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Vatican and China extend their deal on bishop appointments

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/vatican-ap-china-rome-catholic-church-b2208415.html

Vatican and China on Saturday extended their oft-criticized agreement on the appointment of bishops in the Asian country, where the government has waged crackdowns over the years on religious believers.

The Holy See announced the latest, two-year renewal of the 2018 arrangement in a brief statement.

It said the Vatican was committed to “constructive dialogue” with China on implementing the accord and in improving bilateral relations “with a view to fostering the mission of the Catholic Church and the good of the Chinese people.″

The two sides haven’t had diplomatic relations since 1951, in the wake of the the Chinese Communists’ rise to power.

In the past, conservative Catholics slammed the deal in view of China’s persecution of people practicing their religions. The Vatican insists better relations allow for discussions about any human rights abuses.

PAT SAYS

The RCC is supposed to regard the Holy Orders of its bishops, priests and deacons as central to its mission and Sacramental integrity.

And yet it is allowing the Chinese atheistic,communist and torturing and murdering government a veto over its appointment of bishops !!!

In doing so it has ignored the wishes of the faithful and persecuted Catholics in China.

It has also sold Hong Kong’s elderly and highly regarded Cardinal Zen down the river.

ZEN

Cardinal Zen has been opposing China’s abuse of human rights for decades and was totally opposed to the Vatican / China deal.

What’s the old saying about unscrupulous people – “They would sell their mother”.

In return for the deal large sums of Chinese money has poured into the Vatican.

Mind you, people in Argentina say that Francis was in the hands of the Argentine Junta when he was Jesuit superior and bishop there.

….And that he played a role in the disappearance and deaths of a number of Jesuits who were resisting the cruel regime.

It strikes, in so many ways, that China. Russia and The Vatican are all birds of a feather.

106 replies on “Vatican and China extend their deal on bishop appointments”

Birds of a feather….very apt for the unscrupulous company you keep, Pattie. I think you are misinformed about Chinese politics and machinations. Anything to down Pope Francis. It seems you like no one of a Catholic disposition. No one. Your problem entirely since apostatising. When you look in the mirror of your conscience it displays everyone as being wring except your erring self. Sad.

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Your daily reminder that the Catholic™️ church is a cult so anything it does, including compromising with inhumane regimes, is just fine to its followers and everyone outside is persecuting them.
In fact this comment may be the best example of cult thinking I’ve seen on this blog.

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The Vatican & China
A match made in heaven
There are none so blind as those blinkered by their own self gratification

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One Chinese defector, Guo Wengui says that in return for this still secret deal the Vatican gets $1.6 billion. If the Vatican cared so much about the Mass of Paul VI or some other V2 derivation like new lay movements, they would certainly care about the now 90 year old man and pro democracy campaign who offered the first New Mass publicly using a Taiwanese missal in the early 80s. The New Mass has since then largely replaced the traditional Mass in China since then in Patriotic Catholic Assoc. churches (the Underground was long New Mass), as hitherto Mass was only legally permitted in the form it stood in 1949, when the PRC was formed. The Vatican is first and last concerned with cash flow. The strongly rumoured deal with the SSPX some years ago might have put trads into an avoidable reservation, but it might too have connected the Vatican with the SSPX’s highly efficient financing.
Anyhow, beside this, the most wicked thing as +Pat notes is the continued persecution, abuse in spite of the deal. Perhaps a connection with the Vatican toleration of abuse when it suits it, in other well known situations (some mentioned in +Pat’s last post), which now have proven quite expensive for it, can be seen. Moral callousness.

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Anon at 10.20am

No, Symmachus is well informed re RCC far more than I do.

The point he makes re SSPX is efficiently financing. That’s quite interesting from an outsider point of view like myself or others.

Secondly, rcc deal with China doesn’t make rcc look good on the outside. It also suggests that its a man made church with man ideas and monies, nothing to do with their religion.

3rd is gindr is owned by the Chinese as far as I recall.

4th, China is quite ruthless with their Catholics especially cardinal Zen. It also implies that rcc isn’t really concerned with Catholics if they ended up in trouble. Its all about me, the church, genuinely Catholic people LAST.

We shouldnt be contributing our monies to rcc on weekly Sunday cash collection for that very reason. They have no concern for us whatsoever.

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Why would anyone be surprised at any of this?
The only reason I’m not expecting Putin and the pope to be best friends is the ROC of course has first dibs.

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And there you have it.
Confirmation that birds of a feather flock together
Atheists, Communists, Torturers, Murderers etc., etc.

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10:04 their technology experts are such a valuable blessing to them – full of good works on their behalf for the greater good of their outfits.

