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CLERICAL COLLAR – SYMBOL OF ABUSE AND CORRUPTION OR ???

A blog reader suggested that the clerical collar has become the symbol of abuse and corruption 😞

I agree that many, many bishops and priests have greatly tarnished the image and reputation of the priesthood – and indeed the clerical collar.

I have been verbally abused on the streets of Dublin for wearing my collar. I was followed by a group of university students calling me “Paedo Priest.”

It has never happened to me in Belfast or Northern Ireland.

I will let readers answer the question today: “Is the clerical collar now a symbol of abuse and corruption?”

WHY I WEAR THE COLLAR

I wear the collar for two very clear reasons

1. As a WITNESS to the existence of Faith and Jesus.

2. As an INVITATION to anyone and everyone to approach me if they want to or need to.

And, I do not at all mind being a lightening conductor for those who need to express hurt and anger at what the Church has done to so many victims.

CAN I SHARE A STORY?

I had arranged to meet a Dublin priest for lunch at Buswells Hotel in Dublin.

He was there first and dressed in mufti and was angry that I was wearing a collar – he thought it would draw attention to us.

After lunch, he offered to walk me back to my car on Stephens Green.

As we walked up Grafton Street, a young man approached me and asked me if I was a priest.

I told him I was.

He told me that he was a university student from France and was also diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and that he had left his medication at home in France that morning and was now beginning to feel very unwell. He thought that with me being a priest, I might be willing to help him.

I put him in my car and drove him to a hospital A&E and stayed with him until they called a psychiatrist and sorted him with his medication.

I dropped him off at the hostel he was staying in and gave him my contact details in case he needed any more assistance.

The following day, my Dublin priest friend called me and asked me not to say, “I told you so.” And he did say that he had gotten the message.

A collar or vestments do not make the priest.

But symbols do talk maybe more than ever. In this very secular world, signs of the overlooked sacred have their place?

PICS I CAME ACROSS YESTERDAY DOING A TIDY UP

BISHOP MICHAEL RUSSELL ORDAINING ME IN 1976 IN WATERFORD
FIRST BLESSINGS
FIRST MASS. BALLYGALL DUBLIN.
FIRST MASS

110 replies on “CLERICAL COLLAR – SYMBOL OF ABUSE AND CORRUPTION OR ???”

Let us nor forget those who do not approach us, but see the collar – and because of that sight they reflect on their faith, or a decision to be made that day and decide to act differently than they might otherwise have. We know not the impact of being a visible witness of Christ.

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Yes @ 8:29, “wishful thinking ” sums it up exactly. It’s simply another of the delusive thought processes commonly found in RCC clergy.
The whole God/religious shibboleth is wishful thinking, a trait harnessed by clerics placing themselves as a necessary intermediary and conduit for the wishful afterlife.
MMM

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9.27
I wonder whether you adequately understand the word shibboleth or whether the irony of its biblical origins is lost on you.

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@11:15: You’re welcome to feign misguided superiority through knowledge of Judges 12, or all the rest of that hotchpotch of biblical scribblings. They are irrelevant other than providing fodder ‘arguendo’.
I simply use the word in its ‘Wicki’ meaning: “custom, principle or belief distinguishing a class or group of people, especially a longstanding one regarded as outmoded or no longer important ” Sounds dead on for the RCC. Happy now?
MMM

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9:27
Are you demonstrating illusory magical thinking considering according to you the whole God/religious shibboleth is wishful thinking?

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Not at all 4.01.
There is no ‘magic’ nor ‘magical thinking’ in simply being an unbeliever who, seeing no reliable evidence for God, nor gods, invites believers to show such evidence: as I have numerous times on this blogsite. But maybe you’re a relative newcomer? So go on, show me YOUR reliable evidence.
MMM

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3.50
A most benighted attitude to the book which more than any other has had the most influence on humanity.
At one stage here you disparaged the education you received in Ireland and went on to opine you were really not educated until you embraced further and higher education in Britain.
You have a bit to go yet.

