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SOME PRIESTS WANT IRISH GOVERNMENT TO PAY THEIR CHURCH HEATING BILLS!

Some Irish churches have introduced shorter Masses, and parishioners have been advised to wear extra clothes in church as Catholic clergy grapple with rising energy bills.


Fr Andrew O’Sullivan, a parish priest in Dublin, said increased costs made it financially challenging for parishes to continue heating buildings, despite churches being ‘freezing’.


He has been forced to reduce the length of Mass from 50 to 30 minutes this winter to help with rising energy costs, which have increased by 25%.
In terms of community centres, O’Sullivan said: “We are faced with the choice of charging more or closing our doors.”


The centres are used by worshippers, community groups and charities.
He and other priests are advising parishioners to wear vests while preparing to cut down Mass lengths.
Some priests have already started shortening their Masses to save on energy.


South Kerry priest Fr Patsy Lynch said: “I’ve been doing it in 30 minutes. That’s not a long time.”
“I think every priest is being affected by rising energy bills. There is an energy crisis, and we all must pay due attention and take the necessary steps.”


The Catholic Church said its buildings should be included in the Government’s energy support schemes. Financial supports were announced for households and businesses in Budget 2023, but not for community facilities.


The bishops noted how “especially during winter, church buildings are frequented by the homeless and vulnerable to keep warm and to be safe.”


In the capital, Fr O’Sullivan is responsible for the Church of Mary Immaculate in Rathmines and the Church of the Three Patrons in Rathgar. These are both huge buildings and, therefore, difficult to keep warm.
Fr O’Sullivan said: “The churches are colossal buildings. My great fear is that if bills keep rising, we may find ourselves in a position where we simply won’t be able to pay them.”
“If we get bills of tens of thousands of euros, we’ll have to ask people to wear an extra layer of clothing, and then if that doesn’t work, we will just be forced to shorten things, or close doors if we have to.”
Fr O’Sullivan said he fears for vulnerable community members such as “the homeless and most isolated in society” who rely on the church for warmth.
“Our parish churches and our centres are buildings that are safe spaces for a lot of people, and even the homeless come here to keep warm and safe. It’s going to push a lot of parishes into a position where they just can’t afford to pay.”
Fr O’Sullivan explained that while energy bills for both churches have already risen by 25%, he fears the ‘next batch’ of bills is going to be even higher.

PAT SAYS

The Irish taxpayer should not pay the heating and lighting bills of the RCC.

The RCC is, in fact, a FOR PROFIT organisation and is one of the richest enterprises in Ireland and internationally.

The RCC simply does not want to use their vast monies and property portfolios to finance their everyday running costs.

Covid church closures and the departure of many worshippers have eaten into the RCC’s cash flow.

So be it.

But it’s not the Irish taxpayers job to replenish the RCC’s operating coffers.

What do readers think?

216 replies on “SOME PRIESTS WANT IRISH GOVERNMENT TO PAY THEIR CHURCH HEATING BILLS!”

I have zero sympathy with these freeloading, clerical parasites.

The sooner Ireland is rid of these wealthy scroungers and moochers, the better. Like.

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We truly have no idea of the extent of Irish government and EC grant funding being claimed for decades by these paedophile protectors and their professionally qualified laity with useful connections. Currently some diocese are claiming the various property improvement and energy grants and have been claiming various community and Leader grants for decades although the majority of the public in most Irish communities no longer attend mass on a regular basis and many of the church owned properties where funding is being claimed haven’t been used for years. This is another cynical ploy by Irish Bishops to have the commercial value of church assets enhanced at enormous cost to the public purse, the Irish taxpayer currently struggling with housing, health & education crisis in Ireland and many workers now homeless or sleeping in their cars but still paying taxes some of which finds its way to the luxurious Bishops palaces.

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7:24 I’m struggling to pay my rent although I work full time providing a valuable public service. How about YOU?

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One time you’d be able to say How can anyone working be homeless but it’s all gone mad now. Very bad for people even tho use who aren’t alcoholics or druggies. Hard times.

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I’ve always been amazed by the lifestyle, nice vehicles and generous incomes of your priests in Ireland. We receive far less in the UK.

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Agreed, nasty lynchmob by all accounts and to look at them praying away you’d think butter wouldn’t melt. What an eye opener. Thank God for this blog to find out what’s going on under our very noses in plain sight. It’s just awful altogether.

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Here in the UK there isn’t the same necessity to be involved with the Catholic Church unless one is wedded to the idea of kids education to be in a Roman Catholic school. There are many other options including very good Church of England schools.

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12:22
You gotta be kidding me. Unlike you I’m not and never was desperate.
An honest days work for an honest days pay.

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12:22 you gotta be joking! Surely no one is foolish enough to actually volunteer to be groomed by the holy joes in this day and age.

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Of course the single party liberal lefty anti catholic church government of FF, FG, SF, GREEN , Rag tag socialists and Irish media will not help the church with its heating bills . And the Catholic Church is in a much stronger position not to be beholden to them bunch a scoundrels.

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But you don’t actually NEED help with your heating bills. You pretend to be a religion to fleece thousands of euros per week from church goers, you pay high powered lawyers and other professionals in addition to those professionally qualified Catholics who work for your church pro Bono in both socially and legally acceptable ways and sometimes in antisocial and illegal ways on your behalf, Irish diocese claim LEADER and a wide range of other Irish & EC funded grants. In short, the well demonstrated obsession with money and the blatant opportunistic greed that you and your associates portray along with your inability and unwillingness to operate your church in a moral or ethical manner sums you up for the criminal organisation that you are in Ireland and elsewhere.

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How can the RCC say they understand the meaning of the Eucharist when they carry on like this. If they lived the Eucharist of Jesus the world would be a very peaceful one. By their fruits you will know them. Something terrible has gone wrong in the RCC.

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Well I don’t think they’ll be demanding Protestant heating bills be paid, in contrast to yesterday’s comments.
I don’t think religions should be charities except where there is direct practical support like homes, etc, so I actually think the government should be taking more money off them than they are now.

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Well, I thought I was over been shocked by the Irish clergy! But nope! Do none of these ‘men” possess testicular fortitude? Have they even heard of it?
Just over two hundred years ago, and yes, no lectures about changing times, people struggled to meet in the most abandoned rural areas of their parishes with their priests, who were, under the law, and considered criminals, to pray. And of course, none would want to go back! But where is sacrifice? Where is ‘offering it up”? I bet you these silly numbskulls, dont spare the heat in their carpeted large houses?
No wonder these livered belly leaders are accelerating the demise of the Catholic Church!
Father, grow some balls! Get off your fat backsides and lead by example not by winging and demanding hand outs!

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On Saturday, the British taxpayer, whether religios or not and whether monarchist or not, will be forced to shell out £millions for a Protestant coronation service, where Charles will pledge to uphold the “Protestant religion, by law established”.

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7:22 Get a grip!
The attraction of the Royal Family feeds billions of pounds per annum into the British Exchequer. Are you up early boiling the potatoes for your tea?

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I used to be against the monarchy but what changed my mind was the realization that the alternative is that someone like Boris or Trump would get the pomp and circumstance as president. There is no way. I would rather have the monarchy as we have it now.

