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CAN ANY CATHOLIC / CHRISTIAN CELEBRATE A EUCHARIST?

A question from yesterday’s comments

Jesus instituted the Breaking of the Bread / Eucharist at the Last Supper on the night before he died.

He told ALL there to celebrate like this whenever they met ‘ in memory of Him.

At this time there were no priests or bishops and the Breaking of the Bread took place in peoples houses.

There were no vestments or altar cloths, no incense and very few if any formalities.

This was also 1200 years before the term “Transubstantiation” was introduced.

The MASS that later developed took decades and centuries of evolution.

The RCC believes and teaches that all this development was on the authority given to it by Christ when He said:

Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them” (Matthew 18:18-20).

Not all Christian Churces agree with te RCC interpretation of those words.

ME

Personally, I am very much of the Catholic tradition, and have no essential problems with any of the Sacraments, including Holy Orders.

I agree with the Laying on of Hands and the prayers of ordination associated with that Sacrament.

But I do not agree with the clericalism that has overtaken both the priesthood and episcopate.

Nor do I appreciate that a very small number of Church members – the clerics – have taken control of everything and hijacked everything.

And now they say to the rest of us:

“WE will only give you the Sacraments if you do everything we tell you to do and agree 100% with us and our teaching”.

The Sacraments primarily belong to God and operate as sources of grace at God’s bidding.

A NON CLERICAL EUCHARIST?

If a group of non ordained believers meet together and Break Bread in Memory of the Lord Jesus – is that a true Eucharist?

“Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them” (Matthew 18:18-20).

On the basis if what Jesus said, such a group meeting would indeed attract the PRESENCE of Jesus.

And if the meeting Broke Bread, then surely it would be a Eucharistic encounter?

Personally, I have never attended such a celebration.

But I have taken Communion in the churches of other denominations than the RCC one, and on those occasions I believed that I was in the House of God and was indeed communing with God and my brothers and sisters who were present.

ABSOLUTE CHAOS v TOTAL CONTROL

I can of course see the case for in the Cristian Community for clarity and order and basic beliefs and practices.

Otherwise you could easily have ecclesiastical chaos.

But I also think that in the Church there can be too much structure, too many petty rules and indeed one group lording it over another.

To answer the question I was asked that prompted this blog

I believe that if a group of sincere believers left the RCC and chose one of their group to be their pastor, and prayed over that person for that intention then that person would be acceptable in God’s sight as their chosen shepherd.

OR

Such a group could approach an independent Catholic bishop?

INDEPENDENT CATHOLIC BISHOPS

And there are out there – various groups of Catholics, not connected with Rome, who claim to have valid episcopal and priestly Holy Orders.

These interesting books are about this issue

Many of these bishops claim to have valid (if not Roman canonical) Holy Orders and their lineages are very difficult to dispute.

Category:Bishops of Independent Catholic denominations (Wikipedia)

142 replies on “CAN ANY CATHOLIC / CHRISTIAN CELEBRATE A EUCHARIST?”

There is a reason that at the reformation Protestant churches sought to return to the early church and so ended up bearing a resemblance to each other in ministry and sacraments, and even nowadays are mainly in communion with each other, except for the most ‘strict and particular’ groups…

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11.16

They resemble those of the early church in terms of simplicity. None of the high baroque of RC services.

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More people now choose sacramental formats that reflect their personal values and beliefs or have chosen to distance themselves from traditional rituals in response to negative experiences with RC members. They rightly refuse to be controlled or dictated to by the elitist Roman Catholic Church hierarchy or its foot soldiers on the ground.

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12:56 more funeral arrangements now bypass the church mass, repose at home or at undertakers and taken direct to cemetery for burial or to crematorium for a celebration of life service with personally selected music and or photo slide presentation on screen.