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@6:11. I believe it’s a much debated question which “book” has had greatest influence. Some argue that the biblical collection of writings (which ignores other similar contemporary tracts), hardly merits being called a “book”.
Depending on one’s perspective, others such as Darwin’s “On the origin of Species, Marx’s “Das Kapital” and many others are also considered to be in contention.
But I’m obliged to agree with you that the Bible certainly has had a hugely significant influence. And I certainly would also have much sympathy with the many who point to the Bible as the most malign influence at the root of much of the world’s current religiously inspired dissension.
MMM

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Dear MMM,
Respectfully I normally appreciate your posts as you make worthwhile challenges. However in this case I wish to distance myself from your interpretation. I do not believe there is anything of necessity in clerics being present as intermediates between humanity and God. Clerics were not needed at creation. God spoke directly to mankind then, as he does today. But I do believe some people benefit from the signposts of other people being witnesses to God. Those others might not be clerics. In the case of a cleric wearing a collar, I do believe it is a reminder to people, perhaps those who choose not to think of God but who might benefite if there thoughts were mused somewhat.

I must also fully acknowledge that the collar may also provoke thoughts that are less than wholesome – such as honest reminders of clerical abuse, scandalous cover ups, inauthentic clerics/religious and a church that is probably humanity’s greatest failure since the dawn of time. The church is a wreck and a shambles such that it constantly reminds us of our universal dependency on God. Nothing could depend on the Catholic Church or its clergy, especially not eternal salvation

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Thank you HG for your fair and balanced comment. I think there’s much we agree on.
MMM

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9:27/5:22
Religious belief in the existence of God is not an example of wishful thinking. Did lack of reliable evidence in social work practice prevent you from intervening in clients lives?

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Is the episcopal mitre now a symbol of cover-up and corruption?
Deenihan’s mitre is a symbol of cover-up and corruption. Connell’s mitre will be a symbol of cover-up and corruption. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

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11:24, how many bishops will be in St Mel’s Cathedral on the 18th of June to approve of Connell’s Erroneous Episcopal Ordination? You shall know them by their fruits.

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The episcopal mitre now seems a symbol of cover up and corruption in the context of CSA debacle. If episcopal office is treated by Episcopate as a reward for more cover up and corruption the exposure of this ongoing scandalous abusiveness in the Church will be endless. They have only themselves to blame.

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2:20,
“The only way that bishops will be forced to change is when they see one of their episcopal colleagues going into prison in handcuffs.
They will then act – not because it was right – but to save their own sweaty necks.”

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6:34
Seamus, I agree 100%.
It is only a matter of time before an RCC Irish bishop(s) will be in court
to explain themselves, and the sooner the better.

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And where is Jonathan Flood who took a year out from Raphoe in 2021? Is he still on self-employed, diocese-paid salary?

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+Pat, it is interesting that it is in the Republic of Ireland you have been targeted for wearing a clerical collar and not in Northern Ireland. This may be reflective of the huge sense of disbelief followed by betrayal and horror initially experienced in the Roman Catholic Church dominated RoI when the scandals began to emerge. The response from the RC with all their ongoing cover ups and further acts of betrayal and defamation and discrediting of victims, survivors, their families and friends has firmly screwed the final nail in the RC coffin ship. They should shut up, pay up and move along. Everyone has has more than enough of their scurrilous modus operandi against anyone with legitimate questions and complaints on the Roman Catholic Church.

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Thank God for the ‘Black North’ and a largely Protestant RUC GC. No possibility of Romanists manipularing it, unlike An Garda Síochána.

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8:57:
“No possibility of Romanists manipulating it, unlike An Garda Síochána.” Now, there is one Hell of a can of worms which badly needs to be opened.

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Their inner circles have been their inner circles for decades, they weren’t shocked at all, they always knew what was going on, now they’re angry that the dogs on the streets know.