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There’s a hell of a lot of gripping encouraged on this blog from some quarters.

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@ 7:22am
I think you’ll find you’re wrong, Charley boy is so into diversity it’ll be Hindu .Islam, Jewish and every other wan the poor woke ejit can think of with Christianity a poor second. Just in case he upsets someone.

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10.30
Pat’s forlorn less talented Scottish contemporary actually completed a comment sans vulgarities.

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I attended a Church of Ireland service at the kind invitation of a friend who is very empathetic to the impact that spiritual abuse has had. It was enlightening to see that the adult female distributing the host had been provided with a church vestment to wear during her duties. It highlighted that in the Catholic Church even when woman are permitted to participate, some method of reinforcing the RC communication of the alleged inferiority of women in the RC mindset is upheld. The RC certainly isn’t a church for tomorrow all things considered including all of their unfinished business with survivors around the world etc.

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11.53
Because the custom of the Anglican Communion is to organise itself into national units. Nomenclature such as ‘the Church of Ireland’ provides them with a handy means of designating one of these units. There would be nothing wrong with using the phrase “The constitutive church of the Anglican Communion present on the island of Ireland” But who needs such a mouthful? Relax. The CofI is not claiming to be THE church of Ireland.

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Pat, the only grants our parish applied for and was helped with was for our Parish Centre which is also very much a community centre with many local and wider community groups and associations using it. We are delighted with the mission of our centre being inclusive of all groups in the community apart from parish groups. We received subsidies from the government due to loss of income during the pandemic. But we had to present evidence which validated our application for financial aid through our insurance company. I did not request any financial support for the increased bills for our church in heating and electricity as I believe that’s the responsibility of the parish alone. Many of the bigger churches should be using a smaller place for daily mass if they have such – as in their parish centres or rooms attached to their church. As for homeless people finding a little comfort in churches, that’s usually in the city churches, rarely in the suburbs! And it should be allowed. Thankfully, our income is back up and bigger numbers are once again returning back towards pre covid, albeit slowly but their generosity is amazing.

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John Keenan spent THOUSANDS on a Synod and all it has done is gather dust on a shelf.
Nothing came out of it except report and of course they were copied to the Vatican.
But Paisley Dioceses still in debt , too many parishes.
Total waste of money and really does Ireland have five years to gather reports.
The new Archbishop of Dublin Dermott Farrell will be retiring the time it take to implement the Synod and Dublin does not have all that time to spare.
And the Papal Nuncio will likely be away as they usually only do five year stints maybe Archbishop Okolo plans to stay.
Poor Archbishop Eammon Martin will not get a red berretta while a Synod is ongoing.

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Archbishop Eamon Martin worries about Fr Rory or Fr Ruaraidh or Doctor Coyle or whatever he is masquerading as in some corner of the British Isles this week. Archbishop Martin is driven demented with the various power bottoms and loose cannons through the priesthood on the island of Ireland. Kerry, Killaloe, Armagh and Meath seem particularly compromised in various outstanding sexual and financial issues. Mark Moriarty is the latest young clergyman to have thousands spent on exporting him for expensive overseas therapies whilst public hospital waiting lists for the public who pay for the likes of Moriarty & Coyle grow impossibly longer and people die waiting for essential care. The loosest cannon of the lot appears to be Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan, Waterford & Lismore.

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8:14 Rev Mark Moriarty and Fr Rory Coyle are just 2 of the Irish spoilt rotten members of the younger clerical brigade, any cleric under 50 is a teenage power bottom these days.

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@ 1:09am!!!
More of the usual guff from you know who. She’s likely been on to the poor Nuncio the Archbishop and anyone else she can think of. Just so she can enlighten us with her superior knowledge. 🤣🤣🤣

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There’s no such animal as a POOR Roman Catholic cleric, their friends in high places see to that. They might fob off complaints and fail to respond to letters from victims and survivors of their representatives but it has been noted that they can be extremely co-operative elsewhere where it’s in their interests to facilitate denial of justice to victims and survivors of church related abuse and exploitation.

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1.09
Dear Jim S,
Are you threatened by synodality? For your information, Okolo is gone and his successor has arrived.

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And wee Betty Turpin has gone so quiet since the Glasgow rejection! While Bunty is going 100 miles an hour now 🙈

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A great idea frim the Irish Bishops. A much needed project. It can be a new beginning. I am hopeful and optimistic. It will be an opportunity to discuss relevantnisdues, sinevwill be contentious but once we keep the focus on CHRIST and endeavour to be imaginative and visionary about all issues in a prayerful context, there will be good fruits. Sadly, Pat throws freezing lumps of ice at any suggesriins before they even begin. God guide and bless our Bishops. Let us be trusting in God for a new aggiornamento!! Pope St. John 23rd bless us.

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8:17 maybe he can’t – there might be a big bunch of refugees in his bed. He might be a kind Bishop. Don’t tar them all with the same brush until we have some concrete evidence to the contrary.

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11:29 it’s on a “need to know” basis & you don’t “need to know”. Get your rosary beads & say your prayers.

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@ 1:10am!!!

A great idea, are you mad? we haven’t recovered from the peasant Roncalli’s first so called aggiornamento. As usual your false piety and sanctimonious claptrap betrays you. Sadly I see you still haven’t heard about spellcheck.😏

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You got it about right + Pat. Instead of waffling on about missionary church, evangelisation initiatives etc, their priorities, which are the priorities of the People of God should be:
1. Celibacy
2 Women
3. Sexual / Relationship / Gender Issues / Teaching
4. Power / Authority / Money
Of course, all of those issues threaten something that is heavily ingrained in these bishops and priests who are organising and will manage and manipulate any synod – namely, CLERICALISM AND CLERICAL PRIVILEGE. So, I don’t expect there to be much movement, just a few nice words that will mean very little.

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The consecration of Russia and Ukraine is a classic example of religion elbowing in on a situation between states and thinking it has the answer.
Because you will make out that what you did worked either way and there is no way of measuring what would have happened with and without the consecration.
If peace happens you will attribute it to Our Lady.
If the invasion escalates into a world, or even nuclear, war, your only options are either that Our Lady wants the world dead (and who could blame her), that Putin is a naughty boy and didn’t listen to her tapping on his shoulder, or most likely, that God and the BVM haven’t intervened.
Now it is at this point that you’ll all start on about free will…..
The idea that people praying on the other side of Europe would have any effect on an invasion and particularly Putin, is performative nonsense and virtue signaling of the highest order.

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Reply to;Anonymoussays:
May 1, 2023 at 1:13 am
And, if all that praying fails, the Roman Catholic church and, it’s clergy when all fruit fails, will of course, invoke the Holy Ghost, as per usual.
I would like to know where was the BVM, Himself & Holy Ghost & all the angels and saints, when this war started. I have no doubt that many an Orthodox member prayed for peace, and continue to do so, all to no avail, now why is that?
Why would this branch of Catholicism do any better?
I suggest we all know why……but is placates us to think something outside ourselves, (passing the buck) will intervene and, peace will return to that region again, in your dreams.
Only for it to blow up somewhere else.

