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UNCOMMITTED CATHOLICS USING CHURCHES AND NOT PAYING THEIR WAY.

A Belfast priest has faced online criticism after hitting out at those who present their children for sacraments but don’t donate to the church.

During a service last weekend, Fr Martin Magill of St John’s on the Falls Road said it was not fair for those who don’t regularly attend Mass to bring their kids for sacraments and then neglect donating to the parish.

Addressing the church’s webcam during the service, he began his homily by calling on its volunteers to “share out their responsibility”, as it was not “fair” that “more and more being asked of those who already volunteer”.

He went on to address those watching the service through the webcam.

“That’s you, the parents who bring your children for baptism, we certainly welcome you.

“Some of you leave a donation which goes to parish funds and some of you don’t.

hink about this, you are taking advantage of other people’s generosity, that’s not fair.

“When I am talking to you, when you bring your children for baptism, you take on the responsibility to pass on the faith to them.

“Simply sending them to a Catholic school and the next time you turn up is for their first confession isn’t meeting that responsibility, at some stage we need to talk about cheap grace.

“Have a look at first communion. We had three classes here on a Sunday. How many of you have been back since?

“Let me address this. I have heard afterwards some parents or some of those who were here used the word ‘disgrace’ when we took up the parish collections.

“Let me say, if we didn’t take up those collections, there wouldn’t be a St John’s church for you to attend for first holy communion.”

Following his sermon, which was broadcast on St John’s Facebook page, many took to social media to express their anger at Fr Magill’s comments.

PAT SAYS

I agree with Fr Magill’s sentiments.

No one can charge for sacraments. That’s SIMONY!

But let’s be practical. Church buildings cost money to run – lighting, heating, cleaning, maintenance etc

These things are often paid for by faithful parishioners paying their £5. £10 or £20 per week into their parish

Why should someone, or parents, who never darken the Church door for years and contribute nothing think that they can use the building and its services for nothing?

If they or their families are using facilities, they should contribute.

Especially when they are splashing out big money on things like dresses, suits, hairdressing, limos, restaurant meals, photography, etc.

None of these things would be happening if it were not for the original baptism, confirmation, or wedding.

It’s as if people want to pay for all the accidentals but not for the basis event.

The Bible addresses this issue

1 Timothy 5:18 

“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”

When I started celebrating weddings 30 years ago, I left the offering to people’s generosity and sense of goodness and justice.

I was utterly shocked by people’s lack of generosity and lack of thoughtfulness.

They would give me an envelope with a Fiver in it – and then spend a £1000 on a helicopter.

Not on!

Of course, if people are poor, it’s very different.

I’ve taken nothing from such people and paid for a wedding meal for them

But if people are spending £ 30,000 to £50,000 on a wedding and a honeymoon, I will not take a Fiver or it’s equivalent from them.

I‘m more than happy to be a servant.

But not a doormat.

I have bills too – electricity, gas, lighting, heating, maintenance, cleaning, and so forth.

If you want a doormat, try B&Q.

184 replies on “UNCOMMITTED CATHOLICS USING CHURCHES AND NOT PAYING THEIR WAY.”

Fr Magill is correct, most of these people couldn’t tell you the reason they are getting their children baptised, make their communion or confirmation. They do it because ‘everyone else is doing it’.

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The schools built on church property are manipulating people into having contact with a church no longer worthy of respect because respect is earned and church people have shown time and time again they don’t respect children and cover up for church related criminality etc.

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So people getting their kids baptized should turn up with enough understanding to explain it to the priest?
Wouldn’t it help if there was someone whose job it was to explain it to them? 😂

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9:01 Of course not, no member of the past three generations of my family has been to church since my three great uncles were all abused by priests.
The game’s up, love, and your rage at this fact, as well as the prospect of you actually having to get a job, is the best bit.

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Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s. Fr Magill is correct. Bouncy Catholics will spend a fortune on the family gathering afterwards and the bouncy castles. They must pay a reasonable donation.

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So, you would charge for grace, Seamus?
Priests already charge for Mass, now they want to charge for everything else. We had a reformation over stuff like that.

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Diocese of Down & Connor - Parishioners summoned to attend church to be counted in Census.says:

Diocese of Down & Connor conducted a Census at all masses across the Diocese this weekend. Parishioners were requested to attend and take a short moment to fill in the tally count with the volunteers.
Parishioners were told:
“You need to turn up to be counted”

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Stupid parents deserve whatever Fr Magill chooses to throw at them if they not paying up. Lidl don’t give them those trolleys of booze and crisps for free for these big shindigs. It’s HIS Church, pay up or keep out. Simples.

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No, 10.48. They do it because the fear of eternal punishment instilled in them by the Church runs very deep. This is how the Church controls people. It doesn’t set them free in Christ, it shackles them with mindless fear, itself a form of abuse. But, then, this is what the Church does best: the abuse of small children, in all sorts of ways.
Watch out! There’s a priest about.

