is like the pre-NHS days in the UK where you had a plethora of voluntary hospitals, funded by charities, friendly societies and the like. That’s why there is a network of Catholic hospitals. The last Catholic hospital in NI – the Mater Infirmorum, Belfast – only entered the NHS in 1972, having been treated badly by the Stormont regime and was funded by Catholics but open to all.
Same with schools. Most schools in Ireland were established by the churches (Catholic and Anglican) and the State never seriously tried to roll out a State education system, unlike England where many schools were built after the 1947 Education Act. In Ireland the State either didn’t have the money or didn’t see the need to duplicate the near universal and popular Church schools.
These Church assets saved the State a fortune, whether in the UK or Ireland. Even today, to take one example, the diocese of Arundel & Brighton spends c. £23m annually on schools. It is a moot point as to what value it gets, given the doctrinal ignorance and lapse rate of Catholic school pupils, but for the present, the Church subsidises the education system, not the other way round.
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The Church does subsidise the education system in England, and probably did get a quid pro quo in return – especially control over religious education. However, I suggest that this is very much diminished, partly because head teachers and teachers themselves, although Catholic, are discriminating in their application of the full force of Catholic teaching. This is backed up by the E&W bishops who by and large do not do the Broglio / Gomez USA style culture wars, and tend to be more flexible and liberal in their interpretation and application of Church teaching. Not that I’m complaining. I much prefer to see young Catholics with broad, wide, inquisitive and diverse views about things rather than rigid hard line orthodox Catholicism. If our Catholic schools produce kids like that, then that is a good service and value for money. I would be really worried if we were producing culture war warriors of the future.
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It’s not appropriate for members of an internationally recognised abuser of human rights to have access to data for vulnerable patients or students. There has been too many incidences proving that data has been exploited for wrongful purposes.
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On that basis, the British Government should get out of heathcare in NI, given its human rights abuses during the Troubles eg Bernie O’Connor and the Hooded Men, and its torture chambers in Gough Barracks and the Castleregh Holding Centre, and not forgetting Diplock trials, internment without trial, prison ships, strip searches in Armagh, Kincora and the Military Commission trials in Long Kesh
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Where would we be without the great Mr. Boylan? He benefited from the hospitals run by religious for his very gross salaries. He revolts now at the very name Catholic. His own profession of medicinal care is frequently before the courts in cases of utter negligence where many patients died or who were misdiagnosed or worse still – the deliberate non disclosure of documents re: diagnosis and prognosis. His treatment of the Sisters of Charity re: St. Vincent’s Hospital was and is a great shame and he did so very disingenuously. They were treated like dirt by him.
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9.40: Abortionists are an ugly, violent lot, their so called “compassion” is fake. Look at the pro abortionists in the USA and here…no beauty of thought or aesthetics…How could anyone who supports and approves the killing of the innocent baby have inner beauty, miss anonymous?
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Interesting slip to mistake pro-choice for pro-abortion. It’s almost as if you know so-called ‘pro-life’ is nothing of the sort and actually anti abortion.
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Peter Boylan is an amazing man and defender of a woman’s right to abortion. He should be applauded and thanked for his unwavering support.
It’s my body and it’s my choice, as a woman. Thankfully now, I do not have to travel to the UK for my abortions anymore, and it is because of people like Peter that this is possible. Thank you Peter.
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Two bodies, in fact.
https://www.humancoalition.org/resources/womans-body-babys-body/
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6.24: Pro choice = pro abortion. Always. Do proper research.
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7.30: And – pro abortion = killing of an unborn child. A morally reprehensible act.
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Peter Boylan is the anti-Christ. Even Robert Nugent speaks ill of this pleb and Robert loves every man, apart from young beautiful masturbating ones. Peter is neither young nor beautiful.
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10:38 Robert Nugent is a demented Vlogger a bit like that Galway man deposited in Killaloe.
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Pat, Big Brother is returning to itv 2 next year and applications are out, would iou please consider applying as I think you would be the best craic ever.
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10:40 Bishop Pat doesn’t need to go on Big Brother, he IS Big Brother.
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Is anyone else struggling to get to see their GP? What is this place coming to?
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Yep. All the time. You phone, wait 45 minutes for a reply, only to be told that all appointments for the morning have gone, and to phone back at 1 pm to get an afternoon appointment. You do the same in the afternoon, another 45 minutes, but no appointment available, phone back tomorrow morning. Only to be repeated. When asked if they could give you an appointment for the next tranche available, you are told they are not allowed to do that and you. have to phone back to obtain one. And this is only for the GP to phone you back. And when you are not feeling well, otherwise why would you be phoning in the first place ?! Eventually, the GP might call back, and will do all in his / her power to stop you having a face to face appointment. I usually persist, only then to have a face to face appointment when I get a GP who is dressed inappropriately and unprofessionally, and is condescending and essentially lets you know that it is an impertinence that you are there. I’ve given up. I go up the road to a private GP, pay, but get seen that day and without all the baggage. I’m lucky, I can afford to do so. Many, I know, can’t. I think the GPs are intent on limiting their work load as much as possible, driving people in to private healthcare, or going to A&E. Most of the GPs in my practice only work part-time because they still earn enough to live in the nice houses, drive their Volvos, send their kids to the private school, go on skiing holidays, and generally enjoy a nice life. Work / life balance, my arse !
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When you add 10 million to the UK population in a matter of 10 years, without a commensurate expansion of public services, there are bound to be longer waiting lists and shortages.
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I think the RCC say it best, when they say nothing at all.
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No self respecting government should be financing the Roman Catholic Church of proven paedophile protectors worldwide.