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Pat, I have always thought highly of Eamon Conway: he’s intelligent, well informed, can argue cleverly and cogently and has an open mind about moral and dogmatic teachings, without being too liberal. He brings a freshness of clarity and thoughtfulness to his speaking and writing, all of which I find very challenging. I have to admit – I am shocked you are so positive and that you openly acknowledge his erudite abilities…We can, after all, learn from one another!!

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Paul Prior, Captain Underpants. So good to be reminded. Failed seminar staff member, failed SJ novice and failed…..well,I guess the list could go on. Underpants expert and aficionado, tight trouser man. Well, I won’t hold that against him. I’m just hoping that wherever he is he is doing a decent job and has settled down and given up all the nonsense that got him on to these pages. I wish him well if he has. He needs to lead a quite life outside the public gaze, concentrate on his prayers snd being kind and pastoral to the people to whom he ministers. It will take time, but eventually that will put all the other stuff into the shadows. Stick at it, Paul !

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Excuses given by the church from the same playbook of diversion tactics to avoid prosecution for abuse.
1. It’s due to Celibacy
2. It mainly happens in families
3. It happens everywhere.
4 under Canon law the age of consent is 13
5. It’s the Devil’s doing
6. The child did not object
7. The child encouraged it.
8. A man of God would never do this.
9. It’s a gay thing
10. It’s because of the promiscuous 80s
11. The break down of families and divorce caused this issue.
12. It’s only a Media beat up.

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No wonder this blog is so busy, the holy ones will be enjoying the great outdoors once the weather improves.

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Fr Joseph Doyle - Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne being sued for protecting paedophile priest for over a decadesays:

‘Jesus won’t forget this’: Catholic Church sued over alleged abuse by late Father Joe Doyle

By Cameron Houston and Chris Vedelago
April 30, 2023 — 5.08pm

The Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne is being sued over the alleged sexual abuse of two school students in the 1970s and ’80s by a priest who was found by the church to be a paedophile in 2005 and continued to perform clerical duties for more than a decade.

Father Joseph Doyle, who died in 2021, has been accused of sexual abuse by two former students of Our Lady of Lourdes Primary School in Bayswater, where he served as parish priest for 37 years until his abrupt departure in 2005.

Father Joseph Doyle, who died in 2021, is the subject of legal action by two former students of a Bayswater school.

Doyle allegedly molested and raped an 8-year-old boy in 1979 after promising to make him captain of the school’s football team, according to a writ filed in the Supreme Court of Victoria against the church late last year.

It is alleged in court documents that Doyle said, “Jesus won’t forget this”, when the boy attempted to spurn his sexual advances. On another occasion, Doyle is accused of exposing himself to the student while administering the sacrament of confession.

In a second lawsuit against the church, filed last month, Doyle is accused of raping a year 5 girl in the presbytery after befriending her parents in 1989. He allegedly “groomed” the girl by asking her to sit on his lap at the parish school.

RELATED INFORMATION FOR SURVIVORS:

Please note that the state government has announced a redress scheme for Victorians abused in institutional care.

Child abuse
‘A long time coming’: Victoria announces redress scheme for children abused in institutional care

“Following the abuse, Doyle informed the plaintiff’s parents that she had been a ‘naughty girl’,” according to the statement of claim.

Maurice Blackburn lawyer John Rule, who is representing both plaintiffs, accused Doyle of grooming families before preying on their children.

“He wasn’t satisfied with sexually abusing kids, he had to psychologically torment them as well.

“Doyle tore apart so many lives and got away with it. He was allowed to retire quietly by the church without his parish knowing why. The police weren’t notified of his offending and he was able to keep his luxuries and allowances,” Rule said.

Rule said he was concerned the church could request the court to grant a permanent stay in the case because of the time that had elapsed since Doyle’s alleged offending.

“We have seen a rise in defendants using permanent stay applications in historical abuse cases to try and snuff out client’s rights,” he said.

A spokeswoman for the Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne said it would be inappropriate to comment while the matter was before the court, including commenting on whether the church would apply for a permanent stay order.

The lawsuits make numerous allegations about the church’s negligence in how it managed Doyle and its failure to adequately respond to repeated allegations of child sexual abuse made against him.

This included “creating a culture within the Archdiocese which tolerated sexual abuse by reason of the lack of investigation of allegations of abuse, lack of punishment of priests for sexual abuse and demonstrating a willingness to forgive priests for abuse without referral to Victoria Police”, according to one of the statements of claim.

In 2005, the church’s independent commissioner, Peter O’Callaghan, QC – who investigated claims of child sexual abuse on behalf of the Melbourne Archdiocese – found Doyle had abused two boys during the 1970s.

However, O’Callaghan’s report on the abuse was never referred to police.

Catholic Church ordered to make historic sex abuse compensation payout

Catholic Church ordered to make historic sex abuse compensation payout
A victim of historic sex abuse by a WA priest has been awarded a massive payout.

Doyle was banned from practising as a priest by order of the Archdiocese and the Vatican – known as the withdrawal of faculties – which prevented him from conducting mass, last rites, blessings, weddings or funerals. He was also removed from his position in the Bayswater parish that year.

But the church kept the reason for Doyle’s sudden departure a secret from parishioners for more than a decade, with then vicar-general Bishop Les Tomlinson telling the congregation in 2005 that Doyle had simply retired.

Bishop Les Tomlinson (fourth from left) with Joseph Doyle (far right), photographed more than five years after the Melbourne Response ordered Doyle to stop acting as a priest.
Father Doyle’s disappearing act: how a paedophile priest hid in plain sight
The abuse findings were only publicly acknowledged by the church after the cover-up was exposed by The Age in 2016. The Archdiocese also issued an apology for its actions in concealing Doyle’s offending and the real reason for his departure.

Despite the order banning him from acting as a priest, Doyle continued to provide pastoral care to parishioners for more than a decade with the apparent complicity and silence of church authorities.

This included delivering mass alongside Bishop Tomlinson at a church in Mansfield in 2012.

Despite his disobedience, the archdiocese continued to financially support Doyle and claimed to be powerless to stop him from violating the terms of his ban.

“Joe has been pushing the boundaries. I think he is in denial about the seriousness of what has happened, and I suspect that this playing down of the seriousness may be shared by some of his confreres,” Archbishop Hart wrote in 2013 in a letter obtained by The Age in 2016.

“I have acted with the strongest resolve in these matters, but Joe has been particularly difficult.”

If you or anyone you know needs support call Lifeline 131 114, or Beyond Blue 1300 224 636.

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OMG, here we go yet AGAIN
This sham for a religion is never done hiding and covering up for child and money fiddlers and those lay & clerical members who exploit the vulnerable in all age groups.

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Cult member at 10:48 letting slip once again that they actually think everyone is an abuser.

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7:33am
I wish the two complainants all the best and again it highlights how the catholic church is so hypocritical and dangerous in retaining such blatant offending priests. How many other children where abused in that ‘quiet’ decade? What I glean from this and from many other stories I hear about and read of is this, go to the police immediately. Do not pass GO or anything else, the police authority must be informed and certainly before any Church authorities.