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He is not the only one… Everywhere you go it is the same melody…money…money…money…
Who asked you in the first place to become Roman Catholic Priest, if you heard a call as you all pretend nowadays, you should follow Jesus barefoot. You should stop asking for donations, gifts, and money.

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I don’t agree – collections should be optional and whether parishioners give or not it’s inappropriate to browbeat or shame them into donating – most dioceses if not all are flowing over with cash – don’t try and deny it and they should meet parish shortfalls from a central fund.
Plus trust me people aren’t donating because they do t trust the clergy – suck it up and remember you are unworthy servants only doing your duty.

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Yeah. Try praying for mammon, and just watch those notes fall down from heaven. 🤣
A load of nonsense, the whole thing.

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When you see how the clergy live like royalty in the vatican people believe the church is overflowing with money and do not need money from hard hit families. If the church carried out its duties as jesus asked them to we would be living in a peaceful world. What has gone wrong ?

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Tank you Pat for your response to this issue. I don’t agree with judging people in any way but reality has to be spoken bluntly sometimes. Where I am based we have a varied mix of people, a faithful constituency being very kind and generous. So many people today expect much from the Church at various moments and some complain for the sake of complaining. At weddings, communions and confirmations no money is spared by couples or families but a donation of any kind is often complained about. What disturbed me recently at 4 confirmation and first Communion celebrations was the extravagance and expenditure by parents…limousines, horse drawn carriage, huge dresses, tiaras and the incredible fashion of all…Nothing was spared and I understand the importance of special moments but the majority of the parents won’t be in the Church with their child till their confirmation!! It makes me question the significance or insignificance of all my work in the past year with the children in the parish and school programme. After a Communion ceremony recently with 45 children, only 4 returned the next day to join with the congregation. Says it all.

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Why on earth would you be surprised that only four out of forty five children returned? Look to yourself and your fellow priests for the answer to that one.
YOU are the reason for this. You and your fellow priests have done so much damage to the Church. You have shown the people wickedness rather than Christ. You have shown them that you really don’t believe in the God you drone on about. But in your arrogance, your blindness, you will not acknowledge that it is YOU who have brought the Church into the gutter.
Jesus is ashamed of you all.

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LOL so you hold these mammoth production line first communions but its somehow the kids’ or the parents’ fault when they don’t come back?
Who’s holding these communions and providing the venue, someone should speak to them. 😂

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10:53 do you seriously expect them to allowed themselves to be “groomed” by their local cult! Get real!

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Very few I should imagine. And thank God for it.
You won’t find Jesus in the Catholic Church. You’ll find other things, though, and in abundance. Especially the children.

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9.34
Why did uou put yourself forward for seminary if ghat’s the case? Actions speak louder than words, despite yourself.
But hey! The good news:- you were stopped in your tracks. Deo gratias.

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People like rituals. There is nothing to do with faith as faith with money and donation. And they hate priests, bishops, and cardinals for the bad reputation of sexual abuse of women and children. And if the people will be like you they will burn you like lambs in the sticks…

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Father Padraig Greene, I wonder can the Diocese of Elphin tell the Blog if he is still alive and if so, his whereabouts

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Not going to Mass on Sunday is a sin, a mortal sin, but there are a portion who keep a thread of attendance which is sparse but has some regularity, maybe a Sunday or two over some months.. A well conducted wedding or funeral can be a means of evangelisation. However, the modern way of all comers going to Communion is not a good thing. A man I know who recently died, a window fitter, said the old men of his time only got Communion at Easter, which was the Catholic minimum, and I suspect these old working men had better Catholic formation in one of their rough fingertips than a thousand modern Catholics

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Rubbish! Not going to Mass on Sundays is a mortal sin? Absolute balderdash!
This is a man-made, pharasaical law. No one believes it anymore, except fools.

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Where in the Bible does it say not attending mass is a mortal sin?
Made up RCC nonsense as usual.

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Marriages and funerals should only be held for people who actually attend mass and are active Catholics. Baptisms should only be for children whose parents are married and active Catholics. When you ask a mother why they are getting their 5th child by a 5th different man out of wedlock baptised, “Cus everyone does it” “for a party”. This is not acceptable. Priests get a lot of stick on this blog, but it is the laymen who are the biggest hypocrites in society.

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11:02 the bishops who dictate that priests conduct these ceremonies are also hypocrites. It’s all a farce in its final throes.

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Yet what you say is the exact opposite of what the church has done and teaches so perhaps you should be the first to be refused.
Don’t get me wrong – I totally think they should do what you suggest. It would ensure it dies out in a generation.

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I fully appreciate that everyone should contribute to the services they choose to use in the Church but I was absolutely taken back when I received a bill for £250 for “The services of the priest and use of the Church” for the requiem Mass for a gentleman who had faithfully and actively served his parish for over 80yrs ,as had his wife and son. They had contributed £1000s to their parish in their life time and left money in their will to their church. The priest, a young fit man in his 40s, made no contact before the service. I sent 9 emails and 5 phone calls to be told eventually by the undertaker that” Father doesn’t visit the bereaved and I should have gone to see him”. (I live 52 miles away). As for the service. It was at the normal Thursday mass time so the lighting and heating would have been on anyway and he would have been celebrating Mass. The organist was a separate payment which is fair but to charge £250 for what was actually 40 mins in Church and 15mins at the cemetery is rather a good stipend! The next funeral I need to arrange I think I will get the funeral company’s humanist He only charges £100.