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Pat, when the abuse scandals began to manifest themselves in their horror and awfulness, there was a great shame and fear among priests for many reasons, one being the relentless tsunami of abuse, reports and the direct focus on all of us. Shame too that some of our colleagues were abusers and caused so much hurt and pain on many. Shame too that we allowed our leadrrship take a legalistic route and guide us according to their way only. When some of us spoke out against the approach by Bishops and their legal teams, we were pounced on for expressing our rage and anger. I recall being shoured at, like yourself as I walked Dublin streets. I recall the words “abuser” being graffietied on the Church walls and gates. I recall the questioning and suspicious looks given. I had no hesitation not wearing my collar except for official occasions. Otherwise it was clerical casual…Now I reflect and think the collar was a passport for some (too many) priests to win their way into families, subsequently to children…and into clubs and schools..The collar never did nor does not make me a priest in any way but it identified my way of life. The collar, unfortunately perhaps, gave us unquestioned access to too much prestige and respectability, almost as if we were beyond committing any wrong. However, it’s a bit supercilious focusing on a collar in this day and age. When I think about the hurt, damage, suffering and torment of survivors of clerical abuse, the last thing to bother me is a “collar”! The simplicity of the Jesus we profess to imitate must be weeping at out trivial concern about clerical dress. Sackcloth and ashes might be more appropriate!! God help us.

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You literally can’t turn a stone in the cult without finding abuse.
I was brought up Catholic and have met three subsequently-convicted priests. Since breaking free from its chains I haven’t met one.
Why would anyone willingly spend their lives associating with paedophiles.

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8:12 Do you know it is estimated one in twenty is a psychopath. You have a pretty good chance of meeting or passing a psychopath on the street today.

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8:24
That’s some classic demonization of mentally ill people there. Y’all don’t like it when people equate being a priest (which you can stop doing) with child abuse so there’s no need to equate abuse with having a personality disorder.
To answer your question to 8:12, I definitely know more about both abuse and mental health than you.

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9:31
Wrong. How can it be classic demonization of ‘mentally ill people’? Psychopathy is considered anti-social personality disorder. Psychiatrists are ambivalent as to whether to consider personality disorders mental illnesses. It is impossible to decide whether personality disorders are mental disorders or not, because there is no agreed definition of mental disorder. You sound extremely arrogant. I wonder why?

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8:24/11:46 Sorry to intrude reality into your comment but the highest suggested lifetime incidence of Antisocial Personality Disorder in DSM 5 is 3.3%. The only way you would have a 20% chance of meeting someone with the disorder would be in a secure psychiatric unit. That said, its sufferers are overwhelmingly male so better stay away from the clergy as well.

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9:31 & 6:07
Attempting to equate reality with figures in the DSM is laughable. The most severe cases of anti-social personality disorder or psychopathy are in secure psychiatric units or prisons. Less severe cases are walking the streets, in your neighbourhood, or place of employment. Are you aware of the historiography of psychiatry and the psychiatric industry? Read Andrew Scull, Roy Porter, or Michel Foucault for a little background reading. Did you know ‘mental illnesses’ are voted into the DSM by a group of psychiatrists. I wonder if any of these psychiatrists might have conflicts of interest? Are you aware of the role of psychiatry in the rise of Nazism? It is ironic in the extreme to make reference to ‘demonization of mentally ill’, child abuse and mental health in the same comment. Why? Because of current practices in child psychiatry in USA. These practices or ‘treatments’ will be introduced in GB and Ireland before very long. Avoid, if possible, biomedical/biological psychiatry. The biomedical model posits that mental disorders are brain diseases and emphasizes pharmacological treatment to target presumed biological abnormalities. A biologically focused approach to science, policy, and practice has dominated the American healthcare system for more than three decades.
See links for more info:https://breggin.com/Childrens-Resources-Centerhttps://breggin.com/article-detail/post_detail/peter-r-breggin

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The clerical collar remains a WITNESS to the existence of Faith and Jesus, as an INVITATION to anyone and everyone to approach a priest if they want to or need to but is now, sadly, also symbolic of abuse and covering up for corrupt criminal priests particularly in the minds of younger generations. Faith in Christ Jesus and witnessing in His name will never cease.