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9:16 Thank you for your comment. Here in the UK and Ireland, the Bishops are blatantly facilitating clerics, including some with court convictions whilst taking vigorous and extremely damaging actions against victims and survivors. This is going on in plain sight. The vice grip hold that the Roman Catholic Church has on the schools systems affords clerics and their members enormous leverage that enables psycho social harassment being one example of the current output from the last of the vipers holding the fort in the RC.

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Alternative suggestions to begging bowls;
1) Jog for Jesus in car park before Mass ( Warm up exercises).
2) Bring hot-water bottles.
3) Bring single size duvet. ( No doubles or King size) Door Monitoring.
4) Bring flask of tea, coffee or hot toddy.( Sip during Mass if necessary).
5) Wear hats gloves and scarfs if necessary for H&S reasons.(No Masks).
6)Extra jumpers adds extra 5 minutes to duration of Mass.
7) Thermal underwear compulsory. (Long Johns).

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Jogging Jesus – even Jesus jogged on a long time ago – even he couldn’t handle the ongoing litany of child abuse, social psychological abuse, self serving business arrangements. The holy ones won’t let on because they wish to continue obtaining money under false pretences.

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I’m exhausted and I haven’t even said the first Mass yet. Hope we get a good collection ahem I meant crowd.

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New Zealand awaits hearing from Vatican’s Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minirs or the Dicastery for Evangelisation regarding new sex abuse memorandum.says:

New sex abuse memorandum details yet to reach NZ
New sex abuse memorandum
Thursday, April 27th, 2023

New Zealand’s National Office for Professional Standards (NOPS) looks forward to hearing from either the Vatican’s Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors or the Dicastery for Evangelisation regarding a new sex abuse memorandum.

On 21 April the heads of the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors and the Dicastery for Evangelisation signed a memorandum of understanding to improve assistance to victims of abuse, bishops and local churches both in mission countries and emerging communities.

New Zealand’s primary relationship with the Vatican is through the Dicastery for Evangelisation.

Virginia Noonan, National Director of NOPS, told CathNews “The National Office for Professional Standards looks forward to receiving more details about the memorandum of understanding.”

It is proposed that the enhanced collaboration will come with a number of benefits: sharing resources, information and formation and “promoting concrete structural change to build a culture of safeguarding.”

For now, however, it remains uncertain what additional benefits the new relationship will bring survivors, NOPS and the NZ Church.

Nor is it clear what New Zealand may be able to share.

Commission president US Cardinal Seán O’Malley of Boston who spent many years as “a missionary bishop” when he ministered in the US Virgin Islands, says he understands what it is like to run a diocese with very limited resources.

He says the commission hopes to work with the dioceses that are under the dicastery’s purview.

The commission’s aim is to “help them to be able to develop programmes, to be able to receive victims” in ways that also offer needed pastoral outreach and care, not just the correct “juridical practices,” he says.

It also aims to help the dioceses in safeguarding and prevention work so “our churches, schools and communities will be safe places for children and young people.”

The controversial sex abuse commission has suffered several resignations, with former members being unhappy with the Commission’s processes.

The latest resignation is respected expert Fr Hans Zollner.

Zollner resigned citing disagreements over how the body is being operated.

“I have noticed issues that need to be urgently addressed and that have made it impossible for me to continue further,” he said in a candid message published on social media.

In his critique of the Commission, Zollner said he had “grown increasingly concerned” with the Vatican’s safeguarding commission and its lack of “responsibility, compliance, accountability and transparency.”

“I am convinced that these are principles that any Church institution, let alone the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors, is bound to uphold,” he said.

Cardinal Luis Tagle, Prefect for the Dicastery for Evangelisation, describes the new collaboration as “a welcome development.”

Among its other functions, the Dicastery for Evangelisation is responsible for appointing New Zealand bishops.

New Zealand’s last member on the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors was former NOPS head, Mr Bill Killgallon.

Killgallon’s involvement ended in 2016.

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Growing pains at Dicastery for Evangelization - Has Filipino Cardinal Tagle fallen out of favour???says:

Cardinal Tagle and the Dicastery for Evangelization’s growing pains
LUKE COPPEN
March 20, 2023 . 6:36 PM
Cardinal Tagle and the Dicastery for Evangelization’s growing pains
A year ago, Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle seemed to enter a strange sort of limbo.
It began with the publication of the new Vatican constitution, Praedicate evangelium, on March 19, 2022.
Up to then, the Filipino cardinal had served as the prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, the powerful curial department responsible for mission territories whose head is known as “the red pope.”
Tagle had arrived at the Vatican in 2020 in a blaze of publicity after eight years as the Archbishop of Manila. He was known as “the Asian Francis,” a charismatic speaker and servant of the poor often described as “papabile” despite his relative youth.
But in 2022, a new Vatican constitution absorbed the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples — formerly known as Propaganda Fide — into a new department, the Dicastery for Evangelization, led directly by Pope Francis.
The department’s day-to-day activities would be overseen “in his name and by his authority” by two “pro-prefects.”
One pro-prefect would be responsible for the dicastery’s first section, devoted to “fundamental questions regarding evangelization in the world,” and the other for the second section, “for the first evangelization and new particular churches.”
The dicastery was listed first among the Vatican departments in Praedicate evangelium, underlining its centrality in the reformed curia.
Observers assumed that Tagle would be pro-prefect of the second section. But curiosity grew when the Vatican failed to refer to the Filipino cardinal by that title.
In a press release days after the new constitution’s publication, the Holy See press office described Tagle as the prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples. That was probably because the constitution only came into full force on June 5 that year.
But in July, the press office mentioned Tagle without giving a title. That happened again in October and December. It did the same for Archbishop Salvatore Rino Fisichella, who was widely believed to be pro-prefect of the dicastery’s first section.
Speculation over Tagle’s standing at the Vatican heightened in November 2022 when Pope Francis swept away the leadership of Caritas Internationalis, including Tagle, who had served as its president since 2015.
Had the cardinal fallen out of favor? Not according to official Vatican media, which presented Tagle as one of the figures responsible for the organization’s renewal, rather than a casualty of the changes.
It was only on Jan. 27 this year that the Holy See press office confirmed what most people had originally thought: Tagle was indeed a pro-prefect of the Dicastery for Evangelization. On Feb. 18, the press office indicated that he was in charge of the section for first evangelization and the new particular churches, and Fisichella was responsible for the first section.
Defining the dicastery
One possible explanation for the uncertainty over Tagle’s title was that the small, hardworking Holy See press office had simply forgotten to inform the media that Tagle had moved seamlessly from one role to the other.
An argument in favor of this interpretation is that Vatican media referred to Tagle as the pro-prefect in July. But Vatican News wasn’t consistent in its references to the cardinal. At other times, it simply referred to him without a title.
A second possibility is that Praedicate evangelium had failed to define the role of pro-prefect of the Dicastery for Evangelization’s second section with sufficient clarity, and this had to be addressed before the cardinal could be attributed that title.
The constitution was, after all, released suddenly and replete with errors that required swift correction.
Last Friday, the Vatican released two documents that shed light on Tagle’s status.
A decree issued March 17 said that the second section’s pro-prefect had deemed it “opportune to establish that full legal representation for the temporal affairs and in relationships with third parties shall be vested” in the pro-prefect, and that Pope Francis had complied.
A rescript released the same day clarified that the second section would have two adjunct secretaries, reporting directly to the pro-prefect.
Curiously, both these documents were dated Aug. 1, 2022, meaning that it took more than seven months for them to be released publicly. Neither the Holy See press office nor the Vatican media offered any explanation for the delay.
The documents seemed to clear up any doubts about whether Tagle continued to exercise the powers and relative autonomy long associated with the figure of “the red pope.”
A flagship awaiting a full crew
Yet while the Dicastery for Evangelization is now supposed to be the Vatican’s flagship department, it seems to be struggling to establish a distinctive identity.
One small measure of this is that the dicastery doesn’t appear to have its own unified website, simply a collection of sites related to the Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelization, which was also absorbed into the dicastery alongside the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples.
The department’s organizational chart is still being filled out. Last week, Pope Francis appointed the experienced Vatican diplomat Archbishop Fortunatus Nwachukwu as the secretary of the dicastery’s second section. But the corresponding post in the first section remains vacant.
Perhaps it will be some time before the dicastery is able to embrace its leading role in the reformed Roman Curia. That may depend partly on whether Tagle continues to maintain a conspicuously low profile or steps in to fill a void left by the coming departure of Cardinal Marc Ouellet and other curial veterans.