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Reply to Anonymous at 12:56
Just before COVID my uncle died. He had a very distinguished career during WW2. He then got involved in a very creative and meaningful way in civic life and set up a number of enterprises which have and continue to benefit the less fortunate in society.
He attended mass weekly for years until dementia took hold. A wealthy man he personally financed poor sick pilgrims to go to Lourdes.
After he died his daughters approached the recently arrived parish priest to organise his funeral. They asked for a certain song to be played in the church, a favourite of his. ‘Always look on the bright side of life’
The priest dismissed it out of hand.
So, realising they were getting nowhere with the priest my cousins decided no Funeral Mass just a service at the crematorium conducted by a celebrant.
Fulsome tribute was payed to my uncle during the eulogy. Had the priest been in attendance he would have held his head in shame when the many good deeds and charitable works of my kindly uncle were recounted. Not to mention his courage during the last war.
At the conclusion we all joined together, almost 500 of us according to the crematorium lady, and sang his favourite song.
NOT ONE MEMBER OF OUR WHOLE FAMILY HAS DARKENED THE DOOR OF A CATHOLIC CHURCH SINCE !
And rightfully so.
Well done holy and reverend father. Even on your best day you couldn’t even laced the boots of this fine and decent man.

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Maura: your comment mirrors what I have found from talking to many relatives, and certainly my own. They’ve all recognised the RCC charade. Other than rites of passage occasions with familial “obligations,” I’ve never gone near anything connected to the RCC in 50+ years.
That pompous git of an RC priest I challenged after his obnoxious mass diatribe in 1969 marks the beginning of my own departure from the RCC closed mind mentality.
MMM

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Ironically this is also what the ‘trad’ Catholics also do. It is the most Protestant approach to the liturgy you could imagine.

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Thank you dear Bishop Pat – Your answer to my question is very
helpful.It becomes increasingly difficult for many of us
to continue with any integrity within a broken ,
corrupted institutional church .We are seeking another way .
Much of the time I look at the church with disgust , and
I think the House of God has become the House of Satan .
We want to fulfill our ” Catholic ” calling to God , but no longer
believe it can be within the ” Roman Catholic ” Church .
Even when we seek clarification from the Church on its position ,
teachings , canons , or write to Nuncios , Bishops , Vatican
Congregations , with this aim often they do not even have the
common courtesy of even answering us .

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1:56 they do not answer correspondence because they are fully aware that their position is untenable. It’s akin to waiting for a safe place to jump from a burning car on the move.

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I’m surprised that it’s going so cheap ! It’s a big property. Looking at the pictures, I’m sure it is as well set up and equipped as any private nursing home, and is an indication of how well looked after retired priests can expect. As I approach old age as a layman, I do wonder what provision will be made for me as I need extra care, meaning probably very little except that which I can afford myself. Priests are fortunate, and usually have a pretty comfortable life without the cares of family, children, mortgages etc., and are by and a large given total care. And when they retire that total care continues. I’ve never come across a poor priest. They always seem to have a nice car, go on nice holidays, have their presbyteries done up and well furnished. They eat and drink well. Only if they are tramps do they live in squalor, and that is a personal choice. So, I don’t feel too sorry for them enjoying a comfortable retirement after a largely indolent and self-indulgent life. You can see that I am not a fan of clerics !

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Yes, the price seems low, given the land round it too. It is probably lower than might be expected because of the location, the need to apply for planning permission to turn it back into a private dwelling and it may not be up to modern standards for residential homes eg there are still shared bathrooms.
There is also a separate presbytery included, which is also used as retirement accommodation.
Where are the current residents of the big house and the presbytery going?

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10.37: You’re not a fan of clerics, I’m not a fan of begrudgers or people who spread misinformation. Most priests put some money aside for retirement, rightly so. Some are fortunate to inherit family homes where they can luve out their days. If a priest is in a nursing home, his pension goes entirely towards his care. Often families will contribute. Have you no family or relatives to look after you? If you’ve worked all your life surely you’ve made some savings…Your stereotypical image of clerics pertains to a few…

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Have you read the newspapers recently about the UK economy?
Are you familiar with the particular difficulties faced by the care sector?
Are you familiar with UK planning law?
You could easily have answered your question by spending approximately five minutes online.

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Father’s feeling a little tetchy (when is he not) at 11:57. Can’t have pulled on Grindr last night.

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As it was given as a gift by Cyril Hartley KSG ( Knight of the Order of St Gregory the Great, a Papal honorary title) to Birmingham Roman Catholic archdioceses, they are quid’s in. I wish I could afford it, it is so beautiful.
There is a Mauselem in the grounds to one family who lived there and apparently has a long Roman Catholic association with families who lived there.