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The clerical collar is an invitation to everyone to approach the priest?? Have you taken leave of your senses? Tell that pretentious shite to the children raped by him. That collar signifies evil to them. Suffering and evil.

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Everyone knows what goes on in Maynooth University, nothing travels faster than clerical gossip.

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Which of the holy ones is going to be the first to say that society is the cause of the clerical collar’s signification of child abuse?

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It is not the fault of priests.
The people do not pray for their priests, who are being crucified by evil with hideous temptation.
The priest is Christ on the Cross, but his suffering is rendered unbearable because his flock abandon him.
Pity the priest.

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What is this hideous temptation the priests are being subjected to? People don’t allow their kids to be altar boys or girls anymore, few go to confession, let’s face it, these guys can’t look elsewhere for their kicks and gossip fodder. Maybe change the altars round again so they aren’t tempted when looking at congregation, stick a pair of blinkers on them. In the meantime, reasonable people will reserve their pity for those who continue to be mercilessly persecuted by this well connected Mafia.

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Replyto; Anonymoussays:
May 24, 2023 at 8:49 am
ONLY Christ on the Cross or, persona Christi when administering the sacraments. I doubt very much if that is true of a Roman Catholic priest who sexually abuses children in the Confessional.
And no reason why a Roman Catholic sexual predator priest or member of a Roman Catholic religious order should not be tried in a civil court for the crimes of paedophilia.
Flock abandon him! What about the despair the Roman Catholic child must endure when violated by some priest they trusted, what immense damage must that infringement do the a small child’s psyche?
I have no pity for a Roman Catholic priest or indeed any other sexual predator of children, they have enough time on their hands to pray for them selves, for all the good it does…
You are popping up on this blog not for the first time, with you ludicrous comments, I think just to aggravate and solicit a reaction, paedophilia is not funny and, not a joke.
A Roman Catholic priest can ask for laicization if he can’t hack the job, isn’t that what we do in secular life.

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3:42
Great post, QP.
Exactly; ‘…A Roman Catholic priest can ask for laicization if he can’t hack the job, isn’t that what we do in secular life.’

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In persona Christi. You have to laugh. Such extravagance is right up there with ‘ontological change’. A load of baloney! And while such extravagance continues, priests will maintain that pleasant sense of superiority over others, a characteristic of theirs, and a rugged sense of being owed by the laity.
This kind of language, along with priesthood itself, belongs in the trash can of history, but priests will never relinquish it, because priesthood is not, nor ever was, about Christ and about being humble servants.
Meanwhile, the kiddie-fiddling, and all the rest, will continue, too.

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5.19
You ought to be paying Pat for the opportunity to use his blog as you would a counsellor. These are themes you have been expressing for a least five years. In five years time you won’t be improved mentally or spiritually and you will still be airing them. You are a modern-day Sisyphus.

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@ 6:24
Continuous attempts to defend the indefensible is as sisyphean as you will ever find. It’s comparable to doing the same thing over and over hoping to get a different result.

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6.24

Ironically, your attempt at gaslighting the commenter at 5.19 suggests that you know his words are accurate and that you have no way of challenging them, except by the response of last resort: ad hominen.

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6:24 & 7:12 & 9:11
The penny has still not dropped. Bishop Buckley’s blog has a number of purposes. Consider the blog a blank sheet where contributors have an opportunity to project unconscious ideation on to the blog. Psychoeducation is part of the therapeutic process and in recent years has become a key component of counselling and psychotherapy. It is intended to promote a greater insight and understanding of clients specific problems, and the relationships between thinking, emotion, and behaviours. Over the past five years you, including a number of your colleagues, have been expressing the same themes but lack awareness of wider realities. Continuously attempting to defend the indefensible contrary to wider realities, is as sisyphean as you will ever find, very wearing, and unachievable. It is comparable to doing the same thing over and over hoping to get a different result. Are you stuck?