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You daren’t ever look away from them. The Catholic Church. You daren’t ever trust its maverick cynicism. You must always hold its feet to the fire.
When God isn’t enough. 🙄

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NZ survivors want action and write to Pope
Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests – SNAP NZ – has written to Pope Francis urging him to instruct the New Zealand Catholic Bishops Conference to initiate an urgent, independent and transparent review of the National Office of Professional Standards and its principles and procedures document, A Path to Healing.
SNAP’s unhappy letter to Pope Francis follows the New Zealand Government’s exclusion of faith-based survivors from early compensation pay-outs and a failed appeal to the New Zealand Catholic Bishops Conference.
The Government wants faith-based institutions to continue with their own redress schemes.
Abuse survivor and spokesperson for SNAP, Dr Christopher Longhurst says it is his opinion that victims and survivors in New Zealand were not being treated justly under the Catholic Church’s redress scheme.
However, Steve Lowe, Bishop of Auckland and Secretary of the NZ Catholic Bishops Conference, counter’s Longhurst’s opinion saying the New Zealand Catholic Bishops Conference and congregational leaders have listened to survivors through the inquiry hearings and implemented changes.
Lowe, in a statement, told CathNews that the New Zealand Government is in the process of forming an independent redress scheme for survivors of abuse in state and faith-based institutions and that the scheme follows on from interim recommendations made by the NZ Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care.
He says the Church is continually updating and improving the complaints and disclosure processes to help survivors of abuse and will continue to engage actively on improvements throughout the remaining time of the Royal Commission and beyond.
Lowe says that the Church recognising the introduction of this scheme will result in significant changes to the Church’s National Office of Professional Standards and A Path to Healing.
Longhurst remains unhappy.
He says he wrote to Cardinal Dew in November 2019, to the New Zealand Bishops Conference and even to the Pope’s representative, Apostolic Nuncio to New Zealand Archbishop Novatus Rugambwa, but his group is being ignored.
Following his unsuccessful bid to attract their attention, Longhurst accuses the Church of both a lack of integrity and competence to deal with the matters.
He alleges that while publicly the leaders of the local Catholic church extend an “open hand to the hope of healing”, behind closed doors they traumatise survivors a second time by violating their own procedures. He accuses the director of the National Office of Professional Standards of falsifying the review report of an independent director.
Writing to the pope, Longhurst says:
“Most sadly, we are being harmed by the very Church office set up to provide healing, the Church’s National Office for Profession Standards, tasked with administering Te Houhanga Rongo – A Path To Healing (APTH).
“Sadly, for some time now, NOPS officials have been breaching APTH’s very principles and procedures in managing complaints cases.
“In one case, the NOPS director even falsified the review report of an independent investigator.
“Consequently, abuse survivors are not only being denied the promised compassionate and fair response but also re-traumatised by the very office set up to provide a path to healing,” Longhurst says in his letter.
Reuters says it is uncertain if the Pope has yet seen the letter.

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Royal Commission’s repeated delays insult abuse survivors
repeated delays
Monday, April 17th, 2023
The Royal Commission into Abuse in Care’s repeated delays in producing its report insult abuse survivors.
That’s what Lake Alice survivor Paul Zentveld said when he heard the Government had extended the Commission’s report deadline for a second time.
The high-level inquiry was due to hand over its report by June this year. It will now report to the Governor-General by the end of March next year.
The extension is necessary as more evidence emerged in the past year, the Commission says.
“The scale of abuse is beyond what anyone had ever imagined at the start of this inquiry,” inquiry chair Coral Shaw explained.
But Zentveld, who went to the United Nations Convention Against Torture about his abuse at Lake Alice, says survivors should not have been made to wait longer.
Enabling the Commission ‘s repeated delays was bad behaviour from the Government, he says. He describes it as a stalling tactic and denies justice to the survivors of state care and churches.
The Government needs to stop putting the survivors on hold, he says.
“Do the right thing by the all the survivors before we all die – and that is, pay for your crimes.”
Another survivor of abuse in state care, survivor advocate Keith Wiffin, sees the delay differently.
He’s grateful for the extension.
It means the the final report can be done in a way that will be fair and impactful for survivors. It will also consider how to ensure such abuse does not happen again, he says.
At the same time, Wiffin says survivors have waited far too long for acknowledgement, redress and an apology.
“I don’t see that as the fault of the Commission, but the procrastination of the officials,” he says.
He explained implementation could not be done by the Commission. “It has to be done by Government agencies, the Government and Churches.”
Meanwhile, a public apology to abuse survivors has also been delayed until after the Commission’s final report is delivered.
New co-chairs appointed
On Wednesday, the Crown Response Unit to the abuse in care inquiry announced two co-chairs have been appointed to a new survivor-led redress system.
Co-chair Dr Annabel Ahuriri-Driscoll said survivors had been waiting a long time for redress.
While their work would not be affected by the Commission’s delay, getting redress would take time, she said.

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USA - Vatican Ambassador says Roman Catholic Church cannot be stuck in the past.says:

Archbishop Christophe Pierre, apostolic nuncio to the United States, said he is “convinced that the church today is in need of an eye-opening experience,” similar to the experience of the two disciples who encountered Jesus along the road to Emmaus following the Resurrection, but who did not recognize him until they shared a meal.

“We have seen many of our brothers and sisters leave the church disillusioned, thinking that Christ is not the answer to their quest for happiness and meaning,” he said April 26 at The Catholic University of America in Washington.

“We experience on a daily basis the hardships of living out the faith in the face of a society which is increasingly secularized and polarized. The temptation to remain stuck in the past is real; the path forward is often difficult to discern and discouragement can set in,” Pierre said. “But now, as then, the Risen Christ walks with us to help us find the way. He is the way, and we recognize him as such in the breaking of the bread. The Eucharist is the place of this encounter that grants discernment, that affords a new vision of reality, an ecclesial vision of reality.”