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The mention of Vatican 2 here is irrelevant and a red herring.
Would you like to show me in the documents of Vatican 2 where it says to wind down assets? You’ve never read them, have you.

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12 17: As usual, you are the brainless idiot whose brain, if any, seems stuck in your a**e. Intelligent comnentary or cogency of thought are not within your ability.

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@12:06pm (MC). It’s a matter of historical record that assets were built up before the Council and are being sold at a furious pace since it.

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12:44 Yet you couldn’t make your point without using the word a**e. 😂
This is what your parish priest is like when he’s not identifiable, folks.

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The reason for the price is found in these words: ‘Planning permission will be required’
That means although it’s being sold as a house the purchaser would have legal loopholes to leap through, especially as it’s listed.
The other thing is that although it’s very pleasant as a home, it’s nowhere near the level of luxury a purchaser of that sort of house would expect and they would certainly be looking at spending millions more on getting it up to scratch and removing the signs of institutional use

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It could be a 3-star hotel or B&B, or used to house the doctors and engineers arriving daily by dinghy.

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12:54 Thank you for confirming my frequently made point that many comments here are troll comments, probably from clerics who have appeared here, intended to derail an adult conversation and mess up the blog.
You’ve also incidentally proved that you deserve whatever happened to you as a result of Pat Dyno Rodding you out of the sewer.

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7:39 Property ownership for organizations, particularly charities, is more complex than simply being patrimony. Yes they are assets but they are assets whose value can only be realized by either running a profitable business from them or selling them (nursing homes aren’t wildly profitable any more).
Otherwise honestly, these buildings are continual drains on the organization.
Old buildings like that demand continual expensive maintenance. I shudder to think what the insurance and security costs alone would be while it is being sold. They may have a live in caretaker but often empty property insurance requires it to be heated, which would be forbidding in itself.
It’s a very different building but don’t forget the archdiocese of Glasgow were forced to literally give away Cardross Seminary, a listed part of its patrimony, because they had no use for it and nobody wanted it.
TL:DR buildings are millstones not assets.

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7.39
The money from sales of property that is no longer needed for the Misson of the Church goes two ways.
If it is a Parish that is sell the unused church or any property then all the funds go to the parish they are amalgamated to and they spend it as they like.
Diocesan property goes to the Diocese of who is selling it and then it is up to the trustees to decided what to do with the income.
As it says on the sales details for Aston hall it belongs to the Archdioceses of Birmingham so it will be up to Archbishop Longley and the trustees what to do with the income.
Most Dioceses do not have property as propert in parishes do not belong to them but the dioceses invest in shares

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Wasn’t it at Aston Hall that Bede Walsh was given a job as a cook following his first prosecution for looking at pornographic photos of kids on a train ? He cooked for the old boys ? Then more came out about him and his time abusing youngsters, and then his trial and subsequent conviction and imprisonment for something like over 20 years. He must be half way through that sentence by now, but he won’t be out soon because he is refusing to do all the courses and rehabilitation that is required for parole. Still protesting his innocence and having been hard done by. So, he will stay a guest of HMP for some years to come. Then when he finally comes out he will be well in to his 70s. What will happen to him ? Does Brum have another Aston Hall where they will put him ? Remember, these boys looks after their own, and once a member of the club always a member of the club. Even when laicised.

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Pat I hope there is reconciliation and forgiveness from the Lord without having to attend a church. My own conscience isn’t exactly clear, but I continue to talk to God in my terms as I don’t agree with the Catholic Church. I am, what you may call, an independent catholic. I got my twin sister pregnant when we were 15 and mummy knew what we were up to and was disgusted and horrified. Back then, my sister and I never seen the error of our actions. We both do now, we are very happily married to other people and that period in our life we have never revisited. We aborted the baby. I continue to ask my God for forgiveness daily – although I do not attend mass or receive the Eucharist. Do you think my own self remorse, despite not attending mass or confession, is enough, or do you think I should repent to a priest and start attending mass again?
Thanks in advance

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If you sincerely go down on your knees and ask God’s forgiveness you will be forgiven. If you want to celebrate the Sacrament of Reconciliation with me you can.

