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PRIESTS WHO FALL IN LOVE v ORGY PRIESTS.

To my mind, there is a massive difference between a priest who falls in love with another individual and a priest who is on the orgy circuit.

It is the most natural ( and beautiful) thing for two people to fall in love.

This has been the basis of marriage and family for a very long time.

Secular / Diocesan priests do not take a vow of CHASTITY.

They take a promise to be celibate – not to marry. Of course, chastity is implied in this promise.

Is it possible and moral to make a promise at 23 that implies going against nature for the rest of your life?

Surely, this is only possible for the very small minority of human beings that have the “charism” for celibacy.

The very first book of the Bible says: “it’s not good for a man to be alone.”

And that’s God talking !!!

To my mind, it is morally evil for the RCC to impose on every priest a burden for which only the rarest are given the grace.

What does a priest who genuinely falls in love with another do?

Does he declare his love to his people, his fellow priests, and bishop and suffer dismissal and exile?

Or does he live a double life ?

Double and secret lives are destructive of mental, emotional, and spiritual health.

I think that such a priest should, as Shakespeare and Lady Macbeth say – “Screw his courage to the sticking place”; tell his people, fellow priests, and bishop of his love and deal with the consequences.

Such honesty and authenticity ALWAYS bears fruit.

ORGY PRIESTS

The Church’s orgy priests are mainly of the antique disposition.

They are not seeking love, friendship, or companionship.

They are seeking orgasmic thrills, sexual conquests, and drug – or chemically sourced and mind-blowing experiences.

They are predatory monsters seeking self and mutual disintegration and are hiding behind ecclesiastical structures.

To me, these are “lost souls.” And while that is terribly sad in itself, they are targeting innocent young seminarians and other “lambs” and creating havoc in the House of the Lord.

165 replies on “PRIESTS WHO FALL IN LOVE v ORGY PRIESTS.”

Bullshit, Pat! Celibacy is not a charism, but a FREELY given commitment.
NO human is ever alone…but by choice. If he does not pray, then he will feel, acutely, unnecessary aloneness.
As ever, Pat, you are excusing human frailty rather than encouraging people to rise above this through grace.
You are NOT a disciple of Christ.

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Like bald men fighting over a comb. My son’s primary school has a bigger enrollment than the so-called Pontifical University of Maynooth

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First years enrolments in Maynooth hasn’t breached double figures for the past few years, but for this year it’s now an astonishing ten. Blog regular bp Phonsie remarked ‘God is calling’ so maybe the faint call got teensy bit louder. Some countries like Belgium bulk up their numbers by taking seminarians from from former colonies like Congo, or Eastern Europeans but while it might be fashionably inter or multicultural, the cultural distance might be too wide. Still they might appreciate the lot of a priest more than any local. Perhaps they might resist the urge some Irish priests have for night time park shenanigans
https://catholicnews.ie/ten-new-seminarians-have-begun-studies-for-irish-dioceses/#:~:text=Ten%20seminarians%20have%20begun%20their,number%20studying%20for%20the%20priesthood.

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What about the novice who took temporary vows at 24, and was cruising gay saunas in Dublin less than 24 hours later? His notions of service is being a sub to a confrere who 30 years senior. Not bad for a 47 year old! I saw him recently in the cruising area.

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Yes, there are still gay saunas in Dublin. They serve a function. I think saunas are a poor reflection where we still are in relation to sexuality and community. Sex parties are on rise

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9:55 most clergy and their close members who are engaged in this type of activity make more discreet arrangements.

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A damaging and life altering abusive, criminal population of wolves in sheeps clothing.says:

9:45 the daily reminder that RC Church and related activities are a real and present danger for young impressionable and vulnerable groups which is a great shame as there has never been a greater need for “safe spaces” for our youth in the midst of rapidly rising street crime, unprovoked knife attacks, one punch death inducing attacks. All in all the Roman Catholic Church no longer does what it says on the tin, it has irretrievably and deservedly lost the trust of the majority and rising as day after day more revelations of past and current coverups of unresolved abuse emerge worldwide.

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10:39. Do you mean a clerical position?
The GUM clinic minded him well after his other “positions”

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10.37
If, as you claim, celibacy is a freely given commitment, the way to express such would be to make it optional. That would show beyond foubt how freely undertaken it is.

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Of course celibacy is a freely made commitment. What are you talking about? Does anyone put a gun to the head of ordinands?

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Thanks for these little vignettes. Please write more about these times. I must have been a contemporary. I remember at least one of the Derry older guys. My experience was somewhat similar and somewhat different from yours. I had and have great regard for Ronan Drury and I never knew him to do anything of a molesting nature. It is very enjoyable to read what you have to say.

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An administrative position. I believe his teeth and gums were sorted in 1999

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10.27
Ordination is a free decision. Celibacy is currently obligatory if you want to be ordained, which, of course was not always the case and which is the nub of the matter here.

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10:36 is it Finny Fanny of the Satanic Verses or one of his close personal associates.

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I often hear the argument that no one is forced to be celibate, that it’s a free choice, but the reality is a guy in his late teens or early twenties is in no position to make such a choice. He has no idea how he will feel in his forties or fifties. Insisting someone remain celibate at that stage of life because of a vow taken in youth is coercion. It is not comparable to a marriage vow, as at least that is a choice for a new direction in life. Celibacy vows mean someone remaining in the same position but they have no way of knowing if they are capable of it. It is an unnatural way of life and we should not be surprised that the end result is it attracts men who either are closet gays (of course, there is nothing wrong with being gay, but let them be open about it) or who have serious personal problems which are going to affect their ministry. There are very few men who genuinely give it all up for God.