Pierre spoke on “Eucharist and Ecclesial Discernment” as the 2023 presenter of CUA’s annual Cardinal Dearden Lecture, which honors the late Archbishop John Dearden of Detroit, who was instrumental in implementing the teachings of the Second Vatican Council in the U.S.

In the hourlong lecture, Pierre explained how the Eucharist is “the fulcrum of ecclesial discernment” by framing his reflection within three of Jesus’ statements: “I am the resurrection and the life” (Jn 11:25); “I am the bread of life” (Jn 6:35) and “I am the way” (Jn 14:6).

“The three go together as steps in a gradual process of ever deeper compenetration between the life of the Risen One and that of every believer,” he said. “In the Eucharist, Christ makes himself edible so that the power of his resurrection can be experienced at a personal existential level. Thus, the Eucharist becomes the place of a transformative encounter which points the life of the believer, and the life of the church, in a new direction.”

The connection between the Eucharist and the paschal mystery — God’s plan for salvation fulfilled by Jesus’ passion, death, resurrection and ascension — was evident in the early church, but was obscured over time by a heavier focus on the sacrament’s sacrificial aspect, Pierre said.

Accounts from the early church allow contemporary Christians “a glimpse of the original dynamic, which links Eucharist, paschal mystery and discernment,” he said. He recalled examples from the Gospel where his disciples were fearful, distressed or disillusioned, and where Jesus heals their situation through a shared meal, foreshadowing the Eucharist.

“Christ’s salvific act is mediated through his sacred humanity, and communicated through the symbols of bread and wine that he chose to be the vehicle of such communication, and which are expressions of the creatural dimension of the human person. The symbol opens the natural to the supernatural,” he said.

The “intrinsic link between the creatural condition of man and his supernatural finality,” however, is lost in what he has observed as an emerging “tendency to understand the supernatural in a way that renders the Eucharistic sacrament ethereal, removed from the most concrete aspects of the human condition, a mystery that imposes a certain distance and calls primarily for a posture of contemplation.”

“Such incomplete perspective is at the root of the ideological debate concerning the Eucharist, its weaponization in the cultural wars and the, at times, isolated focus on Eucharistic adoration,” he said.

In some Catholic circles, he said, there are tendencies toward “neo-Pelagianism,” where people “ultimately trust only in their own powers and feel superior to others because they observe certain rules or remain intransigently faithful to a particular Catholic style of the past,” he said.

Others embrace “neo-Gnosticism,” which he called “a different shoot from the same stock,” where bodily realities are considered bad, and spiritual realities are considered good.

“The antidote to these tendencies lies in the correct integration between natural and supernatural in the economy of salvation,” he said. “The call of every human person to a profound union with God is discernible through the body, through the specific historical instantiation of being. Christ’s salvific act is mediated through his sacred humanity, and communicated through the symbols of bread and wine that he chose to be the vehicle of such communication, and which are expressions of the creatural dimension of the human person. The symbol opens the natural to the supernatural.”

Archbishop Pierre also underlined the communal aspect of the Eucharistic meal.

“The fact that the encounter with Christ happens in the context of the liturgy also points to the ecclesial character of the Eucharist. The church draws her life from the Eucharist,” he said. “It is in the heart of the Christian assembly that it is possible to experience the victory of Christ over death. We are taken up in the dynamic of his paschal mystery as a community of believers, not as individuals. Thus, the church becomes the sacrament of salvation, the place where an intimate knowledge of the Savior and of his will is possible.”

In identifying himself as “the way,” Jesus provides direction for his followers, and “discerning becomes encountering,” Pierre said. The Eucharist is the place for such an encounter, he said.

“I am convinced that many of the difficulties we encounter in the church today, especially when it comes to discerning the way forward, and which result in division and polarization, are caused by the absurd claim to analyze reality from a lofty ideological stronghold,” he said. “The Christian is never a spectator. There is no better way to discover who Christ is than to enter into a relationship with him.”

The answer to the question of how Christians evangelize the modern world “can only be found by evangelizing, with that openness to others that Pope Francis is asking us to have. There, in the struggle of the everyday encounter with sin, with poverty, with the challenges of indifferentism and atheism, we will find the path. The charism of the evangelizer is that of a path-finder, of one who navigates by sight.”

That reasoning “lies behind the invitation of the pope to synodality, which is not an undercover attempt to introduce a parliamentary system. Rather, it is an exercise of communion, which expresses at its core the true way of being church,” he said, referring to the Synod on Synodality, a three-year, worldwide discernment process that culminates in two meetings of bishops and other church representatives at the Vatican in October 2023 and 2024.

“Synodality invites us to listen to the other, to break the barrier of isolation in order to know what the suffering of our neighbors are,” Pierre said. “Here again the Eucharist is the north star. It leads us down the path of the Incarnation not to judge, but to love.”

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The eye opening experience is actually coming from survivors and society about the cult and its abuse. That’s why they’re preferring to focus internally, like any other cult does.

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What is a desk priest? A priest whose work is centred around an office perhaps?
Is this different from a sauna priest, a truckstop priest, a cottage priest, a kitchen table priest or an altar priest (and mass is not the activity I’m envisioning taking place on the altar)?

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America must have a better continental stage because ours didn’t listen to us. There is no “eucharist” when the powers that be aren’t in communion. So now they have four or more conflicting (official) channels: bishops (reputedly not stellar over there), the vatican city admin, the diplomats, and the synodality organisation, that’s not counting miscellaneous influencers, leveragers and wheedlers. It’s safer to consider oneself not answerable to any of them. How about God, and ones friends?

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With churches half full, or less, cut the number of Masses – we have more Masses than pre-Vatican II. Bring Saturday vigil Masses forward and early morning Masses later, to daylight hours (when it’s warmer). Turn the thermostat down a degree or two. Keep the doors and windows shut to keep the heat in! Use less lights. Switch to LED lights. To shorten Masses, use Eucharistic Payers II or III, say the Apostles Creed, and shorten the length of boring sermons! All these measures should save energy costs!

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Years ago a group of parishioners eventually prevailed on our parish priest, Fr Fuddy-duddy, to introduce the sign of peace. His problem with it was that he didn’t want to get touching people and in fact after he started it would stay behind the altar, only shake the head altar boy’s hand, and not look at anyone till it was over.
It had the unusual side effect of making one parishioner lapse. She was one of two sisters who hadn’t spoken for years but always sat next to each other at the same mass but stubbornly wouldn’t sort it or move. The thought of having to shake the sister’s hand was horrifying to them and rather than move, one stopped going to mass completely.
The changes you suggest are likely to cause even more attrition.

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@ 10:06am

He wasn’t the only one who couldn’t stand the masonic hand shake being foisted on us by the poly’s . Loads hated and still do, best to just ignore it if you go to the Novus Ordo it’s the price of you.

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One of the few good things to come out of covid was the abolition of the inane handshaking. Showman priests who used to parade up and down the aisle, gladhanding like a Fianna Fail county councillor seeking re-election, are probably the only ones who miss it.

