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DID JESUS INTEND / INSTITUTE THE PRIESTHOOD?

Matthew 28:19-20:

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Biography Dr Brant Pitre

Dr. Brant Pitre is Distinguished Research Professor of Scripture at the Augustine Institute, Graduate School of Theology. He earned his Ph.D. in Theology from the University of Notre Dame, where he specialized in the study of the New Testament and ancient Judaism. He is the author of the best-selling books, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist (Image, 2011), The Case for Jesus (Image, 2015), and Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary (Image, 2018). He is also author of Jesus and the Last Supper (Eerdmans, 2015), co-author with John Bergsma of A Catholic Introduction to the Bible: The Old Testament (Ignatius, 2018), and co-author with Michael P. Barber and John Kincaid of Paul, a New Covenant Jew (Eerdmans, 2019). Dr. Pitre has also produced dozens of video and audio Bible studies, in which he explores the biblical foundations of Catholic faith and theology (available at BrantPitre.com). He currently lives in Louisiana with his wife Elizabeth and their five children.

PAT SAYS

It is clear to me from the Scriptures that Jesus gathered a group of individuals around him – the TWELVE, the SEVENTY. a group of WOMEN.

The Twelve and the Seventy were sent out to BAPTISE and make DISCIPLES of all nations.

So, people were “set aside” from the “general population” to do certain things at the command of Jesus.

The Twelve did establish Christian communities in various places and it is clear that in these communities, “elders” and / or “overseers” were either appointed or emerged.

In the very early Church, we see the emergence of “overseers” (episcopi), “elders,” and very clearly, deacons.

These “offices” became more necessary as the community grew and various heresies emerged there was need to have “authorities” to refute them and maintain the faith

At this stage, the early Church was operating in response to the commands of Jesus:

1. To go out and baptise and evangelise.

2. To celebrate the Eucharist in memory of him.

3. To serve all – as communicated to the apostles with the washing of feet.

While these commands were for all , they did necessitate the intimate involvement, work, and guidance of the emerging overseers, elders, and deacons.

It was in this context that the episcopate, priesthood, and diaconate evolved.

To me, that evolution was perfectly authentic and according to the mind, command spirit of Jesus.

PROBLEMATIC DEVELOPMENTS

For priesthood, I think the rot set in when, under Constantine, the Christian religion became the state religion, and bishops and priests took on a civic authority as well as religious or spiritual authority.

That continued to develop into bishops in the early and late middle ages, becoming political rulers and land holders, etc.

The development of the Papacy was another unhelpful development, with the bishop of Rome becoming the emperor of the West.

CONCLUSION

I do not think that the priesthood per se is the problem.

The problem lies in what men did to the priesthood – turning it from servant-hood into an elite “ruling” caste and class.

For us Christians, the challenge is to discover urgent and real ways to make our modern church like the early church.

Can that be done?

Perhaps.

But vested interests like ROME and its episcopal and priest elites will oppose that tooth and nail.

The way forward may be small groups of Christians meeting in each others homes as “disciples”?

All of us need to distinguish between the ESSENTIALS and the ACCIDENTALS.

We need to throw away the “dirty water” but keep the “baby.”

138 replies on “DID JESUS INTEND / INSTITUTE THE PRIESTHOOD?”

Debate on the origins, nature and relevance of the priesthood which focuses on what Jesus intended is reliant on the basic assumption that Jesus was God.
Without definitive proof and evidence to support that assumption I view a debate on priesthood, especially by clerics, as simply an attempt at justifying their existence.
MMM

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12.23; 8.07; and 10.50 miss the point. It’s a scientific historical question that may be answered correctly by believer and unbeliever alike. All that’s required is historical knowledge and a scientific method.

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11:21 Yet you present no evidence or science, merely criticise MMM.
This must mean, by your own reckoning, that you have neither historical knowledge nor scientific method.

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@11:36. If you’re a regular reader here you’ll know I claim little by way of historical knowledge or scientific method. I’m simply one who considers the evidence and questions what seems factually unreliable.
Some people don’t like that and prefer to maintain comfort zones.
MMM

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11:55
So maybe you need to acquire more historical knowledge without getting bamboozled.It is good to stretch oneself academically. Why not listen to more of Dr. Brant Pitre videos on Youtube.

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David, yet goats are regarded as invaluable in clearing out unwanted scrub in otherwise useless land.
Perhaps that’s a relevant metaphor?
MMM

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Stop the rot. Shut up, pay up, do the crime, do the time. Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. Prove it.