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In March, Trinity Moravian Church in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, made a stunning announcement. For pennies on the dollar, the congregation had bought up $3.3 million of medical debt belonging to 3,355 local families. With bells ringing and confetti flying, the church held a “debt burning” ceremony marking the full forgiveness of these burdens.
This life-changing feat was accomplished with a little more than $15,000 in donations, organized through the church’s Debt Jubilee Project in partnership with RIP Medical Debt, a New York-based nonprofit. Through this project and others like it, more churches in the US are coming together to create outsized relief for debt-strapped members of their communities. Church leaders say debt forgiveness is a modern, but very effective way to do good – and it has a firm basis in scripture.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/26/us/debt-jubilee-medical-trinity-moravian-cec/index.html

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Other religious denominations help vulnerable in communities & Roman Catholic Church seeks to claim credit for good works of other religions!?says:

8:44 Trinity Moravian is NOT a Roman Catholic Church. That explains their Christian approach to vulnerable members of their community.

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It’s naive to think a priest’s clerical collar symbolic of those things, Pat, especially in the ROI. Yes, there will be exceptions, but even these can end in priestly abuse.
A Magdalene girl in the ROI once absconded from one of those laundry concentration camps on foot of sexual abuse by a visiting priest only to find herself raped by the priest outside she had turned to for help.
I have stopped sending my kids to confession. I simply don’t trust priests to keep their hands off children. Jesus is the only one who can forgive sin, not a priest, and I tell my kids to confess to him alone. I know then that they will not be taken advantage of by some priest-pervert getting off on their sexual sins.
When I see that collar, I see a man with the mark of Caine on him.
Beware the priest, as you would evil.

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What is the history of the dog collar?
The term itself is abhorrent – ‘dog’ and ‘collar’ suggest submission and slavery and more than a hint, whiff even, of sadomasochism.
It is both an anachronism and symbol of superiority but also duplicity for many – yes for some too a symbol of recognition but truly, today, more than ever, a sign of contradiction but not in a good way – the contradiction of teaching of human dignity whilst raping, abusing and covering up the rape of children.

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First of all your photos are terrific Pat. It is obvious you are heavily engaged and invested in your job. Is that Bill Mulvihill on the left in the last photo??

I would say at this point to everyone under 50 in Ireland the collar is an object of at least derision and in many cases outright contempt. I can remember first year in secondary school in the mid 80s; kids were still in fear of priests and had respect for them at the time. By the time I left five years later the school priest was getting hard time from students! One guy got suspended for asking him if he wanked. Father Ted, along with all the scandals then completely changed the clergy into a total joke. You Pat however have escaped this view -because you were kicked out! You have a lot of respect and I think a big reason for that is that the RCC threw you out, which to logical people indicates you were doing something right! You have also played a very significant part in highlighting the hypocrisy, hubris, nastiness and outright stupidity of the RCC and no doubt contributed to its demise in Ireland. Father Kyne came to my house is Castleconnell one time a few years back. I cant stand betting so I gave him an awful hard time over it, something he was fond of and how exactly squandering money on nags races squared with Bible teaching. He upped and left!

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9:04 How dare you. Fr Brendan Kyne is currently celebrating his Ruby Jubilee along with Pat Gilbert, Tom Fitzpatrick and Eugene Nugent. Can a priest not take a fart now without ye going on about it. How could any person of intelligence ignore the opportunity to regularly make a few euros on the horses when we have multiple world class thoroughbreds in Limerick, Clare & Tipperary. What’s wrong with using local inside knowledge when it’s available. It harms no one. Get a life. You don’t even live in Ireland so what’s it to you. More fool Fr Kyne visiting the likes of you. Waste of time. Bet you didn’t give him a few euros for the inconvenience either.