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It’s plain that the Ukrainians are using dirty smear tactics against the Russian Orthodox Church. Zelensky and his thugs are dangerous.
https://news.yahoo.com/moscow-patriarchate-priest-suspected-pedophilia-165300125.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJX19s5I9hpPUBbtPzV56-she-Texx550lRL0FsMH7jhw464cu02zWOUGjZOFyLmFYCwB846wHzcMebSed0kow52yq2RbAGpaP02OshNn8TGPe8t97Ex9kWMIRoA23oMHjA5ObK3EQXIHe32IUj8zIX2gKtsBDbGdK8AbgkxGzAy

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Do you think the Russian Orthodox Church deserves anything better, given it support and blessing of an illegal war and all the suffering that is being inflicted ? For what ? So that they can retain their privileges. The Patriarch Kirill should be prosecuted for encouraging this illegal war and the war crimes that are being committed. He should never be allowed to leave Russia and if he does he should be arrested and brought before a court. Russian Orthodox Churches in the UK and Ireland should declare that they are breaking with the Moscow Patriarchate. If they don’t, then they should be severely sanctioned, even closed down. That’s the price of supporting an illegal war and war crimes. Simple.

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12:05 probably thinks every abusing priest has been falsely accused by the enemies of the church.
My only surprise is you didn’t try to bring Communism in.
Right wing dog whistle troll demerit point.

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God backs Pope Francis.
The Pope makes morality. Whatever the pope declares as good, Heaven rubber-stamps. Let this be an end to the matter.

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Agreed, 2.02.

Jesus was very clear when he spoke about binding and loosing on Earth.

The Church sets the moral standard, and Heaven falls into line.

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Dead on @ 2:02 & 9:22. Whatever the RCC says is truth, justice, moral and proper, Him upstairs, aka the Big Fella, JC & the HG, all agree and fall into line.

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The Vatican & China both use technology to identify, stalk, harrass & execute illegal actions against perceived whistleblowers in their stringent efforts to conceal ongoing human rights abuses.

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Church hierarchy issue censorship commands from behind closed doors within their privileged compounds and their foot soldiers on the ground execute on their behalf.

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Collaborations between China and The Vatican are of serious concern to the international human rights community and to anyone committed to the principles of truth and justice.

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What’s the truth about the worldwide health epidemic that originated in Wuhan, China killing thousands of people across the world and ongoing?
Who are the names behind the pharmaceutical companies profiting from the Covid vaccines?
Who are the Vatican connected names involved in human slavery & trafficking, child labour, paedophilia, money laundering, profiteering from drugs and vice and other illegal activities?
Be advised that an Incident Response Team from GLOBAL INTERPOL can be briefed, equipped and deployed anywhere in the world within 12 to 24 hours.
They manage 19 police databases with information on crimes and criminals accessible in real-time to countries.
http://www.interpol.int

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Pat, leave the Vatican alone. They know what they are doing, they are the experts and every decision they make is thoroughly thought threw and made in the best interest of all Catholics and the church.

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Why do western countries and societies feel that their beliefs and laws are superior to everyone else’s and try and impose them on other countries?
Qatar and their lgbtqia rights, it’s nothing to do with you Europeans, Brits and Americans so mind your own business and look after the people you discriminate yourselves, black people, gingers and morbidly obese etc

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10:14 Nothing wrong with doing what my parents brought me up to do – “say nothing and keep saying it”. Travel can be over rated and gives some types great notions about themselves altogether.

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Donald Trump would not put up with this nonsense. He has already warned Pope Francis to stay out of science

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Bishop Buckley me don’t like being referred to yesterday blog as my tribe I think is racist of comment to say so. It just go to show us how bad people are to insult us like this.
I like you piece today and I agree with all you say, have nice day

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Tuned love, I think you have a really lack of understanding of the RCC, stay away from staunch Protestant lisburn and read the bible

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Where is MIA Fr Mulhall? Mass is being covered all week – again! Why will Noel Treanor not give us a decent priest in this prestigious parish?

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1013 – it’s in NI. They don’t have Waitrose there. Hight of sophistication is M&S.

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12:59 If you read my comment carefully you will see that I said I doubt they had one, but you missed that point.
That’s the HEIGHT of poor reading comprehension.

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1:45 you are welcome to fill one of the teaching vacancies I’m struggling to fill in my school anytime, Father.

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Prestigious yet we have had two different people on the blog saying that they have been homophobically attacked in its local park. Hardly Central Park

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An Englishman, Paul Gallagher, is at the very heart of this, pulling the strings. He is a company man, through and through. I doubt if he ever looks back at what he is doing and what the institution of the Church looks like, and reflects. Perhaps one day he will, and then he might see how manipulative, controlling, cynical and corrupt is the institutional Church. One lesson he will learn is that the Chinese are so much cleverer than he is. They will outwit him, and they will make him and the Church look like fools. Just like they did the Brits when they took back HK.