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The truth about Africa & Asia & the rest…. Watch this space for the Irish connections.says:

@10:37
“Excusing human frailty”

No one but no one will ever forgive a paedophile or enabler of any type of abuse particularly against children, young people, vulnerable people in any age group or location worldwide so keep smiling, voicing your false and intentionally deceptive platitudes, anyone who isn’t benefitting in some material way from an association with your corrupt church is judging you by your actions, Fathers & Co.

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11.07
I’m the poster at 10.37 pm.
What on earth has your comment to do with mine? Paedophilia? I didn’t mention it, much less excuse it.
Comment on what is actually on the page, not on what you imagine is there.

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Don’t mind posterboy @ 11:32 – they “imagine” they can still “enforce” “selective amnesia” on the sheep even those who’ve escaped! 🤣

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@1:05. More deflection – obviously zero integrity or intention to
Clean up your own backyard!

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Thanks for these little vignettes. Please write more about these times. I must have been a contemporary. I remember at least one of the Derry older guys. My experience was somewhat similar and somewhat different from yours. I had and have great regard for Ronan Drury and I never knew him to do anything of a molesting nature. It is very enjoyable to read what you have to say.

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Pat, the halfwit at 11.46 am has posted his badly written comment a number of times today at different, mostly irrelevant points. He’s obviously a troll.

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12:47 he’s either Ronan Drury or an embittered cleric stirring s**** against Ronan Drury. Two faced as per usual in the RCC Mafia.

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Typical you believe that you are God to say that pat is not a disciple of Christ.
It is God alone who sees the love in peoples heart. Are the clergy who abused little children disciples of Christ.?

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Making a vow/promise at 23 and fulfil it for the rest of your life….
The last minor to be admitted to Maynooth, Fr Jonathan Flood, Raphoe, took 12 Mths off in July 2021 and remains MIA.

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Another man from the Ryan McAleer & Thomas McHugh intake class. That class set the foundation for the malicious pink wave that would dominate the next decade. There was a seminarian in that class, JC, who would go on to commit suicide. Little is known of Jonathan Flood who was one of two minors in that class, both from Raphoe. Its calls into question Boyce’s willingness to take in impressionable young men.

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9:10 as an older heterosexual person my view and experience from speaking to my gay friends is that many gay people are hoping to find a genuine life partner and these days many with the help of supportive friends create a family unit with children. It is therefore so wrong and deceitful on every level for gay Roman Catholic clergy who initiate relationships in the full knowledge that they have zero intention of anything honourable other than satisfying their own needs to initiate gay relationships and frequently they lie and hide the fact that they are priests. This is cruel and heartless exploitation and very disrespectful and it has made more people aware of the duplicitous clergy in our midst in communities. They have “chosen” to be untrustworthy in every respect along with their members who enable them in every way.

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@11.37
I agree with you on the content of your comment, even if it doesn’t relate to my comment.

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What percentage of seminarians in Ireland have committed suicide in the past 25 years including those within three years of leaving Seminary?

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At 12.53
I would also like to ask, in the last 25 years what % remained practicing Catholics after seeing the conduct within the seminary? We used pride ourselves on the role of former seminarians in education & health management roles. Now we see them dissappear into oblivion and given the recent news the Department of Health and the Catholic Church in Ireland appear to have been behaving like identical twins separated at birth. I.e. the attitude of, “if there is a scandal we will Bury it and the complainant”. They must have the same law firm.

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Reply to;Not Philip Boycesays:
Feb 5, 2023 at 11:04 pm
I absolutely agree with you on the point you make, regarding promises made at 23 years old, we all change as we grow older, what is ideal at a young age, does not seem so attractive, sensible, or achievable at a later stage in life. It’s ridiculous not to expect people and their opinions to change, surely we change from idealistic to realistic.
However, how many young men enter the priesthood today specifically, with one goal in mind, to meet men similar to themselves and, their homosexual orientation?

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QUEENIEVENUS PLUTO, I would think there is no need for it with genuine homosexuals nowadays. They can meet and form relationships in such a variety of contexts 11.37 observed that.
Yet your point remains valid. I think there is a more sinister type of homosexual person who goes to seminary to have a fully funded poly-sexual lifestyle, free of commitments that matter to them. I also think that the presence of such men push genuine seminarians to the brink. It is hard to know if the church persecutes homosexuals or if that sinister type of homosexual is getting revenge on the Church.. a love-hate relationship is to the fore.
And then there were child seminarians like Jonathan Flood – exposed to all that we see on the blog here… did Boyce abuse the child by placing him into Maynooth as a minor? Did he seek permission from Mr & Mrs Flood?

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‘Is it possible and moral to make a promise at 23 that implies going against nature for the rest of your life?’
So they shouldn’t make the promise. Simple.
Once again nobody is forcing these men to do this, and they need to man up and not make the promise at all.
These men are not being coerced or victims, what they are is liars.

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– They get paraded in front of parishioners in their 3 rd year to shame them into not backing out. Maybe their mothers shamed them into going to pre-seminary in the first place?
– In the case of not much older men maybe an “element” shamed them into giving up all their wealth and substance.
– A better solution would be to not promise the power of confectioning, but dangle the prospect of spending eternity as semi-permanent deacon.

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It isn’t necessarily a question of coercion, it’s about lacking the maturity to make such a decision at that age. That said, there’s no question that some men were coerced by parents or relatives into the priesthood or religious life. I always remember my late mother quoting her mother as saying that a cousin who became a Christian Brother was ‘kidnapped’.