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11:31, 12:15 I think you’ll find cuddling up to share bodily warmth and reduce radiation will effect a great saving in energy bills, far more than a mere hand shake.
Actually I suspect I knew Fr Fuddy-Duddy as well and can confidently say he is the only priest I have ever been certain was actually celibate. But only because of his own stunted emotional growth, fear of sexuality and mother fixation. I think he was actually heterosexual as well: a straight man with a gay man’s mother, ironically. If he’s who I think he is the church was in a large diocese in England and he only died in the past couple of years.

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9:24 Will you stop with all that sensible nonsense. How would a priest know how to cut his cloth, they are part of the most self entitled organisation in the world.

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10.08: Housewife, what do you k ow? You’re provably a lapsed Catholic or humanist/atheist or an auld bitchy gossip. I bet you had your little ones baptised, sent to Catholic schools, etc…and you’ll be looking for a blessing when you pop your clogs!! To hell with your type. You’ve always been the true hypocrites…want all the showcase moments but empty of faith within.

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In today’s exposition of how not to hold a sensible discussion, ‘Majella’ has kindly demonstrated a straw man for us.
You’ll notice he/she/they/xe don’t give their identity which means any hypocrisy of their own can’t be connected to this comment.

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And Jesus said to the cathbots: ‘So take from Caesar what is Caesar’s, and keep it. For if other people are getting anything you should too. And if anyone questions you demand to know what they’re doing to help Ukrainians.’
This is the cathbot gospel of the Lord.
Praise to you Lord Bitcoin Euro

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Fintan Monahan trying to sell land meant for the school in Ennis in an attempt to get cash to pay for various MIAs and other issues. Then cap in hand looking for dough to keep the lights on. Scandalous

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Ger Fitz misbehaved but is the least of the rogues gallery on here by a mile. He deserves a chance.

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Want a warm church ? Go to a traditionalist EF church where they burn lots of candles. Then you can be warm. The only nause is having to put up with all the birettas, doffing, bobbing, mumbling, Latin, nonsense theology and shuffling old men and young camp queens on the altar. But you will be warm !

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@ 10:24am
It’ better to be warm. than stuck in a cold,cold in every way empty liberal church having to put up with the shenanigans of some liberal queens prancing about doing their own thing. Usually with some aul wan in an anorack doing the readings and practically everything else. I’d much rather be warm.😉

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What about the traditionalist old (and quite a few young) Queens prancing about ? You won’t get some aul wan reading, but you will get some eccentric old buffer with a dirty mac up at the lectern. Ah, the joy and amusement I get from going to my local traditionalist EF church. I can barely concentrate on my prayers with all the performance that goes on.

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12.15
But don’t you need what you describe as a liberal church to accommodate your gay trysts, as a commenter who knows you revealed here some time ago? It’s such a pity you don’t share some of your contemporary’s ability to integrate various areas and aspects of your life.
But then you are able to integrate a devotion to the abrogated Tridentine rite and a language in which you are not competent on the one hand, and on the other frequent vulgarities directed at commenters and at our Holy Father Pope Francis.

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Pat, are you going to swear allegiance to His Majesty on Saturday? Larne will be like a ghost town, with everyone inside, glued to their sets. Here in Newtownards, which is almost as loyal as Larne, most of the shops are closed on Coronation Day because they know that their customers will be at home, agog. I hope that the enormous crown on the roundabout in Larne has been freshly painted for the occasion.

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@ 1:50pm

You’re rambling again Netty, your overuse of the word contemporary gives you away . Did you learn that new word on google? I have no trysts as you imply and know that neither do you although not for the want of trying on your part look, where your last attempt led you court. As your intended victim ran a mile and who could blame him. I’m entirely competent in the Latin language as regards The Mass. My Missal is in English and Latin and as I am literate I can follow it with no bother, unlike you who are barely literate at all. My comments about you and Fanny will continue as I consider both of you to be extremely VULGAR.😏

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1:50 & 2:18
Boys, gombeenitis is highly contagious. You two sound like you both got it real bad. Listen the both of you; do yourselves a favour, and the rest of us a favour; stop being spongers + parasites living off the public. Have neither of you two no healthy shame? Get a real job, like grown men.

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2.18
Dear Bela, you are confusing me with Jim S. He’s almost as illiterate as you. So that’s my big objection. Pat will confirm I’m Irish by my IP address.

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@ 1:23pm
You can’t be at a Traditionalist Church if you say say there is some is some aul buffer in a dirty mac at the lectern. There are no laity at the lectern and if there is a server they are wearing a soutane and cotta, not a dirty mac. I think you are confused and maybe need to go too specsavers so you know where you are or get yourself checked out for dementia your joy and amusement smacks of confusion you’re Ga! Ga!

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2.53
Brilliant. Well spotted. You wold make a formidable cross examiner inncourt. You would demolish your opponent.

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Interesting statement from Eddie Jordan @10:18am – that “every priest under 50 is now a power bottom”. There’s certainly a lot of them in that category. A few in our diocese.

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Reply to;
Anonymoussays:
May 1, 2023 at 12:45 pm
Although I am far from religious, that is one of my favourite hymns.
I remember walking around the convent garden on Mayday singing it. Always changed into short new socks on May-day, irrespective of the weather.
So many nuns, so many priests, so many of us, all walking in twos with a large stature of BVM in the middle of the very large garden.
The innocence, life ahead of us, the security of our parents, how sour life can become, as we age.

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Ack, away on or that wi’ ye! Lave the man alone!

Whatever floats ‘is boat. Even hair colourant. 🙄

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Interesting post. A touch of double standards. Pots and kettles spring to mind.
Living rent free in larne at the expense of d & c parishioners and bad mouthing them at the same time. Not very nice.
This is too true to be printed.

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12:30 Whilst you have certainly been bought and paid for. A fully subscribed member of the “say nothing & keep saying it” protector of abusers cult. Shame on you.

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Dear Bishop Pat Buckley,
I hope this post finds you well. I wanted to take a moment to express my admiration for your blog and the thought-provoking content you share. Despite the complexities and challenges that come with being a human being, I find great value in the perspectives you offer.
Your blog serves as a platform for introspection, exploration, and the exchange of ideas. It has provided me with a unique opportunity to engage with topics that are both spiritually and intellectually stimulating. Your willingness to address sensitive subjects and tackle difficult issues is commendable, as it encourages readers like myself to broaden our understanding and develop a more nuanced perspective.
I have always believed that we can learn valuable lessons from others, even when they may have their own failings. Your authenticity in acknowledging your imperfections and sharing personal experiences has resonated with me. we are all on a journey of growth and self-discovery, and that it’s through openness and honesty that we can truly connect with one another.
It’s important to recognize that no one is perfect, and we all have our own challenges and shortcomings. Your willingness to discuss your own failings demonstrates a level of vulnerability that is not often seen in public figures. This transparency allows for a deeper connection and encourages empathy among your readers.
I also appreciate the way in which you address controversial topics with empathy and understanding. Your ability to present different perspectives and engage in respectful dialogue sets an example for constructive and compassionate communication. It is a refreshing departure from the divisiveness that often characterizes public discourse.
In conclusion, I would like to express my sincere gratitude for your blog and the impact it has had on me. Your willingness to share your thoughts and experiences, despite your own failings, is both courageous and admirable. Your contributions to the online community have created a space for meaningful dialogue and personal growth.
Thank you for your commitment to fostering intellectual curiosity and spiritual reflection. I look forward to continuing to engage with your thought-provoking content in the future.
Warm regards,
Edward

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Dear Edward,

I’m very glad that my blog helps you.