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Bishop Pat can you tell me where in the Bible it says to go down on your bended knees as I struggle to find it but your knowledge is superior to mine. (even in the upper room they were not on bended knees)
I hope there is not many infirm people reading your blog or as your friend would say they will be roasted in hell but they are infirm and some have even been born that way.
Over the past years the constant stand up, sit down now knees has not being forsed in the RCC and Thank god for that for the people who are unfortunate cannot stand some clergy say if you are able please stand but I do not know when I last heard a priest same Kneel.
Some parishes do not even have kneelers as the building have to be used multi functional in a modern society.
I guess you love people on their knees Thank God the Sacrement of reconciliation is not what you would call Confession.
Our God is a God of LOVE slow to anger and Rich in Mercy.
ps people recieving the last rites are not able to go down on their bended knees for a priest but they see the Love in Our Lord’s face.

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It sounds as if you’ve been able to continue life and being happy married is ,in itself,a great thing. Your actions as a teenager on the face of it, sound terrible and unforgivable. However you are not alone. I’ve dealt with similar situations.
It’s not for me or anyone to judge.
I fully understand your non participation in ritual man made church procedures and ceremonies. It’s not for everyone, regardless of the terrible failures of the Roman church. If you’re happy with your relationship with God then I’m pretty sure you’ll be fine. While what you say may come as a shock to some people ,you’re certainly far from unique. Just continue living and helping people when you can.

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Clearly a fictional, wind up comment. If a person had any sense that they should repent of incest they would also have the sense not to talk about it in public, or to ask without specifics

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Jeez! Incest is more common than people believe; it’s just that it is so taboo the impression is given that it happens very rarely.
When you think about it, incest must have been the norm in the early stages of human evolution.
And, oh dear, What of Adam and Eve? How did Cain procreate? With his mum? A loada shite!

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Anon I: It is sufficient that now, in your maturity, you recognise having, at that immature stage of your development, innapropriately succumbed to that evolutionary generated most powerful human procreation instinct.
You have no need to go to any priest, or mass. You acknowledge and regret your past inappropriate actions. That is sufficient.
Your comment/questions indicate maturity and development. Rest easy in knowledge of that progression.
MMM

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8.07 (with trepidation at my clumsy wording) no matter how you bungled you could call them Ray or Rae and thank them for praying because they are praying for me.

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The restriction of celebrating the eucharist to priests is just another example of how the Church extended its clerical control over areas that meant that people were reliant on clergy. I am sure in the early primitive Church that the eucharist and other activities were shared and celebrated by a variety of people. Until one group called themselves priests and started to put themselves on a pedestal. So, I would be fully in favour of lay celebration of the eucharist, and other sacraments, as well as leadership and authority in the Church. The day is coming when that is going to be the reality. Then where will the clergy be ? Still sniffing around the cruising areas, still sneaking off for quiet liaisons, still trying to fool us and lie to us, still trying to cover up for each other, still snaffling church funds, still fooling themselves and trying to fool us….?

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9.17: Sir, if you have any awareness about people’s behaviour, you’ll realise that all people are flawed in some way. Some of the “most trusted” laity in parishes where I’ve worked were scoundrels. Some lay ministers were in relationships and causing scandal. Our expectations of others who may appear “suutable” can be shattered. I unearthed two financial scandals in one parish, all done by “trusted laity”…Sadly, there’s no format for a perfect community of Christ. Look at rhe scandals of the big buck televangelists in the USA…..Horrendous financial and other abuses have been unearthed in many such groups.

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Reply to;Anonymoussays:
Nov 25, 2022 at 9:17 am
Let me tell you something, nothing will change when and, if the Roman Catholic laity take over, there will still be a hierarchy, there will still be those who benefit the most from running the Roman Catholic business, there will still be an exchange of money for favors and, prayers, even more so, and without any doubt there will be raging nepotism.
Human beings once in control, on the whole behave in the same domineering way, ordained or not.