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@12:47: It’s when believers claim that they alone posses “the truth”, and, via clerical control, especially on young impressionable minds, that I question their faith, and contingent right to foist it on others, particularly through control of educational facilities.
You use the term “slam”, and link it to ‘people’. It’s the “faith” I question, not the people per se.
As regards individuals attempting to validate their faith and persuade me to accept it, their manifest and weak inability makes me wonder what is the opposite of the term ” Slam dunk”
MMM

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12.33: Bur, MMM, (resurrected), I do believe in GOD, I do believe in Jesus and I believe in the values, principles, teachings and vision of life he has given us and which have influenced music, art, architecture, philosophy, humanities, literature. For me faith was always a given but not without its doubts and questioning. Why do you always feel the need to slam people of faith? Is it the new “religion” of materialism, consumerism or humanism, apart from your atheism? Respect for other people’s belief system is not much to ask of you, us it? Incidentally, I don’t have to apologise for or justify my Catholic Christian faith…

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This issue is important – the ‘local’ power of bishops who run their own little kingdom and if they want to hold back info on abusing clergy they will do what it takes to achieve that. Among lots of other issues as well, Diocesan priests will obey the bishop and of course the few ‘faithful’ left will listen.

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I seriously can’t understand how Irish government can come up with the figure of €800 million when they hadn’t started negotiations with the religious orders. They should be going after the church for the full amount of at least €800 mil and the government should also pay €800 mil. What they are offering now is a disgrace and insulting and re-traumatizing.

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The Irish State is far too lenient on white collar criminals. Clerics and their professional colleagues appear to be part of an “untouchable elite in Irish Society”. Cute hoorism incorporated.

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Wolves in sheep’s clothing have infested the Church and are in most ranks of the Hierarchy. It has been continuously pointed out an ordinand promises obedience to his Bishop, not to Christ Jesus. What if the ordinand’s Bishop is a wolf in sheep’s clothing? What if his Bishop is a crooked Bishop in a predominately crooked Episcopate? Where does such a situation leave the newly ordained priest, priests of the Diocese of a crooked Bishop, or the remaining Faithful of the Diocese? Or, what if a crooked Bishop has little or no belief in the existence of God, but is rather, a clerical functionary- a noisy gong or clanging cymbal but has no charity, -neither for God, nor man, or his flock?

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‘What if his Bishop is a crooked Bishop in a predominately crooked Episcopate?’
They would say that that wouldn’t change his obedience and that tells us all we need to know.
Despite clerics telling us ad nauseam that they wouldn’t need to obey bad or immoral orders, nonetheless the entire hierarchy covered up crime for decades on the orders of Rome.
QED

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9:18
Do priests in the Irish Catholic Church or their Bishops still not realise child sexual abuse and the Catholic Church have become inexorably linked within Western popular culture and consciousness?
Do they not realise a significant shift in public opinion has taken place in which their moral authority including their cultural capital, for example in education, has diminished? The religious capital of Ireland – the institutional resources, knowledge, and skills, including financial resources is dwindling.
The Catholic Church no longer has a monopoly on morality in Ireland. In the context of appointments to the Irish Episcopate are appointments to the Irish Episcopate to be based on rewarding corruption? Are we going to see a future headline in one of Irelands prominent newspapers “Forgive me sinners, for I am corrupt”? Irish Catholic priests can no longer hide behind faux ignorance or blindly follow orders of their lordships.

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9:18 are there any straight Bishops left or are they all crooks, hoors and swindlers?

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The current state of corruption and universal dysfunction within the Roman Catholic priesthood leads one to conclude that something more drastic than mere reform or renewal is required.
Hebrews suggests that the incarnation and cross obviated the need for priesthood- there is only one High Priest who is both Priest and Victim.
The key is found in the early church where numerous ministries are referred to but not priesthood- yes apostles and elders but NOT one celibate male who is the fount of all sacramental grace which clearly is nonsense and misguided.
If the servant nature of ministry was accentuated many would leave and few would have a vocation.
Plus the celibate charism isn’t a grace but a management tool which has fuelled homosexuality (widespread and active) and sexual child abuse.

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If he had intended to transfer the previous covenant’s priesthood to the new covenant we would have a record of it. We would have ministerial priesthood clearly described in Acts. The whole point of Roman Catholicism, that the whole faith is in the original deposit of faith, would surely necessitate something resembling priesthood in the early years but there just isn’t.

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Jesus certainly did not intend clericalism. I think a huge stride forward could be made if the Pope abolished clerical dress and seminaries, and divested itself of its artistic treasures.

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9:18
I take your point, but clericalism is not simply dress or abolishing seminaries, although the current model of formation is utterly toxic. Clericalism is more attitudes, beliefs about role, assumptions based on such beliefs, subliminal notions resulting from formation, power, inherited religious ideas based on religious ideology to bolster power,etc. ‘Lay clerics’ can be far worse than priests.