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11:02 some children only have one parent at the sacraments, others have 2 mammies, 2 daddies, it’s not easy these days.

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11:05 Ara plenty of celebs and political animals would open a brown envelope for a few quid a photo opp and a crowd clapping.

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Thank you for your admission that priests compare themselves and their ethics to the ethics of celebs. Just like you all point to every other paedophile when yet another priest gets caught.
‘Anything Fred West did I should be able to do!’

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Ara don’t be so extreme. Priests are only human beings. I’m only saying like and I’m not a priest.

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Everyday I read this blog a few times. There are always the same topics. Sex and corruption. Sex means too much to too many corrupt people.

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The great Chinese philosopher, Pei Wei Shi once said; “tradition hard to break, even when know it’s wrong”

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No priests no sacraments is a threat or taunt bishops throw around – the sacraments of penance and ordination are later conflations and didn’t exist in the early church – marriage predates Christianity and the couple administrate the sacrament to each other – the sacrament of anointing was not reserved to one man in the early church but to elders.
In extremist lay people can baptise an infant so why not ex extremis?
Transubstantiation is a medieval construct – the early church celebrated an agape meal.
Hey Ignatious of Antioch would say the church needs bishops – he was a bishop – but it’s nonsense – where two or three gather Jesus is present.
The priesthood is a redundant profession as the singular fount of grace and the sole administrator of the source and summit of the Christian life.
The stunt Finton played is that simply a stunt – the real revolution won’t be a revolution it will come because through slow but sure decline because the scandal of child abuse/cover up/corruption the idea of a good bishop or authentic priests is bollox andlay people – the People of God – will vote with their feet stop going to church and stop donating and form house churches.
Not in my lifetime or yours or maybe several generations but it’s coming baby it’s coming.

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People with strong faith do not need a priest!!! You know nothing about faith, all you care about is money!!! So get a second job to increase your profit. You have plenty of time don’t waste on masturbating, porn videos, Socratic lovers outfit, or sexual abuse and alcohol. Be useful!!!

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All religion is a load of bolllox. Maybe as more people throw away the pernicious clerical shackles of the RCC brand, there will develop an increasing number who cast aside the whole shebang of religiously hoping for a happy hereafter, and concentrate more on making life here on earth a better place for us all.
I’m sure the amount of wasted energy and resources devoted to religion could be put to much better use.

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@11:40: I agree.
With its origins in primitive humankind’s fear of the unknown, religion’s continuation, in all its forms, is maintained by a self serving parasitical priesthood.
MMM

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9:20
Says Mourneful who spent over 5 years studying for the priesthood. He then became a self serving parasitical good without God social worker.

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11.21
The Catholic Church would claim to bring Christ to the world, to have God, and yet, it is very bad indeed. Is God toxic to the soul?
Maybe, if you want to be good, you do need to give up all belief in God. He’s a bad influence. Just loom at the Catholic Church.

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@ 12:09
The Catholic Church is not alone in claiming to bring Christ to the world. No Christian denomination has God, as if God is their possession, in their ‘back pockets’. ‘Is God toxic to the soul’? What do you think?

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Perhaps 11:21 after his five years he’d seen enough of “the priesthood” to realise he didn’t want to join that clique. Lucky him!

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3:21
Is he unable to speak for himself? You didn’t answer, ‘Is God toxic to the soul’? Perhaps after five years in Maynooth studying for the catholic ‘priesthood’ he joined a secular form of ‘priesthood’- do-gooders without God working with marginalized deprived underclass communities-secular soft cops funded by the State instead of the Church. Frying pan, to fire, comes to mind. He went from one clique to another clique. Good luck!

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The current seminarians are all gay, they have vowed celibacy but how do you manage to fulfil that after years of having gay sexual contact. It will be very hard and they are bound to fail.

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Absolutely correct +Pat, before I left the RC I always contributed to the church several times a year and was mindful to be a little more generous with the basket as I was aware that I didn’t attend every week, I don’t expect anyone to run a church on fresh air if I choose to participate. It’s basic decency and respect if nothing else. I’ve always thought children should be encouraged to write a thank you card & donate 10 percent of the large sums of money that Irish children receive as sacrament gifts. In fairness, the priest and sacristan and others put a lot of work into the preparation for these big events. It is extremely insulting to give nothing or a sum disproportionate to what one is spending on the rest of the celebration whether it be a wedding, first holy communion or confirmation. I have heard if it weren’t for the undertakers dealing with the funeral bill, many families would not pay the priest for funeral mass or months mind either. That is shocking and also very disrespectful to the deceased. I also don’t understand why people want to receive sacraments in a church when they don’t actually practice their religion any more and many children are only taught prayers at school and not at home. Be in or be out. It’s not a half way House.