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Exactly. Letting the sheep take over wouldn’t be a change. Their church’s prolific crime hasn’t put them off attending so they’ve obviously got even less moral sense than the bishops. 🙄

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The Roman Catholic Church has evolved over time into a dangerous, wealthy & powerful cult with the most sinister of international business & professional connections worldwide – the emphasis is not on God but on protecting the truth about all its corrupt & sinister practices and associations. Any victims, survivors or associates perceived as a threat inevitably find themselves pursued via scurrilous & overzealous intrusion, harrassment, their personal & family details circulated by clergy and members to their criminal elements, the types who will do & say whatever suits the church agenda in return for prior “rehabilitation” services facilitated by clerical written & verbal recommendations etc. After all who better qualified than the Roman Catholic Church given its international and highly successful track record in moving deviant clerics around the world to avoid justice & in trafficking children via falsified travel documents to unvetted homes abroad in return for payment for these types to “shelter away from justice”. As can be read on this blog and elsewhere, some clergy have disposable income to purchase drugs and vice workers for their nocturnal activities inside church premises and many clergy are on very good terms with ruthless members of the criminal fraternity ranging from petty criminals to more organised criminals.

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As we repeatedly see here, RCs will excuse any cleric of any crime. This is a classic example of cult behaviour where you don’t question the leadership but see the world outside as persecuting you.

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You mean the clergy are only having a go at crime? I hate to think what they could do if they were organized.

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10:01 Currently the website Complicit Clergy gives a number of 6,754 clergy credibly accused of abusing 20,100 victims in the US alone.
What do you consider REAL crime?
Crime not committed by clergy and covered up by bishops?

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Used to have a beautiful catholic community in our village, numbering about 40. Then, due to a lack of clergy, the Mass centre which used a pretty Anglican church was closed.
Suddenly a Catholic presence in the village was extinguished. People went to Mass in different places at different times. Some didn’t bother at all. What do you think of the French worker priest movement Pat?
It’s a shame our community didn’t have Pat to ordain a couple of men in the congregation as priests. It would have kept our community alive and pissed off the hierarchy.

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10.20: Are you serious? Pat ordaining men at a whim? Mother of God, come to our help.. That’s a recipe for ERROR, DIVISION, CONFUSION….

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Discerning Christ’s Body isn’t about eucharist, it’s about honouring the Holy Spirit in our peers. JP II instituted eucharist as a means into our affections for his (in his case gender theology based) institution, and we should be wary of other groups doing similarly. Because you don’t, and if someone informally at their home doesn’t, fine. Just because some of us think the ceremony at different venues is interchangeable for us individually, doesn’t mean they have the same objective value or effect in Jesus’ eyes (so we shouldn’t mislead others): I think He has changed His main line of sight to us recently away from ceremonies or organisations even small ones. Interestingly a sick person receiving a communion element alone is more likely to be communing with God and not with religious bosses.

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10:34 the dogs on the streets know that Maynooth members were spouting misleading narratives in the national press in Ireland.

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The central question is Bishop Pat if a community rejects the Institution and declares independence and all the lay people pray an Ordination Ritual is the person prayed on a valid Bishop ,Priest , or Deacon ?

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“What do you mean by valid?
In the eyes of God or Rome?”
In the eyes of God dear Bishop Pat .
if a community rejects the Institution and declares independence and all the lay people pray an Ordination Ritual is the person prayed on a valid Bishop ,Priest , or Deacon ? .Do you think it is valid in the eyes of God?
This is a sincere question we are talking about as a way faward where I am .We are sick of how the institutional church behaves .

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I don’t that God deals in in terms like valid, lawful, canonical.

Of a community of sincere believers elected and anointed members to minister to them, whatever terms they used, then that would be acceptable in God’s eyes, in my opinion.

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By Post Author

In the decades after Vatican 1 when other Christians sought orders in lines which would be recognized by Rome (usually derived from Old Catholic sources) the reason was that they envisaged a time when the churches would be united corporately. They didn’t doubt their own orders but this was so they could present Rome with these orders and stop it behaving like the spoiled child it is. Typically, RCs have always interpreted that as people doubting the ‘validity’ of their own orders, since they lack the wisdom to see that this was to temper their own petulant behaviour.
Of course the ultimate irony here is that when you apply the test used on Church of England orders in Apostolicae Curae to the current Roman ordination rite, their own orders are also invalid! And all the arguments used by people like Fr Hunwicke to try to prove otherwise just fail completely.
So guys, if you want valid orders, look to Utrecht or Larne, not Rome! 😂

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11:42 There is an interesting parallel to this in another modern religion so the only example doesn’t have to be Christian churches. After Gerald Gardner and friends created or developed the modern pagan religion of Wicca it became unexpectedly popular in the occult interest of the sixties and seventies and then again in the nineties. The only way you can become a Gardnerian Wiccan is to be initiated by someone else, so various people also started their own initiatory lines, also claiming ancient origins and mystical grandmothers. The existing structures had no prospect of ever initiating everyone who wanted to be.
But then in the nineties a movement towards self initiation or dedication started, and many of them didn’t care that Gardner would have disapproved – they were Wiccans/witches and the doing of the religion was what mattered. One major text of the solitary movement was Scott Cunningham’s ‘ Wicca for the Solitary Practitioner’.
This is an exact parallel to the scenario you mention, so it’s not just Christians who have that difficulty.