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You can just feel the warmth can’t you.
But tell us again how it’s Vatican 2 that makes people not go to church.

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World class thoroughbreds? LOL. Mostly nags. Gambling is a waste of time and I’d love to see Fr Kyne’s overall betting account – I am sure it’s in deficit. Fools, or rather priests and their money etc.
I have spent most of my life in Ireland and have handed in a fortune in PAYE, certainly a lot more than Padre Kyne has. Thankfully am now in sunnier climes but I can assure you my overall pay in/take out account to Ireland is very definitely in the black on the government side.
Fr Kyne was visiting my mother on some sort of parish visit-everyone thingy. My mother I’m sure coughed up, she always did at mass, poor misguided woman. I always liked Father Blake, a gentleman and a really nice guy. We also had Father Underpants Hogan who was in the Sun newspaper in his Y-fronts on some gay website. Father Minogue was old school but OK. Father McCormack was the priest for the posh houses in Ahane and the Back Road, a pretentious gobshite if ever there was one. Also Phonsie taught in Castleconnell NS so to be fair ”the village” has contributed a fair amount of scandal down the years.

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11:47 does this explain why Fr Fitzgerald knew his carry on would be accommodated in Killaloe. It was all going fine and dandy before he lost the run of himself and tried to snare a good looking bird in a big house and then lost his bottle or dropped his bag of chips or whatever the hell went on there. If he’d stuck within the town of Ennis, he’d have been grand and Fintan could have played dumb. Fintan and his colleagues are good at playing dumb when it doesn’t suit their own self interested narrative.

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@11:47. You clearly know less about horses than Fr Kyne. You’d be hard pushed to find a nag of the four legged variety in Killaloe, plenty 2 legged ones consumed by jealously, and displaying evidence of failures to let go of decades long grudges but few 4 legged nags. Do keep up Toddy or have you got a touch of sunstroke.

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1:55
So there’s plenty 2 legged ones consumed by jealousy!
Are you speaking from experience? Do tell please…

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@1.55 is that you GF? Sounds like one of your efforts.
Any updates for us? Any wimmin on the go at the moment?

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4:13 a leopard doesn’t change its spots, some don’t even bother to change their hunting ground.

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Collar stands for; I’m a freeloader, gay, always on the prowl, egotistical, and of course a religious and believing man (of oneself)

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9.33: A most unkind and hate filled comment. Do you include all clerics, including Pat? You’re an inciter of hatred. Go and wash yourself clean.

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11:29 when you’ve cleaned up your own doorstep, someone might consider listening to you. Until then, suck it up buttercup. You’re reaping what you’ve sown. Do the crime, do da time. Simples.

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They are everywhere. I was at Oscott, and a contemporary, David Goodstadt, was convicted. Joe Quigley taught at Oscott, now convicted. I visited Cheadle on a free Wednesday and had lunch with its PP, Bede Walsh, now convicted.

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Actually I’d be interested in your impression of Bede Walsh. I used to serve mass for him at St Chad’s and always felt like you never really got an impression of a personality. I found it really strange and have never come across that with anyone else, even convicted paedophiles. I put it down to him being private, or distant, or just not liking me, at the time. Of course in retrospect it seems sinister but I had no indication of him being an abuser -i was an adult at the time so wouldn’t have attracted CSA from him.

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Bede Walsh was a pretentious homosexual with airs and graces. He reminded me somewhat of Christopher Biggins, posh, chubby, rather effete, large bright spectacles. He wore outlandish socks and colourful v-neck pullovers with his clerical collar. He was a bit like a 1980s children’s TV presenter, but he had a chilling and somewhat distant gaze – he was a contradiction, personable, and aloof. Maybe a psychopath? I visited with a classmate who was a student at Cotton when Walsh was chaplain. The guy’s parents had also taught at Cotton and lived in the parish. The seminarian ran the place, and Bede seemed to indulge him. He was moderately handsome, and I wonder with hindsight whether something had gone on between them. McKinney eventually booted him out of Oscott for homosexuality.