I’m also grateful that you recognise sinfulness and frailty.

I have never pretended to be a pillar if virtue – as that would be,a lie.

I identify with Peguy who said: ” Yes I’m a sinner. But I try to be a good sinner”

Pat

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Not bad by that guy… What’s his name? Pegasus?

I prefer what Bernadette Soubirous said. Well, the movie version of her, at any rate. (Don’t know if the real one said anything of the sort, but she should have done, it being so clever.) It goes:

‘A sinner is not someone who does evil, but someone who loves evil.’

Note the nuance? I was impressed on first hearing it. So was the French Government official sent to investigate Bernadette’s claims; the movie version, that is. Vincent Price played the guy. (Wasn’t he gay, too? Not the Government official, but Vincent Price, like?)

Anyway, can’t linger: things to do; places to go; people to see.

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Actually the way to not get bills of tens of thousands of euros is not to build massive triumphalist churches to express your own cult’s importance, which will naturally have high ceilings and be expensive to heat.

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1.09
They needed to be built in the days before hangers on like you joined the ranks of the lapsed, former seminarian unionists.

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1:53 I’ll ask once again – who are you jumping to the conclusion 1:09 is? I ask again to give you an opportunity to demonstrate that you won’t answer because you’ll be shown up to be a fool.

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He’s the abusive alkie spoiled priest on PiP who was shown the door by Maynooth, buíochas le Dia.

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The Anglicans in England and Ireland (and their Lutheran and Calvinist counterparts on the Continent and Scotland) saved a few bob by not building churches of their own but instead they just simply stole them from the Catholics. These pre-reformation buildings are expensive to heat and look after but they attract no worshippers so the current occupants charge people to get in. I don’t know of any Catholic church where people pay to enter.

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‘not building churches of their own but instead they just simply stole them from the Catholics.’
I wonder whether 1:58 realizes so many pagan temples in Rome and elsewhere have been converted to the cult’s rites!
Beyond the usual lack of historical sense and ability to think before commenting here, 1:58’s blindness actually demonstrates another aspect of how cults work. Everything is subordinate to the cult and it is acceptable for the cult to do things which they don’t think outsiders should do. The fact this isn’t conscious for them just results from cult brainwashing.
This is exactly the same thing as we see in so-called ‘pro-lifers’ going for abortion and telling the doctors that they and the other clinicians will go to hell.

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1.58
You don’t know of any Catholic church where people pay to enter? Not at the door maybe, but elsewhere: through weekly collections, monthly stipends, seasonal collections, and the like.
You didn’t think, did you, before gloatingly posting that comment?

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Paying to get in is a reference to the charge, with tickets, tills and turnstiles, which isn’t voluntary, unlike Mass stipends or donations on a collection plate. If the Protestants had stolen St Peter’s Basilica there’d be a till at every entrance.

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4.54
You’re a gag, you are.😄
Your suggestion that donations from Catholics aren’t compelled is a lie. Either this, or you are ignorant of Canon Law. This states that Catholics are ‘under a grave obligation’ to support their pastors. Not as blatant as those Protestants you criticise, but an imposition, all the same.😅

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5:54
A grave obligation eve-en. Tis a bit overly black en white is it not?
The question is what happens finance given to support Pastors?

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It takes a geg to know a geg. Everyone, rich or poor, religious or not, whether praying or not, has to pay to enter major Protestant churches, even if not going to a service. In Catholic churches there is no entrance fee and only Mass-going Catholics are asked to make a voluntary donation at Mass if they are able to. All the tourists and non-Catholics entering St Peter’s Basilica don’t have to pay a red cent. It’s some like £20 to go into St Paul’s Cathedral.

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6:24 Just a suggestion: turn up and tell them you’ve got no money and see what happens.
Oh you won’t, because you’re just trolling the blog with what you think is a point. 🤣

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I am a person of means, I am wealthy by inheritance. I never married and am will not be able to spend my money before I die realistically. I attend mass daily and would gladly pay the all the utility bills for my parish. In fact you have given me an idea, I will offer.

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This parish has looked after generations of our family from cradle to the grave. My prosperity is in part due to the stability and direction of this parish and the many priests who serve us. I could nit give enough to them.

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2:00
Did your family hold shares and investments in a clerical portfolio?

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Reply to;Anonymoussays:
May 1, 2023 at 1:38 pm
Great idea, you can’t take it with you, spread a little warmth.
Surely that’s how it should be that those who can afford it, and who use the facility should contribute more.
I

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Thank you, I will try. I can only give the Dioceses 5 million cash but it is given with a grateful and loyal heart. The rest will be given in trust, the fund will release 1 million per year for 25 years. God bless.

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I know know of one Roman Catholic church in Ireland who has recently held a country music concert in the church, with a full house, not one empty seat and raised 10,000 Euro. I am not sure how that sits with Matthew 21:12. I suppose needs must.
“Where there’s a will there’s a way”.
I bet there was no complaints about the heating on that night.
Pat are you next?
COUNTRY MUSIC GIG RAISED ALMOST €10,000 FOR BAGENALSTOWN ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
SUNDAY, APRIL 23, 2023

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Our parish priest is a very innovative man. He is getting a Grant to insert a heat pump to reduce his bills.

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2.45: Well done to the priest and parishioners.. Great fundraising. Once had (pre covid) a garda band concert in our church to help carry out roof work and made E10,000 on the night. Fantastic..

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The Guards give my granny a party and a free dinner & a gift at Christmas, it’s lovely and she and her friends always enjoy it.

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Not one word about the money saved during Covid lockdown, no heating, no lighting, in either churches or schools, short memory syndrome?
I find it interesting that the Roman Catholic laity, because they were getting nothing i.e Mass, in return for their normal contributions at Sunday Mass, etc, stopped giving money to their churches, what does that say about of Roman Catholics.
One things for sure, if the Roman Catholic church if they clergy see or hear, if there is any money to be gained either from Governments or, anyone else, they will first to be aware of the handouts, and as usual, be first in the queue.
If one of the richest business organisation in the world, continues to keep on begging for money, many Roman Catholics will be turned of, and that prating for more cash, is likely do more harm than good, as so many of the Roman Catholic church attendees are elderly, some not too flushed with money themselves, will without conscience listen to Mass on the Radio or, “attend ” a virtual Mass on YouTube, rather than putting their lives in danger by sitting in cold draughty churches.
Don’t forget few contributions during Covid, they same scenario will play out if many get their Mass from a different source, which amounts to no contributions, the Roman Catholic church will have to wait ’til the pop their clogs, to get any cash out of them.

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They only spend it on popppers and the like when they get it anyway. Those old dears should get high as a kite themselves before they pop they’re clogs like.

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Respectfully, Bishop Pat some of the posts today were chapter sized from War & Peace. Should contributors not get to the point? Losing the will to live here ….

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Crying away about Climate Change crap only influences increased energy prices and those crying for shorter Masses wont have to worry about a lack of heat in the next world

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