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He was born in Liverpool. He is a priest of Liverpool Archdiocese. He studied at the Venerable English College in Rome. He speaks with an English moderated Scouse accent. If it walks, talks, quacks and craps like an Englishman, it is an Englishman !

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12:56 No Englishman is a Roman Catholic. That’s why the RC church is known as the Italian mission, and when you meet any of them the impression is overwhelmingly Irish and Polish.

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This is a very odd phenomenon, three of my grandparents changed religion twice, to RC the last time. We’re not “catholic aristocracy” and we don’t have Lancashire or Irish links. We just thought RC was another denomination. We thought you could choose your own religion or your grandparents could choose one. None of the three got any catechism, and my parents didn’t get much. I got more catechism from secular junior school than from the parish (in the south-east).

Anyone who thinks the RC has been functioning since WW I 1914, lives in fantasy land: it hasn’t recovered from that. BTW beware offers these days of “catechesis” and don’t attend any chapters of faults! Not all so called diocesan movements are diocesan.

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Francis should be pirouettng at the revelations suggesting that JP II was a paedophile-priest protector whom he canonised.

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Nah, he’d just rubber stamp them and think Francis was being calumniated by Commies. That’s what he did with everyone else, remember?

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The great Chinese philosopher- Pei Wei Shi- once said, “government should be free of religion, once Vatican gets hold, end of regime in sight”

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The great Chinese philosopher Pei Wei She once said to be tolerant and listen to the wisdom of philosophers instead of being a fool on social media

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Is there a Social Media Anonymous support group? I saw the one for Gamblers mentioned yesterday. I’d prefer to attend in a large Irish city in my civvies, I don’t want to bump into any colleagues or parishioners who may recognise me.

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Fr Anonymous at 11:50, I think in a Social Media Anonymous meeting you’d only be showing your face so there’s no risk anyone would recognize you from your online activity.

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How is Mis spelling a persons name a homophobic attack? Jesus Christ Pat, your readers are phobic crazy.

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The Extremely High Stakes of the China-Vatican Deal
Paul P. Mariani, S.J.
December 07, 2018.
” A new era for the Catholic Church in China began this past fall when Pope Francis signed off on a historic “provisional agreement” with the People’s Republic of China over the appointment of bishops in China. The accord broke a nearly 70-year impasse between Beijing and the Vatican. At the end of September the pope also gave an in-flight interview on the agreement and issued a message to the Catholics of China and the universal church explaining his reasons for making this bold step.”
“Announcing the agreement, Greg Burke, the director of the Holy See Press Office, stated that “the objective of the accord is not political but pastoral, allowing the faithful to have bishops that are in communion with Rome but at the same time recognized by the Chinese authorities.”
“If that is the case, then the decision to sign the “provisional agreement” might very well be a pastoral one. But it is a political one as well.”
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/12/07/extremely-high-stakes-china-vatican-deal

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Apparently there was complete abolition of belief between 1951 and 1960. Wouldn’t it have been more intrinsically normal for hierarchy to teach us to pray just as the Saviles and the moralisers were getting going? We hear constantly that Our Lady is not church approved. Well the church is not Our Lady approved.

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I was homophobic-ally attacked verbally by 3 masked men in the local park and I am scared to report it in case they know who I am

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Of course they know who you are Father, don’t be a cover up merchant all your life, do your civic duty & report so others don’t suffer the same or worse from these masked men.

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Was that in the Falls Park? My uncle was beat to a pulp there the other week by a stranger also in a hate crime. Report it all, these need to stop

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How come it’s always men that are homophobic attacked? Us women never seem to, or at least that is my own experience. Are the men just drama queens and possibly making it up?

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Sour grapes Patrick on this one perhaps, like the sad malcontent clergy, however, on here who hadn’t the balls to take on their bishop at the time but rant on here instead with their bitterness and a bottle too – especially that Brum one.

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Robert Nugent is absolutely bonkers, even Sinead O’Connor has commented on his obsession with young men masturbating. Alright, they may have had a successful rally in Derry the other week but MAM – men against Masturbation will have a short self life

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Is Robert Nugent definitely married? What woman could stick her husband constantly yakkking about young men wanking?

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12.29: I dare you to refer us to any specific videos where Robert Nugent says what you – liar- attribute to him. Tell us. There’s a nasty smell of hate being levelled against Robert in a vicious way. While I don’t agree with some of Robert’s narratives, we cannot but admire how he is constantly endeavouring to reach out to men who are searching for deep spiritual meaning in their lives. He successfully gathered over 1000 men in Derry recently for prayer, adoration, seminars and confession. I dont know if such an event ever happened before. Well done to Robert and God save him from the usual offensive creeps. Keep up your good work, Robert.