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I don’t imagine parents would get away with saying “disgrace” when the hotel bill for all the food and drink is presented or the bills for bouncy castles, entertainers and what not. On the one hand many claim priests are paedophiles or paedophile protectors yet they dress their kids up and present them to these same priests to receive sacraments for a photo opportunity. It’s all very confusing at this stage!

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I don’t think for an instant they are the same people. I have encouraged my children to treat priests with great suspicion and they’re both gloriously unbaptised and growing up assertive and critical. They’re a credit to me.

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12:08 everything they do is about the money, the mask is slipping because with lower mass attendances it’s imperative now that those who do attend contribute an amount proportionate to what they can afford. Magill and his colleagues are answerable to their Bishops. The Bishop takes money from parish funds.

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The A La Carte menu at the hotel is expensive. So why do the occasional catlicks expect their A La Carte sacraments to be free of charge. The mindset of any type of catlick is beyond normal comprehension at this stage.

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The future of Armagh is bleak with the abuse exposure of its seminarians. Why is Armagh the single Diocese with the highest percentage of seminarians and priests who are abusers and predators. What is the central reason for this and it is continuing.

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More than 600 children were sexually abused by over 150 Catholic priests and others associated with the Archdiocese of Baltimore over the last 80 years, a newly released state report has found.

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1:02 do what kind of parents engage with the RC? Responsibility is a two way process. It’s not like they cannot know about it, they’ve got Google.

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1.02
What would be more interesting to know would be the number of people in the same area at that time convicted of CSA. Many multiples of 600 I’d hazard a guess.

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Where the Bride & Groom do not regularly attend the Church, the donation to the church for a wedding should match the amount spent on flowers. The donation to the priest should cover his day’s wages & expenses. The donation should be overlooked where the couple cannot afford a donation due to their income levels but never overlooked so that they can splash out elsewhere. Its a Church, a parish resource, not a private venue.

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Most priests are more than capable of supporting themselves financially through full or part-time employment.
Stop sponging off lay people, Father, and get a proper job.

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That’s a different model of priesthood. The whole system in Ireland would need restructuring to facilitate what you seek. Perhaps +Pat might open a blog on that issue. To note that the part-time, otherwise employed ministry model also comes with the support of marriage. So let’s consider the whole package if we are to consider anything. And I am not disagreeing with you, but must follow the system and continue to fraudulently report that I am self employed so that the Diocese doesn’t pay any employers PRSI.

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I am reading your post very late about that priest you helped in Belfast Pat. I am a bit pissed but I was touched what you did for him. Thanks for doing that.

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When we offer masses we adhere to the Church’s needs.
When we explain “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” we unpack hope. Like tonight’s 2nd reading. Suffering, perseverance, hope… sometimes we suffer today because of growth we need for tomorrow. That is how I learned to self-reflect and rooted out the narcissistic elements I inherited from my collat (and unknownst to myself) adapted.

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Oscott just needs to fly the rainbow flag from its tower and proclaim to the world it’s true identity as a palace for gin swigging active homosexuals …

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Money loving priest Colm McBride announced in mass that he will be leaving St Joseph’s in Crumlin in August and is going to St Teresa’s in west Belfast. I imagine it’s so a collection can be arranged for him in timely fashion but have you heard who is replacing him?

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Good Morning all, windering about my good late friend and when will there be serious insight and questions asked about the death of Father Tony Corr? RIP chum

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As stated before: the RCC is in a mess of its own making. Instead of rooting out the clergy who are living a double life, the hierarchy continue to bury their heads in the sand. One has to ask why this is. Are members of the hierarchy compromised as well, do they even care and do they hope by remaining silent this will all go away? It won’t. Or do the hierarchy realise that a purge would further shatter confidence in a failing church and ultimately affect their income. Whatever way one looks at it these phoney priests are doing nothing to further the gospel of Jesus Christ. Nor are their bishops/cardinals who remain silent and allow these things to pass. I can only come to the conclusion that the RCC is more interested in control of the faithful and ensuring that their coffers continue to be filled

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I also agree with Fr. Magill’s sentiments. The church needs to talk about cheap grace. What about uncommitted catholic priests using the church? German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer in his book,’The Cost of Discipleship’, makes a distinction between ‘cheap’ and ‘costly’ grace. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate. According to Bonhoeffer to hear the gospel preached as follows: “Of course you have sinned, but now everything is forgiven, so you can stay as you are and enjoy the consolations of forgiveness.” The problem with such a proclamation is that it contains no demand for discipleship. In contrast to costly grace which confronts us as a gracious call to follow Jesus, it comes as a word of forgiveness to the broken spirit and the contrite heart. It is costly because it compels a man to submit to the yoke of Christ and follow him; it is grace because Jesus says: “My yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Bonhoeffer argues that as Christianity spread, the Church became more “secularised”, accommodating the demands of obedience to Jesus to the requirements of society. In this way, “the world was Christianised, and grace became its common property.” But the hazard of this was that the gospel was cheapened, and obedience to the living Christ was gradually lost beneath formula and ritual, so that in the end, grace could literally be sold for monetary gain. Bonhoeffers book was first published in 1937, when the rise of the Nazi regime was underway in Germany. It was against this background that Bonhoeffer’s theology of costly discipleship developed, which led to his death. Dietrich Bonhoeffer practised what he preached, the true cost of discipleship.