Reading round online about survivors of church abuse I’m beginning to see a few people who are ending up being solitary practitioners or else not attending one church consistently, although of course Christianity would be more resistant to the creation of a whole new tradition where you don’t belong to a local church and are freelance, I feel.

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A significant number in this working class age group are still awaiting redress from the Roman Catholic Church for historical wrong doing.

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Yes. But nearly all bishops regret some of their ordinations.

I’m sure the bishop who ordained Brendan Smyth regretted it.

I have never ordained a bishop.

I have ordained one woman and have no regrets about that.

Some of the men I ordained let me down.

Others have not.

That’s life.

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Pat, I mean this charitably but you’re far too trusting and too quick to give people the benefit of the doubt. That’s great when it comes to hearing confessions or giving people money at the door, because it’s better to give to a few fakes. But when it comes to ordaining people you risk the scandal that you rightly criticize other bishops for because they ordain unsuitable candidates.
I also think you’re too quick to publish comments which are obviously troll comments and can have no effect but to make you and the blog look ridiculous. I often suspect you like to upset people and it wouldn’t be unusual for someone to do it to themselves too in an act of self sabotage.
I don’t expect you to publish this comment, but if you do I’ll assume you’re doing it to self flagellate. x

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😀

In recent years we have here in The Oratory moved to the model of someone seeking ordination to petition the whole congregation here.

So it’s now a community decision.

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By Post Author

Why should a romanist bishop regret ordaining ANY candidate? After all, they believe that vocations are God’s doing and that the Church’s ordaining a man is confirmation of this.

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Apart from the inevitable trolls, it’s refreshing to see lots of intelligent comments here tòday.
MMM

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My understanding of the Eucharist is thanksgiving to Jesus in dying out of love for us so that when Jesus arose again we could enjoy the eternal Love of God for ever and ever. We hope to achieve this love by allowing the spirit of God’s love flow through us in our interactions with each other. Sadly something terrible has happened with the RCC as the world is full of strife and they assume themselves to be the masters when they decide who can celebrate the thanksgiving of Jesus.
Roger Schux who founded taize and a declared protestant was the first person to receive holy communion from cardinal Benedict Ratzinger at Pope John Paul’s funeral. Canon law forbids catholic communion to protestants.
Brother Roger said that he had found his own Christian identity by reconciling within himself the faith of his origins with the mystery of the Catholic faith without breaking fellowship with anyone.
There was no special dispensation given to him

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Let us break bread together on our knees.
Let us break bread together on our knees.
Refrain:
When I fall on my knees with my face to the rising sun,
O Lord have mercy on me.
Let us drink wine together on our knees.
Let us drink wine together on our knees. [Refrain]
Let us praise God together on our knees.
Let us praise God together on our knees. [Refrain]

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The Glastonbury monks provide the sacraments as co-chaplains at France’s English Latin Mass School. The Clifton diocesan-founded public association enjoys charitable status on donations made in the UK. How is that possible if they operate in France?

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I think Bishop Buckley should write a follow up letter to Bishop Lang. It is deeply worrying.

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Why is it stalking to ask for clarification as to the Dames canonical status? We have a right to know.

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Me and my gay brother use to have sex until I met my wife, we are also both happily married, nobody needs to know anything you don’t want them to.

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The narrative is very much with the accent on the Eucharist as Memorial whereas for Catholics the host and wine are transubstantiated at the moment of epiclesis.
Clergy insist this is something only they have the power to do and it is not available to lay people.
How did the early church celebrate the Eucharist?
We are led to believe that the Mass is 2000 years old when surely it’s the Last Supper that os 2000 years old and the Mass we celebrate today a Council of Trent invention?