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D&C are in utter crisis; there have been two refusals to take the Bishops post and they are now starting to looking within the diocese for a successor.

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12:40 A clergyman in the Boiler Rooms will have outdone the stray dog in the pound ten fold.

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Stephen McBrearty has already ruled himself out of this post, Stephen Nolan would get this gig quicker

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The crunch issue is – is China paying the Vatican as part of agreement, if so, how much, is 1.6 million dollars/sterling credible?
Can anyone on this blog shed any light on this? Or is the money changing hands not to be relied?
Of it was loss to know that would be great.

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@2:33
Chinese dissident Guo Wengui claims that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) “allocates up to $2 billion a year” to buy the Vatican’s silence concerning the ongoing persecution of the Catholic Church in China and other human rights abuses. He made these claims in 2020. Do internet search for more information.

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CHINA- VATICAN
Hong Kong’s Roman Catholic Cardinal Joseph Zen blasts Vatican’s deal with China | DW News
DW News DW is a German public broadcast service. Wikipedia
Youtube Video 57,569 views Oct 28, 2020
The Roman Catholic Church has renewed a deal it made two years ago with China – which is an officially atheist Communist state – concerning Roman Catholic bishops there.
The agreement now gives the Pope the final say over the appointment of them.
But Beijing is the one who gets to come up with the choices.
Chinese authorities had previously selected Roman Catholic bishops without the say of the Vatican. And a division formed between state-sanctioned Roman Catholic clergy — and underground Roman Catholic bishops who operated outside state control.
The former Roman Catholic bishop of Hong Kong, Cardinal Joseph Zen, has spoken up about this. A pro-democrat, he has expressed concern over the Roman Catholic Church’s engagement with China. DW’s Joyce Lee interviewed Roman Catholic Cardinal Zen.
Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/user/deutsche

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THE POPE’S SHAMELESS CODDLING OF THE CHICOMS
He dignifies this stance as the “way of diplomacy.”
by George Neumayr
December 3, 2022.
“Early in his papacy, Pope Francis tweeted out, “Inequality is the root of social evil.” That statement remains a defining moment of his pontificate. Contained in that one remark is a Marxist mindset alien to the Church’s teachings which has animated many of the pope’s worst policies, including his appallingly sympathetic treatment of China’s brutal regime. One of his Argentine cronies at the Vatican, Bishop Marcel Sorondo, has said with a straight face, “[A]t this moment, those who best realize the social doctrine of the Church are the Chinese.” Tell that to the millions of Chinese peasants suffering under the Marxist heel of crude Chicoms for whom the degradation of human life is routine. Forced equality, not inequality, is the root of social evil in China.”

https://spectator.org/the-popes-shameless-coddling-of-the-chicoms/

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Symmachus at yesterday’s Post at 10.22pm
I was quite puzzled re JPII travelling freely back then in Poland – Soviet govt by proxy. I couldn’t understand he, not OTHER priests or bishops were left alone by then KGB now renamed as FSB.
You right re only possible explanation was that he’s compromised in some way that we don’t know for sure.
Did JPII report to polish secret services re other priests or bishops 🤔 or was he trapped or compromised by kgb in return for to travel freely especially to usa 1975 or 1976 and other countries.
Funny enough, church militant commented that most of the bad bishops or cardinals that we have now were picked by JPII.
Canonisation process is meaningless given the fact that JPII abetted the abusers in direct or indirect form.
Plus some popes who were freemason also canonised as well. Its a laughing stock and also a farce in our eyes.

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Bishop Buckley, more and more clergy are turning their backs on your blog. I am not one. They are probably lying on their front mind you – for obvious reasons.

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Eugene o hagan is very friendly with a lot of fellow clergy and he is in a good position to get the bishops job. He would be high profile also though with his celebrity status.

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It’s been 6 weeks since I buried my mother, I have never suffered so much mental heart ache in my life, and emotional, and didn’t think it was possible. My cat has just died this morning and now I have all the same feelings again that I did 6 weeks ago. I can not cope anymore with the loss of both within 6 weeks – what will I do Pat?

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7:47 Who cares! Our grandparents receive wonderful practical support from the local Shannon Garda who are once again hosting an afternoon tea for the senior citizens on 19th December and they provide plenty music and treats. The Garda are also delivering Christmas dinners to the elderly in our Shannon community every day next week.

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10.07 Nice one. The Gardai are doing a great job helping the elderly. Serving tea and hot meals to the elderly is far more valuable than serving them cold religiosity.

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Of course the church is political. (See previous blog comment) The Vatican state reflects this. Whats in it for China and why would they would they want to shake hands with Popio

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