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The hint is in the name: church of Rome. Therefore the reason priests’ ritual dress is Roman is priesthood is one of many things taken directly from Roman paganism, which would date priesthood fourth century or later.

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9.57
Historical fallacy. The so-called Roman collar differentiated Latin, i.e. Western or Roman rite from Eastern.

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RC is nothing more than a devils cult. Clerics and henchmen and women have repeatedly been discovered having spent decades covering up for all manner of abuse, corruption and criminality.

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Well I’m disappointed. When I saw this post last night I was looking forward to waking up and seeing all the evidence posted by the Romans that Jesus started their priesthood. But they haven’t posted any.
Wonder why that is.

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@11:34
Either Jesus did institute the priesthood but the current ‘good for our day’ clerical caste are too ashamed to put their necks above the parapet due to all you know whatsits under wraps, or, Jesus did not institute the priesthood, the Constantine circus is in its closing act, so the clerical caste don’t want to jeopardize hay making while the sun still shines. Simples.

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And, @ 11.34, you will continue to be disappointed in seeking any sensible response from the RCC circus. Mind you its clerical clowns regularly banjax their relevance and credibility by their behaviour, and certainly their failure to provide any coherent comment in response to relevant questions on this blogsite.
MMM

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2:56
What basic assumptions did you and your colleagues in social work adopt during the 1970s-2000 when you practised as a social worker? Which empirically provable models of intervention did you use in social work practice? I’m curious to know considering you earned your livelihood in what many people call meddling in other people’s lives as ‘soft police officers’ albeit on behalf of the State. Please, don’t disapoint me.

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@3:33. I will continue to disappoint you by refusing to debate on this blog the merits or otherwise of any profession other than those directly associated with and dependent on religious beliefs. I easily recognise your troll like constant references to social work as attempted deflection and having acknowledged you may well be a slow learner, I won’t even bother guiding you to any critique concerning social care matters .
But do feel free to disparage me,…..if it makes you feel better.
MMM

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5:47
You’ve lived up to my expectations. Can I point out to you, again, there are religious professional social work practitioners. I am not a troll. I am not trying to deflect. Your ad hominem attack speaks for itself. I can easily guide you to various models of social work interventions, including marxist, feminist or humanistic interventions to social work practice, and more. I mentioned this before on this blog; I find it very odd, a team leader social work practitioner has little or nothing to say on child sexual abuse on a blog which focuses on abuse corruption and crime in the catholic church in Ireland and Internationally. Instead you seek proof for the existence of God! If you already know God doesn’t exist why bother seeking proofs? I do not disparage people to score points. I can take disparagement from people. It was part of my training as a therapist. Oh, by the way, I happen to believe in the existence of God.

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The commentator at 3:33 regularly harps on negatively about social workers. He obviously doesn’t understand that what SWs do is highly prescribed by the state and much determined by available resources like care facilities. In that respect, SWs are merely functionaries of the state, soft police if you like, and the key decisions are made by the courts.

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8:02
Is commentator @ 2:56 unable to speak for himself? I wonder do you know or understand much about social work practice. What key decisions are made by the courts? You are wittingly or unwittingly highlighting one of many inherent contradictions in social work. A significant amount of professional social work involves team meetings, workshops, attending reviews, case conferences, travel expenses, etc, all funded by the State. The do-gooders ‘soft police’ are very well paid for being do-gooders. Why are social workers or social work community centres located in particular geographical locations than more affluent locations? In order to make more financial resources available, I suggest less pay for the over paid professionals, an army of functionaries of the State, earning their livelihoods off the backs of more disadvantaged social groups in society.

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8.57…..your very questions display your own ignorance and ……well to put it kindly, hardly merit answering

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Pat someone claimed yesterday that they were gang raped by a bunch of Dominicans and I think I know who the victim is. They confided in me around 20 years ago and I promised not to disclose to anyone, but if he reaches out to me I would like to have contact with him again.

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If you reached out to every victim of gang rape by religious orders you wouldn’t have enough time in a decade

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12:01 a separate police force focussing on RC related abuse, corruption and criminality is badly needed.