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You agree with Fr Magill’s sentiments? You are a priest yourself, aren’t you? So no surprise that you agree with Magill.
You have made costly discipleship the equuvalent of giving money to the Church. You have twisted Bonhoeffer’s own words, just as you all have twisted the Gospel to mean what you want it to mean.
The Church, priests, are in a great place to talk about cheap grace. You lot would know all about cheapened grace, for you have cheapened the Word of God through abuse of children and adults.

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Probably only a Roman Catholic could twist Bonhoeffer’s theology of costly discipleship to mean ‘please give generously’.

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9:32
Heaven forbid, I am not a priest of any Christian denomination. What does
1 Timothy 5:18 say? What is the definition of sentiment? What question did I pose; ‘What about uncommitted catholic priests using the church’? Off you go- twist away to your hearts content, as generously as you wish.

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12.49
Yes. He’s a twister alright. We owe a lot go the seminary council which sent him on his dreary way.

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The clergy have been taking the piss for years, now the parents are mirroring their behaviour instead of growing a pair of balls & telling school they don’t want kids going in paedo temples. They are all as bad as each other scamming one other. I’ll still erect the bouncy castle if I’m paid, I won’t be doing it for nothing and I always take payment in advance based on past experiences.

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That is exactly what I was thinking. If the church wants to do anything like build or restore a church the first thing they do is ask people to give generously.
We all remember how the church pretended to be poor in the pandemic despite every diocese having millions in reserves which they didn’t touch.

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I definitely think the sacraments, including confession, should be refused to those who don’t attend frequently. That’s a brilliant idea and would sort the problem out very quickly.

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The Sacraments are just signs of the sacred; they are not sacred in themselves.
The sacred is everywhere, so refusing anyone the Sacraments is pointless.

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Every cleric, including Bishop Pat, will support and salute his direct and honest approach not realising that giving lay people a good old bollocking about digging deep into their pockets will achieve precisely the opposite effect -look at it like this – would you put angry and possessed off priest in charge of fundraising – your answer is yes whereas everyone knows he’s a disaster at this particular role and believe it or not tge days of pissed off on the alter giving the people a piece of your mind are long over.
Well done Fr Magill you sure screwed that one up – no way on Gods good earth that the people will get give now!!

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Shush, 8:10, don’t interrupt them when they’re biting the hand that feeds them. 🤲
I love the way at the same time they’re moaning people don’t go to church or have an understanding of baptism. They’re hilarious. 😁

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Just to give a counterpoint to the thoroughly European views so far: throughout the bible instructions are heavily influenced by an imperative to show hospitality to the stranger.
May I suggest that the matter might look different when you take money out of it and start putting an ethic of hospitality in instead?

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When Magill was in Poleglass he fought with everyone. It was always about money. Pat if you knew our community here, you know we are deprived and poor. Yet he went to war with us over donations. Even Delia was not as bad as him. He had the principal in St Ciaran’s Primary School tortured also. My own personal dealings with Magill were not positive and we were glad he was shipped out, we loved Paddy McCafferty though.

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Irish clergy are specialists at angry and pissed off about collections – no widows mote for them, oh no, they want big fat donations and despise the pennies of the poor widow.
Shame on that priest for berating the people about money – his diocese can well afford to make up the shortfall and it is disingenuous and dishonest to bang on about needing the cash for the church building (electricity, central heating) when we all know the money is for Fathers car, his takeaways, his expensive luncheons and holidays.
People are not buying it anymore – Magill should have thanked them for turning up not chastised them – all this blunt talk does is ensure the people refuse to give – think Carriot and Stick – he can console himself that his fellow clergy will slap him on the back for his candour whereas the people just think he’s a Hunt.

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Clergy claim to be self employed, can we class beggars the same way?
Clergy get a monthly stipend, should they not do it for free?
Clergy complain when they get ‘only’ a £200 gift for doing a funeral, do they tip £200 after a meal?
Does a nurse get tipped every time she helps patients? No, because she is already paid a monthly wage like the priest and wouldn’t accept it regardless.
Clergy get rent free 4/5/6 bedroom houses, with gas and electric paid for on top of their stipend, do parishioners?
Fr Martin Magill had better take a good long look at himself in the mirror!

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Great post.
I wonder hoe much money priests themselves contribute to running costs in a parish. They demand, like Magill, that everyone else chip in, but do they. I bet they don’t.

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This is the best post ever in this blog. It is fair and accurate. Fair play to both Pat and the Belfast priest.
Too many people use the church ceremonies as a fashion parade. Spending a fortune on drinky poos, fashion and photos and not a Euro for the premises. My experience has been that clergy are very understanding regards poorer families. Some of the poorer families are the most genuine and appreciative.
Thank you Pat for explaining costs. We do not live on fresh air. Anyone who disagrees should hang their heads in shame. They are basically moochers who want a big show for nothing

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I ain’t no father in any shape or form.You need to look in the mirror. I have worked all My life and paid my taxes etc. Have you? I have never been moocher. Have you?