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List of Birmingham sexual predators and criminals as long as your arm – it’s a dangerous diocese with a long dark history and no doubt today they are some sinister clergy among their ranks – the best cover up merchants in the UK
Dwyer and Couve were a nightmare- Couve definitely a gay man with skeletons and a complex about being an aristocrat and Penny and Taylor, Clonlan and Flahive in his watch.
Elsie and Tolkein
Longley – Jollie and Quigley
Birmingham have more to give on the scandal front – the gift that keeps on giving but yes a cesspit of a diocese – seeds of corruption and no longer fooling the people all of the time.

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I’m in contact with Walsh and I’d say remains arrogant and manipulative and cultivates a sense of how own importance- seem oblivious to his crime and hope he doesn’t come before the parole board for some time.
Caught on a train watching child porn remarkably brazen – very dangerous sexual criminal and a dearly loved brother priest of the Birmingham clergy especially Aldo Romero Tapparro).

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I don’t know if anyone has seen the letter which Donald Trump got his personal injury lawyer (no decent one will touch him) to send to the attorney general whining that he’s not being treated fairly.
It is strikingly similar to the moaning of the cathbots here: ‘Its not fair to blame us because of our prolific abuse, you’re persecuting us!’ Then trying to get ISP to close down bishop Buckley’s blog is asking to see the manager. 😂

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The fear which comes up (it was palpable in the posts about Portsmouth clergy performance management) whenever psychiatry or psychology come up here is incredibly telling. Or rather I should say the clergy’s understanding of these disciplines which is of course a lay understanding. LOL
I have myself seen a psychologist for a number of sessions in the past and found it very helpful.
Why would you have such angst at the idea of delving into how you think and can change that to improve your life?

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1.06pm
Jesus was criticised for the friends he kept and the company he kept – remember my dear friend that Jesus said when we visit a prisoner we visit him.
Oh the joy that Gods sun shines on everyone righteous and unrighteous.

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Are Irish bishops still holding the annual tokenistic light a candle for victims of abuse in their cathedrals? How farcical considering last December the Irish bishops conference acknowledged a reckoning on abuse in the Irish catholic church has yet to occur. These same bishops are obviously continuing to cover-up the full extent of abuse, cover-up, and numbers of victims abused by members of the clerical fraternity. Which leads me to wonder what is the true picture of clerical abuse in Ireland? Is it necessary for every diocese in Ireland to be independently investigated to determine the entire truth of abuse to citizens? If so, any costs incurred can be paid by the Irish catholic church to the Irish State. Either the Irish hierarchy do business or get off the proverbial potty. The days of forked tongue, religious platitudes and empty sounding hollow apologies are over. You cannot serve two masters.

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Exactly – there has been no real atonement. Just candle lighting and business as usual when covering it up.

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The auld collar harness or help. In ireland I never liked the collar because it did not represent who I am. Now Im not bothered it is part of a uniform. Like Police doctors and everyone else we are collered with the weight of the past as well as the hope of the future. How do I exercise my role in the context of who I am?

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POPE SENDS VATICAN OFFICIAL TO BOLIVIA AS ABUSE ALLEGATIONS ESCALATE
LA PAZ (Bolivia)
Associated Press [New York NY]
May 22, 2023
By Carlos Valdez
LA PAZ, Bolivia (AP) —” Pope Francis has sent one of his top sex crimes investigators to Bolivia at a time when the Andean nation is being shaken by an escalating pedophilia scandal involving priests. Monsignor Jordi Bertomeu, a leading member of the church’s Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, arrived in Bolivia on the same day as a former Jesuit seminarian landed in the country vowing to reveal more information about alleged cases of abuse.”
https://apnews.com/article/bolivia-church-abuse-bertomeu-lima-f27e34b01a9e27721f61e382ec5e7940