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Pat, You must be respected for your decision to be true to yourself and the way you wanted to live your life. You left the RC priesthood because you were not prepared to live a lie as a sexually active gay man in a celibate priesthood and Church which teaches that homosexual acts are gravely sinful.
I agree with your assessment that many actively gay RC priests are psychotic. Psychosis is a condition whereby thoughts and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality.
The object of the human possible intellect is truth. If the possible intellect has been habituated to lie it does constant violence to its very nature and the consequence is its inability to be able to differentiate delusion from objective reality. Lies and deceit are rampant among the Episcopacy and clerical body as a result of the huge numbers of gay men in each. Some estimate that up to 50% of American bishops are gay. These figures could be extrapolated to the Irish bishops and clergy. See link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/mccarrick-is-tip-of-the-iceberg-polish-priest-who-warned-of-gay-bishops-5-y
It is logical that a sexually active gay priest or bishop will not only think that the Church is wrong with regard to homosexual acts, but could also be wrong regarding its moral teaching in other areas such as abortion, divorce, pre-marital sex, masturbation, etc. Hence why we currently have such a massive rebellion against Catholic teaching and failure to uphold its eternal truths among many cardinals, bishops and priests.
The dichotomy is so strong between what an actively gay priest is meant to believe and teach and what he subjectively believes and lives that psychosis can be the sad outcome. Their entire lives turn into a constant act and lie. It is a sad way to live. They do a terrible injustice to lay Catholics who want to be taught the truths of the Church which they believe and love.
Any sexually active gay priest who has no intention of adhering to Catholic tenets should leave the priesthood for the good of the long suffering laity.

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3.17
Your comment is typical of the cultural warrior ilk.
“Hence why we currently have such a massive rebellion against Catholic teaching and failure to uphold its eternal truths among many cardinals, bishops and priests.”
Eternal truths? Such as obligatory priestly celibacy which was made mandatory in the 1100’s. Wives of bishops of Rome are attested in the first Christian millennium.

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3.17
I’m surprised you provided this link. Fr Dariusz Oko says that ‘homosexual relationships are a caricature of marriage’. Pat wouldn’t agree.

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There is nothing wrong with a reasoned argument and it is pathetic to dismiss someone as a self hating gay. All you do is show up your own prejudices. My beef is that the RC institution says one thing and does another. How can they preach one thing to the faithful and do the complete opposite. This institution is well past its sell by date. From many of the comments on this blog over recent times it would appear that some are quite content for the RC institution to continue to carry on in its hypocritical way or are quite happy to turn a blind eye.

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@3:18 our experience is that it is a cynical business model utilising God as a front. Interactions with clergy and members have sadly confirmed this. A corrupt methodology from the bottom up amongst clergy and their laity.

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“If the possible intellect has been habituated to lie”. Weren’t we told mental reservation is a “catholic” thing? My instinct to be a cafeteria catholic was a good one. To enter into a delusion induced by many of one’s seniors when one utters announcements or takes decisions is grave peril.
Laity and clergy alike need to reflect what constitutes sin in not teaching prayer, never mind any “eucharist”. “Eucharist” (which is materialist) was always the unspoken elephant in the room around questions of priesthood, marriages and confessions.

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Show me the priest or bishop who is not gay / has homosexual inclinations ! When I meet a priest, or a bishop, I assume (and believe that I am right in that assumption) that he will be gay. He might well be celibate, but his inclinations are homosexual. I’m always right. My GayDar for bishops and priests is well tuned ! But, actually, I couldn’t care less if they are gay. I just want them to be decent, good, and holy men. What they do with their little bits in privacy, I don’t care about. As long as it is consensual and not abusive. And as long as they aren’t telling us all the next morning from the pulpit about how to live our lives in the area of sexuality and relationships, and being hypocritical. Other than that, I’m cool about it. And, I reckon God is too – he/she has much more important things to worry about than our loins and genitals and what silly things we get up to with them.

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3.19
You dismiss human sexual misbehaviour so casually. It is principally these behaviours that drive souls to Hell. Yes, I know they don’t constitute the most serious sins: there are worse, including murder, and the exploitation of the poor. But these sins aren’t as common as sexual sin, which is available to ALL of us.
Our Lady of Medugorje said that most souls in Hell are there through sexual sin.
I very much doubt whether God shares your quaint disregard for this sin, given its terrible capacity for spiritual havoc and damnation.

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At some point in the formation of every one of the priests who can’t or won’t remain celibate it has been discerned by others that God was calling him to priesthood. This can mean one or several of:
1. God doesn’t exist.
2. The formators had it wrong.
3. The candidate was lying or mistaken about his own predisposition to a celibate life.
4. They were right and God was calling them but doesn’t want a celibate priesthood.

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I think the most bizarre (out of a wide choice) thing about Catholicism is the notion of praying for vocations to priesthood.
The priesthood God himself started.
As the essential means of grace through the sacraments.
In the church he himself founded.
And promised to guide and support to the end of time.
It is inconceivable that God would need anymore to ask him to send priestly vocations 😂
Unless, possibly, he’s telling us something by not sending vocations. 😳

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Anon@ 3:23. There’s really no point in asking logical questions seeking explanations for anything to do with religion, especially the RCC.
The whole thing is a make believe shibboleth, or as some say, a paughhil of $£!te.

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Well, for the first thousand or so years of Christianity, God was happy with both a celibate AND married and clergy.
Unfortunately, what God has joined together man (well, clerical man) often puts asunder. (Just ask God on love and enemy.😆)

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By the way, who was the priest caught in a toilet menage a trois (or more !) in NI recently ? That seems to have gone quiet. I suppose he will be sent away for a while and then given a little parish somewhere in the country where there are no public toilets !

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What is the point of providing links to articles that cannot be read without a subscription to the publication?