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I have change my mind on wishing I could afford A.H.
How many more sexual abusers were housed there?
Does anyone know which part of Ireland Quigley hailed from?

Guess who was a guest at Aston Hall?
Roman Catholic sexual abuser priest Joseph Quigley, aged 56, of Aston Hall, Church Lane, Stone, was convicted of a number of sexually abusive offences in December following a trial.
Sexual abuser Quigley, was then jailed for 11-and-a-half years on January 29.2021
The sexual offences took place while he was the Roman Catholic parish priest at the church from 2002 until he was forced to resign in disgrace.

Quigley was rubbing the boy’s inner thigh after making him wear gym kit;

Making him take showers with the door open;

Inflicting ‘sado-masochistic’ punishments on him such as locking him in the Roman Catholic church’s crypt, a cold and dark room containing tombs;

Beating the boy with a hurling stick and;

Making the boy do sit-ups and press-ups as punishments, to stand in the corner and suck paracetamols, which have a bitter taste.

1)Catholic Church ‘apologises for the suffering’ caused by ‘sexual sadist’ priest
To the outside, ‘Father Joe’ was seen as a saviour, a man carrying out God’s work. Behind closed doors, he was a sinner possessing sewer urges
ByHayley Parker
05:00, 8 FEB 2021

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Fr Derek Ryan will officiate Sundays GAA final after mass. Rumours here in Dundalk are that he is leaving missionary in the new year. I hope they are just that, rumours.

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Didn’t see or hear of any of the apostles breaking the bread during the last supper.
There’s a reason for that.

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How do you know the Apostles didn’t also break bread and pass it along to the next fellow? You’ve been watching too many movies in which Jesus alone breaks bread.

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They did, but they did so under the direction, instruction and authority of Christ himself.

The notion of lay people being able to administer the body and blood of Christ is yet another example of the counterfeit catholicism VII has to offer.

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8.44
What’s your point? Is it that Jesus instucted priesthood? Because he did not. That’s historical fact.

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Robert Nugent is setting up another rally, this time in Belfast. MAM (men against Masturbation) are finding their feet and growing rapidly. Allegedly – Fr Delia Neeson wants to Speer head their break off group, WAM (women against Masturbation)

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6.22: Aidan, you need prayers for that perverted mind you have. You must have a health warning when you’re with men (or children). You perve. God bless Robert Nugent.

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Me and my aunt had sex at my brothers wedding, incest is more common than you think. I’m glad readers have been sharing their experiences as it has helped me open up about mine.

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7.11: Personally I think the comnents re: incest have been posted simply to cause a fuss in Pats blog. The act of incest is a serious crime and any person who has committed such an act should be ashamed to publicise it on this blog. These people require professional help.

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7.11
So is murder and rape, but we don’t pretend they dont exist.And we don’t refuse to talk about them.
Not talking about these things facilitates their continuation. What’s an example? Oh, yes! Covering up the rape and sodomisation of innocent children by RC priests.

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Buckley you are the anti Christ and will go to hell, us clergy are great men, of course we make mistakes and break the law, who doesn’t, that’s what forgiveness is all about! Croak it!

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6.28: You’re not a cleric, you fool!! Of course we all make mistakes but some “mistakes” are criminal and deserve the full rigour of the law of the land. Go fetch your teddy bear and hug it during the Late Late Toy Show. That’s probably beyond your intelligence!!

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You are the anti christ! If you lot would behave then ‘Buckley’ wouldn’t have a blog – but you all can not, spiteful you are, Pat bin this monsters comment

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Why does Fr Mulhall not live in our Parochial house? Why isn’t the house offered to homeless or Ukrainians?

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7.07: As an private independent minister NO ONE is ANSWERABLE TO Pat. What pkanet do you live on? Pat, have you been assigned Ukranians yet? There’s a desperation now as many people who initially offered places have decided against doing so …Also today it was announced that we have the highest ever homeless figures – over 11,000 with over 3,000 being children. Minister O Donoghue was quite uncomfortable when asked “how come”? The level of requests for assistance in our parish through St. V.de Paul is quite overwhelming. Our government found money to allow Minister Eamon Ryan with an entourage of 55 to attend the COP conference last week. Utterly disgusting.

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And just like that, mass us cancelled tomorrow evening again because the priest has caught Covid again; is it so hard to get this covered?