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On the subject of being antisocial, the UN quoted Elon Musk a relatively small sum it would take to end world hunger for the foreseeable future – six or seven billion dollars as I remember.
He didn’t do it and in a burst of total psychopathy blew $44 billion dollars on Twitter before losing a lot of it through tanking the value of the company.
My question here would be does the Catholic church have that sum in its reserves or property it could sell to end world hunger? I think it does.
So why doesn’t it? If you have the resources to end hunger and don’t do it how psychopathic is that?
The other question of course is whether you can be described as pro-life if you can stop them starving to death but don’t do so.
It’s also the least they could do after all the abuse, and incidentally if it means they have no resources left (they would though) it would essentially end future lawsuits because there’s no point suing someone with no assets.
It’s almost like the church is looking after number 1.

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6.00: A very biased perception of reality. If you do your research properly, you’ll discover that in all the poorest slums of the world – in Africa and South America particularly – the Church, through various charities and religious orders is helping hugely to alleviate the suffering of millions. This fact and truth are recognised by the EU countries and many governments. Some of the highest awards that countries can give have been awarded to Catholic religious and lay personnel for their work with the poor, marginalised and forgotten of this world. Could the Church do more? Undoubtedly it could. This Lent just gone, our TROCAIRE boxes to date have brought in almost E9,000, and that’s excluding schools. May I ask you: have you contributed to any charity to help them alleviate poverty, hardship, hunger or degradation in our world? Here are some charities that may interest you: Trocaire, Concern. Cafod, Caritas: Goal, Neil Mellon Trust, Hope Foundation, Urish Missiinary Union…you’ll not be short of these and many other Church organisations to make a donation if you so choose…In all parishes there is a St. Vincent de Paul Society whose outreach as a Catholic charity is lauded and supported by many. So, the church does respond and where I work, last year alone, through donations to the Charity Box, over E10,000 was given to the Simon Community, Fr. Peter McVerry, Br. Kevin, Alice Leahy TRUST, ALONE and to local families in poverty. There is much charity in our Catholic parish communities! Believe me.

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8.31: I don’t hink you’re too bothered in being charitable. The Church is doing great charitable works all over the world. It can do more, yes, but so should all the rich nations of the world. There’s sufficient resources to share if governments choose to make the proper decisions. The Church makes a hugely significant contribution to alleviating poverty. Incidentally, you haven’t said anything about your charitable efforts…Why not ? Enough said – semantics won’t solve hunger.

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9:51 I’m not, no. But you would think the holy church of Christ would provide leadership to the world instead of continually adverting to civil governments as you do.
Who is the light set on the hill? Them or you?
Make up your minds, because you’re expecting the world’s governments to lead you and, incidentally, doing exactly what I accused you of, ie preserving your own privilege.

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Anyone would think the church alleviate poverty rather than ending it because otherwise there wouldn’t be a feel good role for the church.
What’s the matter? Worried if you put yourselves out of business it will precipitate the final judgement and then you’ll find out the criticism you get on here is very mild?

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8.54: A usual reply by a cynic to justify nit wanting to help others in any way. If you’ve difficulty supporting these charities, go out to the community, keep your eyes open and when you see beggars or homeless people, stop, help and show your CHARITY and COMPASSION. Stop finding excuses not to give….

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9:45
It is amazing how replies to some comments ‘grow legs’. I know from direct involvement with a number of charities and NGOs.

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9:45 many people who could spare a little to give can no longer afford to do so in this cost of living crisis. St Vincent de Paul and other charities have reported that people who donated in the past are now coming to them for help. The situation in Ireland has been gradually getting worse since the Celtic Tiger economic crash.

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Distinctive dress for clerics outside the liturgy is a relatively modern phenomenon in the church’s history. Personally prefer they maintain it So I can avoid conversing or sitting next to them. It’s a good warning sign.

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A priest’s “blessing”? What might that even mean? For the uneducated Catholic and the superstitious : everything, and nothing at all.😆

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