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4:01 The Roman Catholic Church is corrupt in every way from the top to the very bottom of clergy and their teams of self interested laity and associates. They are a Mafia who circumvent every law going at ongoing personal costs to victims and survivors of church related abuse worldwide.

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Dear Bishop Pat, I would like to know your views on ‘clericalism’. I understand clericalism to be a state of mind rather than a state of dress (“Victorian clergymen”). Clericalism in my view is about those embalmed on the palms of their hands behaving like prime ministers of their parishes instead of being pastors.

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Most of the discussion on this blog is about homosexual priests. The dominant concern about homosexuality suggests a prejudice. There must be as many and, very probably, more priests in heterosexual relationships with women. They are not chased, vilified or judges. Yes, prejudice. All Hail Ye, all hail.

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‘There must be as many and, very probably, more priests in heterosexual relationships with women’
Not since all the straight priests left and married nuns in the sixties. 😂

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8:51 yes there are heterosexual and bi sexual priests as well as gay priests but the simple fact is that unless they do something to draw the attention of the police to them, Bishops proactively cover up for them and some bishops continue to move clergy around or keep them employed on church duties in offices and behind the scenes. It’s a Mafia with zero regard for anyone outside its dangerous circles. A proactively abusive Church.

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A lot of priests must be laughing behind the backs of the faithful. The Sunday collection and Mass stipends paying for them to take their boyfriends on holiday, or entrance fees to gay saunas, poppers, or for rent boys.

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They get a lot more than pennies for poppers and extras at the sauna, don’t be fooled, dig deeper…..

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The majority of clergy are homosexual – it’s is a gay profession- the Vatican is populated almost entirely by homosexuals – a gay village if you like. It’s an unpalatable truth I grant you but check out Dyan Elliot Corrupter of Boys homosexuality and pedastary as old as the church – although not necessarily a causal link between the two – celibacy is a cloak, mask or veil – it masquerades as virtue but it’s a device which conceals and hides – oh and many gay men live the long robes, frills, lace, Gaudete Sunday an favoured feast day etc!!
Makes me laugh that the party line is don’t ordain gay men – when all they do is ordain gay men – a straight priest is an oxymoron and as rare as unicorn droppings.

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How dare you imply the Vatican is full of nancy boys. A straighter priest than Fr Paul Moss you’ll be pressed to find.

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Viri probati. How does Fr. Tom Deenihan explain to married men of good standing that they cannot be ordained? While at the same time, he can continue freely to masquerade as a bishop while he continues his persecution of Dom Benedict Andersen, the true Prior of Silverstream.
The secular society are enjoying a public holiday today. Why do they continue to celebrate a public holiday for St. Patrick and now celebrate a public holiday for St. Brigid?

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Just started reading The Best Catholics in the World by Derek Scally – he’s an Irish journalist based in Berlin – v insightful and beautifully observed – check out the contempt wit which clergy treat lay people – the party is over – Pope Francis visit to Ireland was a protest visit – the people stayed away – Catholics in the West (especially Ireland and Poland) are pissed off, fed up, disillusioned and are voting with their feet to stay away and not return – especially as once not going to Mass was a mortal sin FFS!! Not anymore the clergy decided and the people are off the leash – new era thank God – homosexuality isn’t the problem – child abuse is major problem – but their biggest problem is hypocrisy, double standards, double lives all wrapped up in clericalism.

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Safeguarding people are paid by the bishop and owe him their loyalty. Many of them are ex social workers who would sell their mother for sixpence.

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What about seminarians who want to explore, ‘ E’ problem, their sexuality in seminary as mentioned on this blog a few days ago?

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The link in Wikipedia is a glowing tribute to Fr. Lavery. What is your problem? Are you just a priest baiter who likes sticking the boot into dead men?
If only they were all like that in larne.

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9.00
Everything about Lavery was very fine.
Eamon Martin took over the seminary choir after Lavery left and did a great job. Great memories of those Halcyon days.

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He died A young man in his sixties, l saw his grave recently at the Colombian cemetery Navan. In Maynooth in the eighties many seminarians chose Fr Sean Lavery as their spiritual directors rather than the appointed Vincentians spirirual directors.

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6.51
Wasn’t there a fall out from the arrangements put in place after Lavery left – at least one resignation?

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Frank the nightwatchman (the security guard, not the Junior Dean) had a lurid tale from the Junior Infirmary. It got back to Ledwith, and as a sure sign that irony was dead in Maynooth, Ledwith got the Trustees to give Lavery the boot.

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Bishop Pat, any news when the findings of the inquiry into the Bill Kenneally case involving cover up in Waterford is to be published. Am I right in saying Kenneally is related to the late Mons. John Shine, Rip.?

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+ Pat, you have done a good job in highlighting various malaises in the Catholic Church and the Catholic priesthood. Well done. The current theme, homosexualisation of the priesthood and questionable cultures and behaviours within the ranks of the clergy and the seminary training system, is valuable. HOWEVER…..whilst these are important themes and need to be brought to the light, at this time surely there are other important issues that need to be aired and addressed ? Life is changing before our eyes, and the life of the Church and how it ministers in these days are important issues, not just as a way of pointing out the silliness that self-seeking clergy are prepared to get up to in order to make themselves ‘relevant’ and out of an abundance of self seeking attention, but also surely as a way of showing some of the great goodness that is going on amongst the faithful who are ministering to each other in quiet and loving ways on a daily basis ? I’d like to hear stories of that goodness. I think that this shift in emphasis will be long-lasting, and will curtail the clergy / minister dominated hold that bishops and priests have had for too long on the Church and the faithful. I think in the future people will value them for what good they do, but will readily see that they can step in to the undoubted breaches and lacks that we know are abundant in the institution of the Church and amounts the ranks of the clergy. This is a time for the faithful to take their rightful place. So, how about a debate on that development and some good news about the way our Church will emerge from the current times. ? Please ! Thanks !