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Grannie at 11.46 has it right, the church organisation seems to take the line that the sacraments are the fait accompli and one has to “rationalise” a raison d’etre for them. Instead, spend life thinking about reasons first and devise simple ceremonies eventually.

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Let’s not forget the amazing job Fr Magill did for Lyra McKee’s funeral. He was fantastic, and I don’t like men or Priests as you all know.

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I ain’t no father in any shape or form.You need to look in the mirror. I have worked all My life and paid my taxes etc. Have you? I have never been moocher. Have you?

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Thank you for reminding me of the amazing job he did about Lyra McKee’s funeral. I was quite touched by what I do in tv.
That is one priest who would make a good bishop.

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Today is the feast day of St Rita, patron saint of impossible cases, difficult marriages, and parenthood. Maybe Fr Magill should know his audience

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Can I just say that those three patronages on one saint are brilliant and show a really ironic sense of humour. She must have the patience of, er, a saint. 😂

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8.09.
That’s a clever idea – refusing a sacrament no one attends – brilliant role that idea out lads it will definitely catch on!! Give me strength.

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It’s brilliant. If you haven’t been to confession in the past year, as holy church requires, you should definitely not be allowed to go.
Priests want to be treated as employees and need to get a taste of what a contractual obligation looks like.
God knows, they don’t know what a covenantal obligation looks like.

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I remember Magill in the Wing. He was a prissy little prick. He hasn’t changed.
It is good that priests are squealing over falling donations. It is even better that the institutional church is withering on the vine. Wonderful.

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Why the surprise? Someone has to pay for the MIAs etc. It’s hardly going to be the hierarchy!
All jokes aside if parents don’t attend mass then expect to get first communion, confirmation etc for the kids then they should be paying a significant fee, like 100 euro each etc. Parents have no problem handing out vast sums of cash for food, bouncy castles, parties, booze and in some cases Cinderella horse-and-carriages for the kids so they should pay the priest. No fan of the RCC but these events are services and should be paid for.

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8.47: HI CARRIOT and STICK …though I’m sure you meant “CARROT”!! There are many people, sadly, in our parish communities who expect everything for free. Your comment is a flat denial that many who come to the churches for various occasions do so for photo album memories for the future. Why, if parents do not practice their given faith, do they bother spending a fortune on dresses, outfits, videographers, horse drawn carriages, limousines, restaurants? They won’t be able to say to any of these service providers, “sorry, that’s too much”!! I wouldn’t do what Fr. McGill did but he’s highlighted the hypocrisy and double standards of those who want much but give little to their church/parish community…

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Can’t believe you are in sympathy with that priest, Pat.
Yes, Jesus called everyone to him. To repent, and to hear the good news of salvation. But first, he demanded a monetary payment from them.
If you, Pat, and that vulgar priest, TRULY believed in God, you would know that he always provides. But you don’t believe in him, do you? Not really. Not deeply.
I remember Canon Larkin from when he visited my neck of the parish once a month. I don’t recall him ever preaching anything other than the need for money. Money. Money. Money. He was obsessed with it. And we were sick of the sight of him.

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Most priests are capable of working at least in part-time jobs, since they have little to do all day, every day.
I am sick and tired of hearing them whinge on about money. Money for this, money for that. Money is their true God.
I have a piece of advice: get off your fat arses and earn your daily bread, like everyone else.

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The Apostles managed to support themselves; I bet our Lord even knocked up a cabinet or chair to sell when required to support the mission.

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Does anyone remember the dark days when the holy priests used to name and shame the poor parents in a parish for the paucity of their donations? They were humiliated just for being poor, while the holy priests lived a fine lifestyle at their collective expense.
I hope Magill’s parishoners told him where to go.

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Indeed, and in the not too distant past some local parishes in Co. Derry sent out annual statements to parishioners setting out what they gave each year- a subliminal attempt to shame those who didn’t give and those who should give more. The donation boxes are also numbered so they can see what you give. It’s all about the money.

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@10:02am
If you remember those day’s you’ll remember that the so-called poor could never pay their dues, but had no bother paying for the drink. The priest was quite right to tell them they would have nowhere to go.

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I disagree, collections should be optional. We are all told how wealthy the RCC is on earth, billions in properties and investments, also the amount they get for schools alone from government grants etc..in Ireland is phenomenal. It is a large corporation making huge profit, claiming charitable status is wrong. No longer the church of nice, they need to pay for the victims of abuse and torture worldwide. Then the healing and cleansing will begin.

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Have the Chairperson of the Parish Pastoral Council address this issue from the Ambo on previous Sundays before the big event and that would leave the priest free to celebrate beautifully!

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I think every parishoner should be contractually bound to make a payment of at least £20 per week to the Church, and be sued by it for breach of contract if they don’t. And when I said “every parishoner” I meant every adult male and female, including those on State benefits and pensions.