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Pat are you doing a piece on Ryan McAleer soon? He was back in Armagh, I would imagine it was a trip. Is he still a Priest?

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A study just revealed that the majority of Catholics do not believe Mary, the mother of God, was actually a virgin.
The majority believe her and Joseph were actually husband and wife.

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Belief in the presumed virginity of Mary is not a requirement for salvation. Jesus certainly did not make it so.

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Blasphemy in the highest form – you will go to hell – and where and who conducted this ‘study’? Any catholic who does not believe Our Lady was a catholic is in effect a coke hearted Protestant

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Jesus ordained no one. There were no priests in the early church, and, yet, there was still eucharist.
If priesthood was not necessary then for eucharist, it is, logically, not necessary now.
If you wish to point to Pentecost and to the empowerment of people by the Holy Spirit as evidence for ordination, you will struggle to do so. For one thing, women, too, must have been present on the occasion and have been equally empowered.
Priesthood is entirely a human and mysogynistic contrivance, and it has created a church of unequals, a hierarchy along with cultic qualities. There is no better medium than this for abuse of all kinds, including the sexual expolitation of children.
Priesthood historically is a curse, and it will continue to be a curse.
Why do so-called ‘men of God’ require the constraints of media and others to fall into line morally? Shouldn’t the power of conscience alone be sufficient? The answer is simple and obvious: priesthood is not of God. It is a manifestation of eltist, human pride, and it has brought to the church little beyond moral destruction, recrimination, and division.
Those who defend priesthood are being disobedient to Christ’s expressed wish: ‘Do this (ALL of you) in memory of me.’ He wasn’t referring to the Apostles alone, but to each and every one of his followers, since he would send them out to preach salvation throughout the world.

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And what is this ‘ do this in memory of me’ but to allow the love of God to flow through us when we interact with each other. We become a world of peace and genuinly caring for each other. This to me is the eucharist. Pray is our conversation with God to help us become aware of the Lords presence.

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Do they need a bishop or ordination for a Eucharist…
Let me rephrase the question that is asked above in as clear a phrase as I can… what is really being asked is does the Holy Spirit need a human in order to act?
Since the Holy Spirit reredates humanity than the answer is “no”.

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Hi come ere hi Jesus was a prophet and a rabbi before the churches turned him into a franchise Our Jesus is better than your Jesus We don’t own him. Your salvation does not depend on what I believe about Mary. Mary is Mary God is God Keep it simples padres and madres Peace

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Wee Timmy Bartlett hasn’t a hope. He made such a cock-up of the Pope’s visit he’s consigned to the coal front for the rest of his natural.
Just as well too, he’s an obnoxious little man. I think they’ll go south to replace Traynor.

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Sad silly people continue to howl at the moon on this blog. The priesthood is secure and sound. There are over 440,000 worldwide doing the Lord’s work. So howl on you bigots, for all the good it’ll do ya! Christ’s regnat!
And good fatgers remember “Blessed are you when people abuse you and speak all kinds of calumny against you……..”

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Yes! Goddamn those children who accused our good ‘fatgers’ of rape! They should have offered it up for poor ‘fatger’s’ soul.

The presence of priesthood in the Church is driving away increasing numbers of Catholics.

Priesthood secure? Wise up! These men are gradually making themselves redundant.😅

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ROBUSTUS: my current masters studies attempts to examine the mentality of those commonly referred to as Cathbots. Your comment suggests you may be an excellent study example.
Would you mind if I quote your comment as an example with respect to limited perspective, understanding and tolerance?

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Poor deluded 10.39. The church is thriving all over the world. It’s only in the Liberal West where Christian values are being supplanted by abortion on demand, put down the sick and handicapped, and bed hopping with disease ridden men who want to be women and women who don’t know what they want to be is rampant that young men have been poisoned against vocation. What would Joe Duffy and his like do without raking over the sins of the church on a regular basis. They keep the cauldron of hate boiling, presenting old news in ever more sensationalist terms. Thank the Lord people see this campaign for what it really is an attempt to silence the voice of prophetic witness. Faith cannot be so easily extinguished. The bits tried with all their might and failed. A handful of foul mouthed bigots have no hope. Save your venom for this blog, it’s therapeutic.

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