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Pat may I ask you a direct sensitive question. During your time as a seminarian were you ever physically or sexually assaulted. Pat in my seminary there is a room called the Pit.

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I dont fully agree. I celebrated my 18th bday in Maynooth. Straight from leaving cert in to seminary. One of our class was 16. I left tho thankfully. By ages 23/24 most people can marry vote etc. The problem then was not age but indoctrination.. brainwashing.. from parents.. parishes and seminary.. in my class there was a couple of older men . They took pleasure in ‘educating’ us innocent teen virgins. Derry diocese led the way.. those wells off long corridor saw the most action. My first male kiss was there.. and learned a few other things too. Sticky sheets etc.. sunday afternoons were free and we could leave Maynooth. I remember a v interesting experience with a Cork seminarian .. in long corridoor we had to share rooms.. i found it mortifying.. shaving.. dressing etc in front of another boy.. he was straight and very prudish.. shame.. not so in the other rooms tho. The swimming pool near Rhetoric House was a big favourite during our September spiritual months . Got my first bj there…Remember at that time as Ferns report revealed later the college president was ‘entertaining’ one of our class in his rooms over the Arch..hard to believe. Rhonda (Ronan) Drury ran his hands all over me and groped me. Ahh an innocent lad up from the country learned a few skills he wasnt expecting to in those bleak ’80s. On a sad note. I remember Tim Corby got a mention here last week. Such a lovely fella. Cashel Diocese. Was so gutted when I heard off his death. Rip..Fr. Frank Duhig was our dean. He hadnt a clue poor man. At that time over 150 seminarians to watch in Junior Oratory..’Formation’ was a joke..

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10.05
Thanks for these little vignettes. Please write more about these times. I must have been a contemporary. I remember at least one of the Derry older guys. My experience was somewhat similar and somewhat different from yours. I had and have great regard for Ronan Drury and I never knew him to do anything of a molesting nature. It is very enjoyable to read what you have to say.

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I was in Maynooth in the 1980s and don’t remember any of that happening. For those who don’t know, the wells of Long Corridor were lower floor rooms, at both ends of Long Corridor and, in the main, were occupied by retired college domestic staff who lived in. They tended to ignore the students.

I shared a room in Long Corridor in 1986 and there was no gay activity anywhere. I would have heard of it, had there been any.

As for the swimming pool, you could see under the cubicle doors if you were in the water, so any bjs would have been noticed, I think.

In fact, the only scandal of that type involved a Kilmore sem (PR), who was sent home very quickly when the Guards told Frank Duhig that PR was cottaging in the public loos in the village.

And yes, I remember 150 students packed into Junior Oratory, which nowadays is offices for Maynooth University, the pews and organ removed and the sanctuary boarded up. The entire seminarian population now is 14. Where did it all go wrong?

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10.05
You are the type of person Pope Benedict XVI had in mind when, in 2008, he instructed that those with ‘deep-seated homosexual tendencies’ should not be admitted to seminary.
It is good that you left Maynooth, Flurry Gin, otherwise you should have been booted out.

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O God, here we go again with the celibacy debate ! So, here’s how it is. Yes, celibacy is a charism that has the capacity to bring great good and grace. In the right place and the right person. Very few people are given the true gift of celibacy. For them, it should be respected and encouraged. However, the blanket requirement for celibacy in the RCC from priests means that many, in fact the vast majority, are unsuited to celibacy and do not have the charism of celibacy, but despite this they are shoehorned in to a celibate priestly life. The result ? Disaster and damage all around. We see this day in and day out. Twee, pious protestations from old women bishops about celibacy being such a blessing (Cardinal Oullet, recently gone from the Dicastery for Bishops, was a keen advocate of celibacy) do nothing to obscure the truth and the facts. The present lived situation of celibacy leads priests in to dysfunction and a lack of integrity in their lives with all of the consequent lifestyle compromises that we see, the damage of which is then inflicted on the Church at large. The case is quite clear for the RCC priesthood to become mainly a non-celibate priesthood. It will be healthier and more honest. In the meantime, more savvy youngsters who might be interested in a life of priestly ministry, do not buy the celibacy requirement and know that it is something that will stop them flourishing, and so do not come forward. Ergo, vocations crisis. For those who do opt for celibacy and are suited to it, then the requirement of a chaste and celibate lifestyle should be expected. For the non-celibate, a life in accordance with a good Christian understanding of healthy and honest relationships should be the norm. There will be exceptions, and they should be dealt with and people moved on and out if they do not want to live by what is required of them. As happens in any other walk of life. You know, this is not a difficult concept to understand and to deal with. It is just being made so, with subsequent suffering and pain all around, by intransigent, obdurate, self-serving bishops and priests who hang on the a concept that is long past useful, and now is a real danger to the Church. I just wish they would move on.