The Church needs to show tough love to the Faithful. There is no such thing as a free lunch and we priests deserve our wages, as Jesus said.

The people need to reverence their priests, because, without us, they do not have Jesus.

We priests are God’s gift to the Church, as dear Pope Benedict XVI declared. Or as St John Vianney said next to Christ, the priest is the most important person. Not the Virgin Mary, but the priest. So the people should show God their gratitude for this not just in words, but in donations.

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10:37
Are you taking the Me-Hall? The Faithful need to show tough love to Bishops and Priests. Boycott money in baskets, evaluate sermons 0-10,
0 equals I fell asleep-10 equals God spoke through you, otherwise a cut
in wages or donations.Withdraw clearning services-clean the Church on your own! That’s just for starters.

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9.30am
Thank you for beginning your missive with a reference to my misspelling of Carrot – my arthritis interferes with my typing from time to time and a misspelling is indicative of my disability not sloppiness or ignorance.
That aside – you make my point eloquently by slapping Magill on the back and approving of what you think but dare not say.
I’m afraid if you want people to donate generously don’t berate or chastise or rebuke or humiliate as this only reinforces the entrenchement which results in intransigence and refusal.
It’s just basic psychology- try it in reverse – thank the people, bless them and rejoice in their turning up – don’t judge less ye be judged.

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Historically, priests have commercialised the Word of God. They have shown their divided loyalties by making money their chief concern; they even charge for Masses, which is an absolute disgrace, as well as a sin.
When you think of a priest, what comes to mind? It is hardly Jesus.

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9.30am
You couldn’t be more wrong Sir – your harsh and uncharitable judgement will and is biting you on the arse – trust me funding will dry up and people will no longer donate to this failed organisations a proven haven for child abusers and cover up merchants.

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10 44: Despite your protestations and fatalistic misery, the parish I’m presently working in proves over and over again that when a priest is at the heart of the parish doing his best for it in all ways, generosity of spirit grows exponentially. I am grateful for the very faithful community of believers who are incredibly kind, caring and supportive. These are the people who genuinely follow Jesus. They have no difficulty in supporting us. Why should you be bothered?

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Mr Magill is getting a right whooping on the blog today. Maybe he’ll learn to hold his tongue in future.
He must never have read the bit in Matthews gospel where Jesus tells his followers not to be anxious about their lives.

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Is it still necessary for a child to be baptised Roman Catholic to gain a place and, given priority in an Irish Roman Catholic school system? That in some eyes is seen as a smart move by parents, for their children to receive the sacraments, to enable easy admission to a local school, nothing to do with religion whatsoever.
I agree that a donation should be given, according to income, especially if the parents can afford a p–s up etc on the day, and pay out for that with no qualms.
There will always be those who only put a penny or two in the basket if at all, it’s funny to watch, the penny is held tightly in the clenched fist, the hand goes into the bag or basket as far as possible, the penny is dropped quietly, planned and, deftly executed, with not an jot of shame.
Surely transparency should be available for all parishioners, to see how the collection money is spent, how much has been collected 6 monthly, and yearly, and what it’s used for in the parish, and the shortfalls. If the people know how the money is spend they may contribute more.
Giving money to the priest for carrying out his duty, certainly should be optional, if its mandatory for Roman Catholics to be baptised, have First Communion, Confirmation, be married, death rites, according to the tenets of the Roman Catholic church, it is customary to give a donation to the priest but it is not compulsory, and it should certainly not a specific amount as I have pointed out previously, as is the way in my local Roman Catholic church.
The extortionate charge GBP 600 to the Roman Catholic Archdioceses of Birmingham, for a requiem Mass, use of the church, & attendance at the Crematorium, body not in the church overnight, service last, one – one and half hour. That compulsory charge, excludes the the donation to the priest & the payment to the organist.
“Once bitten twice shy”

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11:28am – I am not aware, and have never been aware of any compulsory charge of £600 anywhere in Birmingham Archdiocese’s 200+ parishes for a requiem mass.

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I think Queenie should withdraw that comment. She does put her big foot in it occasionally. Recently she told someone to read the News of the World. That paper was shut down several years ago for phone tapping.
I note today that her majesty has liked * opposing views.

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People should contribute to the up keep of their parish. Those who attend weekly probably do and give generously. We all know the numbers are no longer there to keep the lights on so what’s the solution. Berating those who only attend for their children’s sacraments is a low punch. For good reasons the catholic church has little or no meaning in their lives.
Why then send their children to a catholic school? It’s the only school in the area and the expectation is you receive first confession, first communion and confirmation if you attend. Try saying no and the teacher questions why you have your child at a catholic school. Where else would you go? The church should have no role in a school much less demand allegiance to it by insisting pupils receive sacraments.
Transfer preparation for these sacraments back to the parish and have children engage with the parish when they are older and better able to understand and participate. Then you have a more meaningful celebration of the sacrament on the day. Those who have no faith aren’t shamed into participating in something they would rather not.
Doesn’t solve the money crisis! At least the onus is rightly recognised as that of the church. Seems to me there are too many churches for the dwindling numbers. The cathedral, Clonard, St Pauls, Corpus and St Johns all within spitting distance of each other. Ridiculous.
The money pot established for a rainy day needs raided. It was our money, wasn’t it. The £140 million D & C ‘supposedly’ has would go a long way to keeping lights on for another few years. Priests are paid too much. I wish my employer gave me their wage as well as all the benefits of a parochial house, cheap loans etc.. Cut their salary in half and put the savings back into the parish. But what do I know.
There are solutions to the financial crisis facing our local churches but it is not just to demand more from those who aready give. The church will only survive if it downsizes and reorganises.
However, I fear all is a paper exercise unless the Christ message is realised anew and made relevant to the modern age. Otherwise, no need to worry about 2040 onwards.