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Pat – quick question. A PP I know has reached age 75 and has offered his resignation as per Canon law, but made it clear he would like to continue as he is on very good health and has great help from the laity to run the Parish. The Archbishop of Glasgow came for a visit last week and said he doesn’t allow clergy to stay on past retirement, but has allowed him to remain as administrator until after Christmas. The man is upset and never expected this. Out of interest, is there any appeals process, or do you think a petition to Archbishop Nolan will help? It’s not as if we have a stock of Priests awaiting posting to a Parish. The PP in question is a good and holy man.
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‘a good and holy man’
Your query might have been credible until you made the mistake of adding these words, which cast it into the realms of fiction.
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The Abp may be nervous of anyone appearing his senior? It’s actually right that abps should scarper promptly because a PP is not an authority in the same way.
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Tony, I’m afraid in the totally unjust RC system the PP has little or no room for appeal.
Its disgraceful, given the shortage of priests, that this healthy man is being forced out.
I fear Nolan will not listen to anyone 😞
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12:40 Bishop Nolan definitely will not change his mind about the retiring PP desiring to stay on now that it has been mentioned on this blog. He and the other Bishops will not want to lose face by appearing to succumb to Bishop Pat Buckley. The number of deviant money, kiddy & wife fiddling priests truthfully reported on this blog who remain in office confirm Bishops determination to place finances & image of Church well above any human suffering caused to the public by their members.
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Is Derek Ryan CSsR joining Meath diocese? At least that’s what someone reported on yesterday’s blog. He would be a huge loss to the Reds…..he is their poster boy.
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Is he still a rainbow stole aficionado?
https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/gaa/whistling-priest-swaps-prayers-for-players-to-referee-louth-senior-football-final/40995751.html
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3.35
What a bigoted comment. It’s an African enculturated stole. It looks as if they are in Africa.
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Ex CSsR Tony Rice should be asked about the quality time spent with Derek.
It seems Ryan Holovlasky and Derek have also struck up quite the friendship.
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Tony Rice got over that entire saga. The drama that unfolded that time in Clonard and then subsequently Dundalk was a disgrace & a certain Monk will know who was to blame for all that.
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Only in Ireland could you have an abortion-mad doctor in charge of a maternity hospital (or anti-maternity hospital if he had his way).
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The SDLP-leaning, Brit-bashing, Prod-baiting columnist and controverialist Jude Collins has just published his memoirs, which include his two years in Maynooth. This was before the Council so there won’t be any reminisces of the “summer of love” / “give it to me, Dawayne” type, but it should be interesting, none the less. Would you like me to send you a copy as a Christmas present, Pat?
https://www.derryjournal.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/born-on-the-twelfth-of-july-memoir-published-by-st-columbs-college-alumnus-jude-collins-3928571
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That’s a very kind offer. I’m not keen on the SDLP. Never have been. Too close to the RCC.
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OK, I’ll post one to Larne.
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2:39 Peter Damian was already describing clergy sexual abuse as a problem in the 11th century. That was before the council and the summer of love, but we can’t expect you to have any understanding of history.
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Abuse cases rose sharply in the 1960s, carried on rising and peaked in the 1980s.
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Pat Buckley, listen here – There isn’t a grant those boyos and gals up at the Parochial House haven’t applied for and the heating on full blast as they sit around the table filling in forms, toasting themselves courtesy of the Irish government energy bonus. No one in the parish can get them to answer the door they so busy with paperwork but we can see the steam from the heating boiler on 24/7.
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Bigotry. I live in the UK, and with my stipend as a priest, I certainly couldn’t afford to have the heating on 24/7. It might surprise you to know that my first concern is that the church and parish meeting rooms are warm, and before you go off on that one, that includes groups like Alcoholics Anonymous and St V de Paul that feed and clothe those in need, plus those that are providing a cheap/ pro bono counseling service.
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5:18 the post @ 3:52 does not refer to the UK.
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There is something fundamentally wrong about places like Cistercian college in Roscrea getting state funding and grants. This funding allows an abbot have a dirty affair with a priest in the school kitchen.
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This blog plumbs even greater depth of anti-catholic hatred and bigotry by the day. Peter Boylan – the well know abortionist – has his own axe to grind against the church, but he forgets where his private education, which was publically funded came from.
This blog is akin to a sewer, or a septic tank – a place where shit is weclomed and stirred by the master stirrer himself. Buckley must spend hours trawling the internet in search of negative stories on the church. But since he has nothing else to do that’s hardly surprising. The devil and idle hands………..
You will answer for your actions Bishop Buckley, you will answer before God.
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This Blog is a bit like DYNO ROD. It sheds light into sewers and helps to unblock them.
If you and the institution you are aligned with wasn’t so full of caca this blog would be redundant.
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Pat, don’t tell him that. He might notice the blocked sewers you deal with are in unholy mother church. 👻
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3.52: Tough shitty you liar. Begrudgery. If you’re stuck for dosh I’ll give you my surplus…and I’ve lots if it. The grants are available to all…But of course you prefer lies. I’m sure Pat will be entitled to grants too…
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It’s honestly fascinating how furious the cathbots are at the idea of removing state funding from things they run.
It’s almost as if the interest isn’t doing good! 😂
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What’s the difference between a priest and acne?
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Most people on here,say their shit don’t stink …
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Fr Emlyn in an unseemly dispute with his local council over money.
https://armaghi.com/news/south-armagh/toddlers-and-parents-locked-out-of-south-armagh-community-centre-after-repairs-dispute/191241
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Pat ,could you list the 6 hospitals not connected to the sick ,criminal Roman church please?
Just so we can avoid the bastardos in the other 12.
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