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In the absence of intelligent arguments about priesthood and celibacy, apart from some very good reflective comments, we’re back to the same repetitive insulting, ugly and cliched vitriol against clerics, purely for the purpose of slamming the church, celibacy and priesthood. Some of the more intelligent comment are worthwhile. We all know there’s a crisis in the church re: priesthood and celibacy. Now after 40 years, I see the destructive nature of trying to live priesthood
and celibacy. The church’s teachings have not helped. Binding any person into celibacy, willingly or otherwise, is a huge moral and spiritual risk as it defies the normal human longings of the heart. Sex is such an integral part of who we are as human beings. To be filled with a fear, guilt and self loathing for having human sexual feelings and emotions is a moral abuse. It has created many unhappy and frustrated men, sadly and some, in coping with their discontentment and unfulfilled sexual urges have resorted to wrongful behaviours – drugs, drink, promiscuous sexual liaisons, child abuse…Some have even taken their lives. We urgently require professional psychologists, spiritual guides, scripture scholars, theologians and psychiatrists to present a renewed vision of being priest and living celibacy or making it optional. I have worked with some very wonderful priests who remained faithful to all they undertook as priests at ordination, men who inspired in every way, men who taught me much. But I have also seen the other side where the expectations, personal struggles, inability to be responsible in everyday work by priests turned them into utterly disillusioned men, made worse by not knowing what to do, who to trust. I’m not asking for any entitlements, status or special considerations. I am intelligent enough to realise I am the one who must make the best of what I’ve given my life to. There is much that is wrong and much I won’t ever change but I can hope and pray for a better, more humane understanding of celibacy and priesthood. In the meantime, I try to carry out, like many others, the responsibilities entrusted to us, albeit with difficulties.

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@11:10 – so, give us your observations, ‘father’. Or do you just repeat parrot fashion what you think the Church says ? Look where than has got us.

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Reflective and sane comment @1056, capturing the complexity of this issue. However, if there is not some sensible and well thought out development and advancement of the matter, rather than just digging in of the heels, then things will not get better and the human collateral, which you have well described, will continue. It will be a bit like the attrition of warfare, just going on and on and sacrificing so much, for so little gain, except maintaining a status quo. But, at huge cost. So, while I want to understand all of the issues involved, and all of the sensitivities involved – theological, moral, human, behavioural, emotional – I still want to see an openness to a conversation that will look at a way forward. Rather than just hitting a brick wall of intransigence that simply refuses to discuss things and be open to change because of some long held theology or tradition. Actually, the matter has a dynamic of its own, because sustaining a church built on a celibate priesthood is simply becoming unsustainable and is teetering on the brink of collapse. That will happen in the not too distant future, with unmanageable and unforeseeable consequences. Better, surely, to have these conversations now, to be open to change, to implement change for a better priesthood, rather than slide down the tube of disaster.

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11.32: People like 11.10 don’t ever have any worthwhile arguments to offer. He probably wrote this piece of unintelligent crap sitting on his loo bowl which I think is where his brain is permanently…😂😁🤣🤣🤣..

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11.30, Rome (deliberately) forgot that priesthood of believers (i.e kingdom of heaven) does not equate to “movements” which are an extra decoy layer, as is belatedly clergifying manquee would-have-been-nuns, or relaxing morals for the ever more fussed over upper classes in the church, or appointing expensive and iron fisted Chief Operatives (reasonable administration used to be part of wiser bishops’ pastoring).
When ordinary mums, dads and children, bachelors and spinsters, job or no job, supplicate behind the back of any hierarchy or eucharistolatry, that will be the only priesting God will stomach. If the rosary isn’t familiar, mouth Glory Be’s without counting!

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@10:56. You seem an intelligent thoughtful guy. But surely you must realise by now that it, the proposition of priesthood, religious ‘teachings ‘ and the like, are all a sham.
Kinda “sticks in yer craw” feeling!
Maybe like many older ‘honest’ priests you just keep your head down and take consolation in helping activities?

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10.56
An intelligent extended reflection. Well said. The poster at 11.10 (MC) isn’t worth taking seriously, so carry on without lowering yourself to his abysmal level. Excellently put.

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D’Arcy has tried to muscle in on Daniel O’Donnell’s sister’s funeral taking place in his home parish in Donegal today. Bishop McGuckian has made it known D’Arcy has no canonical jurisdiction in Raphoe.

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The Catholic Church, especially here in Scotland, will not survive the 21st century and it pains me to say that. I am in my late 20s and I still go to Mass and I’m honestly starting to feel disillusioned; I am one of 3 people in their 20s who go to my parish every Sunday. A question I ask myself regularly is why do I even bother? My parents who are nearly 60 have stopped going regularly too. The Masses in my parish are so rushed and uninspiring that I leave unfulfilled and dissatisfied. The bishop, clergy and seminarians of my diocese do not fill me with much confidence either. I think once my grandparents’ generation has passed, 2040 onwards will be very difficult for the Church here and will decline. In fact, the decline has already started.

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Go and take up something more meaningful on a Sunday. Go and volunteer at a soup kitchen or joint next door and help elderly and vulnerable people with tasks such as shopping or collecting medications. Join a non toxic political party and try and effect change in your local community. Don’t waste your time with the church peddling its lies and supporting its errant clergy. It’s one of my regrets that I gave them my more youthful years and didn’t get out till 35.

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Bishop McGuckian has been sneaking around spreading his vile messages through his cliques. He won’t come out straight and say it in public. Fr Brian D’Arcy is by no means perfect as none of us are but he has been treated very badly by both his lay and clerical colleagues at the behest of the church hierarchy and the public can see that for themselves yet paedophiles and money fiddlers are enabled by Bishops including Phonsie Cullinan with the €70K missing in the parish of one of his priests being just one of many examples of how Bishops will cover up for their pets in Irish and UK Diocese. Fr Brian does not hurt people, shame the same cannot be says if his toxic colleagues. Bless him.