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12:47
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit . . . Do not quench the Spirit . . . Insulting the Spirit of grace (Ephesians 4:30, 1 Thessalonians 5:19, Hebrews 10:29).

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I do not think it is just the Parents of children that need looked at but also the ones who use the canonical rules of age and illness not to attend yet you see them in Restaurants, pubs, Bingo or spending a fortune on their luxury things like steaks and fags.

It is time for them to open their clutch bags and get their purse out rather than thinking they have paid their way and will be giving the Priest a donation for the funeral that they wont be here to see if the Priest got his stole donation.

Clergy should not take money for funerals however the failies should give a donation towards the Church.

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One of the disadvantages of thinking you’re better than everyone else is that you miss the opportunity to learn from other people.
If Romans worked with other denominations they would discover that some Evangelical churches do actually have membership contracts, do not admit you to communion if you’re not a member, and giving 10% of your gross income is a condition of membership, as well as a certain level of attendance.
If the Romans introduced these memberships it would solve his gripe, and incidentally solve the whole thing when parents see NDAs and litigation waivers for child abuse on Roman contracts.

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Bishop Pat, is there a link so people can donate to the Oratory Society?
I have just looked but there isn’t one.
Or do you have details for setting up a standing order or similar? x

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Mr Magill deserves a drubbing and I hope his parishioners dig deep and refuse point blank to give into this donation shaming and understand that when a tyrant runs out of options they revert to type: bullying, chastising, rebuke and intimidation.
He’s set back generous giving by a mile but they never learn and they never will – his celibacy was enforced what makes think that his parishioners giving can be to.
It can’t and this tactic – speaking in anger and frustration and probably fear only fuels the fire of resentment and resistance.
He needs a sabbatical in Charm School- a place the Charmless go.

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People don’t realise how expensive it is running a home or church / office these days, and with the current economic climate it’s more difficult than ever.
Food, utilities and even petrol has never been so expensive.
Then there are things like maintenance and insurance costs.
Running a car entails Insurance, MOT and petrol – mentioned above.

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‘What has good enough for our day’ got to do with the Gospel?
Maybe the church can consider monies received good enough
for their day.

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There are also other big costs Peter – MIAs, further studies, compensation for victims of physical/sexual abuse, money owed to victims tapped for money by rogue priests, hush money, the Boilerhouse/Hippodrome, the bills go up and up:-)

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Don’t forget fees & costs covering-COOs, NDAs, wining and dining dignitaries, legal fees to barristers and solicitors,travel expenses for MIAs further studies candidates,course costs, therapy costs including travel expenses accommodation meals, the bills soar higher and higher!

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Peter, ‘People don’t realise how expensive…’???
People??? Where do you imagine people live except in buildings which all attract bills and all have food, etc, to buy?
You mean people who don’t pay their own bills and therefore are talking about priests. Everyone else knows perfectly well how expensive everything is.

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What has that got to do with Canon shine? He is not responsible for his adult nephew, any more than Philip schofield is responsible for his brother.

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10:43
Good, you read the links provided. My comment had nothing to do with liking, disliking, or curtailing free speech. Links provide readers of Bishop Buckley’s blog with further information. Sadly, facts can be brutal in the pursuance of justice. Such is life.

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10:37. I’ve just read your post and can’t stop laughing. You are a gift from God?? Have you ever thought of getting counselling for delusion? Without you they don’t have Christ? What are you sniffing sir? There is one man between God and Christ. The man Christ Jesus. Not you, you deluded fool. Not your bishop, nor your cardinal nor Pope. It’s a beautiful night with a slight breeze. Go outside and breathe in some fresh air to see if it clears your head a little and gives you any sense. Honest to goodness are you sure your post is not just a wind up? If it is not, I fear for your sanity

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6:57
If it’s not a wind up I also fear for him. Perhaps that is what he gets for sticking around D&C for too long.

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Pat, I never thought I would hear myself say this. I totally agree with your blog today (can’t say the same about some of the comments). I even mentioned this blog at a meeting of First Holy Communion parents, because I was able to thank them for their contributions to parish life.

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Does the former seminarian turned unionist not have any unionist rallies to go to, or any orange sashes to make? He must spend hours commenting here. If he had to pay Pat for the privilege, Pat could retire tomorrow.

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