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I am a priest who has given up ministry. Honestly, the main reason was I just got tired of it. Tired of the silliness and nonsense of what I was expected to tacitly support and what people thought that I thought. Tired of being asked to do more and more simply because those in leadership hadn’t the will or the nous to manage things creatively and better. Tired of being public property with people assuming that they had a right to know everything I did or thought, and to make a judgement. Tired of watching youngsters swanning around playing a clerical game of dressing up and acting out. Oh, and lots more. Now, from the sidelines I am much more relaxed and happier, far less constrained, able to decide for myself, able to courteously and kindly agree to disagree, and generally not to give a stuff about so much and about so many people and things. It’s wonderful ! In the meantime inane arguments swirl around about such issues as celibacy and gay clergy, and I just laugh that people are investing so much time in these things, and not putting their energy in to really what matters, which is the Gospel of love and compassion. Read the Sermon on the Mount, Beatitudes.

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11:40 Thank you for your honest and refreshing post. Wishing you many long and happy years in your new life and congratulations on your integrity and bravery in making the decision to move on.

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11.40: These posts of great honesty are valuable and worthwhile. Thank you. I suspect that you describe the experience of many priests at thus juncture in the life if the church and priesthood. The changes in every which way were coming fast but the pandemic years have accentuated the process of decline in religious faith, not spirituality but faith per se. And with such greatn upheavals in understanding of faith, belonging to church, which still matters to many, many people, celibacy, priesthoid and with the irrevocable effects of sexual abuse scandals, priests today are marginalised, almost to the point of simply being undertakers!! We’re saying “goodbye” to hundreds after sacramental celebrations and still called upon to bury loved ones. Outside of some school work…visiting the sick, preparing couples ffor ir marriage, administrative work-related responsibilities, – all of which are important – but trying to have the energy after 45/50 years, is almost impossible. When our original dreams, vision and dreams die, so too does our priesthood. How can we be expected to stay “alive” within at 70-89 years of age…Many, like yourself would like to get out…

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You’ll be even more relaxed when you acknowledge that accepting and believing the shibboleth of religious fundamentals is to participate in one of the greatest con jobs ever.

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12.09: Sorry for your concerns as I’ve never been one to give up!! Ever. Nor do I accept your defeatist cynicism. I still believe I am of some use for GOD.

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3.10. OK, if he, she, it, or ‘whatever ‘ exists: outside your imagination.
Evidence?
Paddy. Yes, about 15 years ago. I enjoyed a nice “poached” salmon there too😋

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What’s the difference between a priest in a relationship and one who goes to orgies/uses Grindr etc? None, according to the gay lobby, who told us during the same sex marriage referendum that “love is love”.

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Thanks for these little vignettes. Please write more about these times. I must have been a contemporary. I remember at least one of the Derry older guys. My experience was somewhat similar and somewhat different from yours. I had and have great regard for Ronan Drury and I never knew him to do anything of a molesting nature. It is very enjoyable to read what you have to say.

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11:46 Nursey will be along shortly to remove your phone as it is interfering with the medical equipment, Father.

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I was somewhat perturbed by the appointment of a new bishop who, as a seminarian, was sexually active with other seminarians at the NAC in the early 2000s. However, on reflection, he is now fat, and unattractive. I wonder if these people reach a point in their priesthood of settling down. Maybe they accept their past sinfulness was inappropriate. They may even seek to change the church from the inside and therefore accept the nomination.

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Well, what can you do? If his contemporaries don’t speak up and inform the nuncio, why should I? He’s an immigrant into the US, and they need them for all the Latinos.

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The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ and cannot sin and is holy. It is therefore a sin to attack the Church through her priests, since these are the head of her who cannot do wrong.
The priests reveal the thoughts of her to Christ. They are the beating heart, the animus principia, and resolve to satisfaction the relationship between the holy bride and her divine spouse.
All of this has meaning and significance for us, because we cannot be united to Christ, buf not to the Church, IN HER PRIESTS.

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‘It is easy to be celibate, until you fall in love. ‘
I forget who said this, probably a priest who couldn’t keep his flies done up. But it’s true, all the same. The only way to guarantee NOT falling in love is to live a life of complete isolation. Hardly reasonable.

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First Bank Holiday to celebrate a woman in Republic of Ireland today - St Bridgetsays:

Our international friends may be interested to know that St Bridget’s Day is on 1st February every year. However, as of 2023 the first Monday in February is now a Bank Holiday in celebration of this female saint also linked to our ancient Celtic heritage here in Ireland.
Happy St Bridget’s holiday!

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Guess who’s to blame for priestly celibacy? Paul the Ap.
That nonsense in the Gospel about celibacy (eunuchs for the K of H) was probably not said by Christ at all, but is a later addition many years later by a neurotic champion of celibacy who had misunderstood Paul and thought that marriage = sin.

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Clergymen of good standing are appalled by Fr. Tom Deenihan’s mistreatment of Dom Benedict Andersen. Clergymen behaving badly are turning a blind eye to Fr. Tom Deenihan’s despicable behaviour.
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Pax.

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6.06: Seamys: you are being utterly stupid at this stage. Pat should stop printing your huffing and puffing. YOU, big mouth should go to the Bishop and speak your mind to him. If you’re a cleric, that will prove your cowardice in not doing so. Your bleating on about The Bishop and Dom Benedict is infantile and ludicrous. We all know the wrong done to Dom Benedict. I wrote to the Bishop. Did you? NOPE. Also, if you have any genuine concern or pastoral care for Dom Benedict, have you ever written to him, invited him for a stay or emailed him by way of showing solidarity with him? Your daily repeats are making you appear silly. Answers on a stamp please…Stay with the topics of the day.

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Seamus at 6.06: It’s BISHOP DEENIHAN not Fr….Your attempt to minimise his role is both infantile and utterly pathetic. And you want us to appreciate your nauseous comments each day? Always the same crap. If you’re a cleric, you seem to have a bizarre sense of Christian charity. As asked by others, have you demonstrated any singular gesture of support to Dom Benedict apart from moaning about his treatment here? Probably not because that requires getting up off your arse and actually doing something constructive. Try for once instead of crying on this blog.

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8:08, there are people reading this blog today who are in possession of scandalous information, that will smoke Fr. Tom Deenihan out of his episcopal office. These people must come forward and bring this scandalous information to the attention of Pat. Fr. Tom Deenihan will be returning to Cork with his tail between his legs.
Pax.

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6:06 the Irish Bishops are a money mad bunch of reprobates and expert cover up merchants.

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6.06
There’s a technical problem on the blog. Comments are being duplicated without authorial intervention. Can lead to paranoia in some punters.

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A priest in a neighbouring parish has been in a long term relationship with a woman he met in a previous parish, probably over thirty years ago. They are very discreet in how they manage their feelings for each other. They are now in their late seventies. Parishioners know and have nothing but love and respect for him. He is a good man, kind and considerate to all and living proof that you don’t have to be celibate to be a priest. Or rather, the intimacy and love experienced in a loving relationship (off whatever kind) is what makes for a better person and therefore a better priest.
God protect us from the reprobates regularly featured in this blog and those who fail to call them to account. By their fruits you will know them. Unfortunately for the RCC the damage is done. I like many others am seeking a different path back to God, our creator and the ultimate source of who and what we are and will become.

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8.28: More of your huffing abd puffing Seamy Boy…What are you doing then with your “scandalous” information? Also, I consider your concern for Dom Benedict with suspicion. You have a vested interest. Tell us the truth apart from what you keep parroting ad nauseam. HAVE YOU, AT ANY TIME, PERSONALLY INTERVENED WITH ANOTHER ON BEHALF OF DOM BENEDICT? HOW FAR HAVE YOU GONE WITH YOUR CARE? Answers would be appreciated Seamus, not your infantile avoiding of legitimate questions.

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Sometime in the not-too-distant future, the cardinals will be gathered in conclave to select a new Sovereign Pontiff. It is chilling to consider just how many of the cardinal-electors are likely to be vulnerable to blackmail.

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3.48pm: I can fully appreciate your decision to fund, as you say, another pathway to God and there are many. However, if you have a love for Christ in the Eucharist, in the Sacraments and through prayer and contemplation, I think you should find a parish church or a Catholic lay community who may provide the nourishment you are seeking. There are some good parishes that are welcoming and inclusive and whose spirit is conducive to spiritual growth in God. The truth about scandals is horrendously negative and impact on genuinely good Catholics. As a priest I very frequently have to walk the pathway of spiritual growth in God through much scrubland and desert and despair. I place my trust daily in God to accompany me through these times and it pains my heart that any person, for whatever reason, chooses to leave their original spiritual home. When people leave, the return journey may never happen or people choose a different spiritual way. Sadly, this blog is not concerned with the many good priests and parishes who truly care about people and what affects their lives. Do not give up and perhaps find a community whom you feel at home with, including finding some very caring clerics. We must each discern for ourselves our spiritual path but, despite all that has happened to destroy our credibility, I could not or would not abandon my Catholic spirituality, prayer or sense of community and belonging. The parish where I work is so kind, caring and supportive, though smaller in numbers since the pandemic. I wish you every blessing. I am glad that you are still a searcher and seeker of God.

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Thank you for taking the time to reply. I consider myself a christian in the catholic tradition and hope that the faith I had in earlier years still exists but it is in need of much TLC. I suppose everyone spends some time in the wilderness, struggling in our relationship with God but always fed manna from above by him. That keeps me going. Thank you.

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Remaining Roman clerics of goodwill can still support us when their superiors allow, by sermons, even confessions and by their role in presiding at mass readings, Lord’s Prayer, Creed, reciting the psalter, etc.

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Nazareth house sisters were always good to Maynooth sems. Hammersmith.. east finchley ..cardiff. Little did they know what was really going on.. naughty sems visited each other anf kicked up a good time in the gay bars off soho. ENd of the Rainbow a favourite haunt of the irish trainee priests.. a couple of ‘holy deacons’ ‘lost their vocations’ there.. some even invited summer boyfriends bk to Maynooth. 2001 class piece an interesting study..

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5.17. You lived a very sheltered life in 86 class but you didnt know what was going around you.. not all staff in the wells. Students too.. one derry student partied there was ex cabin crew.micheal ledwith loved our class some more than others tho. Particularly he liked Limerick diocese..

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Maynooth has been a corrupt cesspit for decades now. How many suicide and injury claims have been made by seminarians and their families.

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We’ve always had queer bishops – like McMahon of Brenwood with his dodgy comb-over but they didn’t act out like the present lot.

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I’m not sure that the problem, as such, is celibacy.

The spirituality underpinning a celibate life was, traditionally, very strict and rigorous. It involved a wariness of the “occasions of sin” which would avoid many now seemingly unavoidable daily duties. Coupled with fasting and sheer horror of anything approaching lasciviousness or show, the constraints on a cleric’s life were much more severe and, I think, the degree of his self-control much greater.

Such a spirituality was abandoned long, long ago.

Being an RC priest is a jolly for many. A thin veneer of piety coupled with a sordid private life is, alas, all too often the reality. Better, for many of them, that they had never been born.

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Let’s hope 9.38 and 10.54 derive some therapeutic benefit from the space Pat provides them with here.

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We got rid of the Tridentine model of priesthood and seminary formation, with disastrous consequences. Places such as Maynooth, Oscott and the VEC are the nadir.

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There is no veneer of piety in several Irish Diocese, clergy are blatant as they have their bishops by the shorts and curleys literally.

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