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3.33: A well constructed response to repetitive MMM , who continually refuses to answer legitimate questions about the methodology he and his associate professionals were taught or used to avoid their full moral and ethical responsibilities in protecting children in “care”. Only yesterday I met with a parent who cried for help in relation to his son who requires very professional care. He’s knocked on every door. His child is presently in a care centre but is to be moved elsewhere shortly, where the level of care needed won’t be provided. The reason: a bed is required for someone “worse”..The social worker seems to be just following diktats from HSE and he’s been assigned a solicitor by TUSLA…Imagine – we know where his allegiance lies! Only recently this 13 year old went missing for a week only to be found carrying drugs from one place to the next in the centre of Dublin City. And the father is told he’ll be fine.. Its outrageous that the social worker system is so negligent and shortsighted. I witnessed rhe arrogance of social workers and psychiatrists in treating my sister with depression.. Their approach ruined and destroyed her. Absolutely until at a meeting which I asked for I challenged the attitude “she’s not capable of getting better”. I ripped the so called professionals apart and asked for a new psychiatrist and social worker and threatened to go public about all I had observed over 3 years. Shortly thereafter, a lady psychiatrist was found, a new care residence (a home setting), and new therapies given. My sister made wonderful recovery because for the first time in a her years of depression this doctor saw her as a “human being” capable of being healed and finding new life again. So, MMM, you ARE a lightning rod for everything that was rotten in social care services in your time and which still is today. Just listen to the stories told daily on radio. Just suck up the legitimate criticisms about your former, handsomely well paid profession of ruining the lives of many parents, children and families.

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7:12
The almoner or social work circus is only approx 120 years old. I hope your sister maintained her recovery and is keeping well.

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6.34: An excellent riposte to dreary MMM’s continued repetitions. Exactly as you say, if he doesn’t believe in GOD, why be so insistent on proof for GOD.? MMM, learn to respect other people’s religious perspectives and belief system. They don’t concur with yours, so don’t worry yourself. We can cope with our beliefs: they’re not a burden. Now off to bed: it’s past your bedtime…although we thought you died some time ago as this blog reported!!

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10:04. Think you’ll find he doesn’t respect religious perspectives which intrusively impose beliefs through control and indoctrination. Thus his questioning their veracity. And why should religion be exempt from honest scrutiny?

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11 53: Mary Mc wouldn’t have opened her mouth but for her gay son. She went all apoplectic during the marriage equality referendum. For a woman who once bowed before Bishops, kissed arses, rings and what not and who turned up to every Catholic parish she could, her vicious anti priest rhetoric is shameful and way OTT. it’s ugly. Mary Robinson was and is much more a stateswoman that Moaning Mc could ever be.

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Lets not go down Mary R route please. Stick to today’s topic. Do refrain from rude and crude, it’s unbecoming of Christian discourse.

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1.07: So true but kets leave Mc Angry to her nastiness. We’ve had enough of her preaching.

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1.07
Those were times when little if anything was widely known aboit CSA and systemic corruption in the Church. We’ve all learned a lot since then, including Mary McAleese, and it has shaped our attitudes towards the Church.
Mary McAleese has moved on from those deferential times. Why don’t you?

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2:51
Nonsense. Those so called deferential times were not as deferential as you would like people to believe. The church has not learnt enough. You lot are still on a learning curve.

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Anon at 1.07pm
To be fair to Mary Mac bec she carry a lot of burden cos her two sons are gay plus her deaf brother as well.
But I would agree with some of your comments there being a hypocrite kissing Bishop rings et al before she knew her sons are gays. She can’t have it in both ways or she has to go alone blasting rcc which she’s still doing it now . Fair play to her.
I remember my time in 1st school where I noticed 4 young deaf schoolboys acting as feminine or act like a woman. These 4 boys now adults/men are gays as they came out of their closet (they did announced it around informally).

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Anon@1:07. I see a parallel between Mary Mac’s journey of understanding and my own. As a young man I was very unquestioning of religion and deferential to RCC clergy.
Not now. As regulars here know, I now question virtually all of the religious gobbledygook I was fed as a child. My quest for truth and reliable information has caused the “scales to fall from my eyes.”
Perhaps Mary too has had her eyes opened, …..clerical child abuse; financial scandals, and worst of all, hierarchical cover-ups.
Could it be that she now realises how naively misguided she was, and, in her own way, seeks to advocate the truth as she now sees it?
No harm in that, and fair play I say.
MMM

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11.53: She would say that, wouldn’t she? She became a rabid catholic feminist after her presidency..tut, tut..

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How many priests enjoy being in the priesthood? How many believe Jesus set it up? How many of them have caravans on presbytery grounds?

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Noel Treanor was the worst bishop I have ever encountered, a lazier man you could not wish to meet. The excuses he would have made up for his terrible clergy behaviour.

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12.08
His current post will suit Archbishop Treanor so. Another two and a half years on an ambassador’s salary.

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Treanor was and is a desk priest. Priests should not be ordained to sit at desks.

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By Post Author

Clerics and their cohorts are manipulating the justice system and taking advantage of the current circumstances.

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12 20: Tell us how we are taking advantage of and manipulating the justice system? Tell us. I’d be interested in your analysis and proof.

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I hear that Bishop Peter Collins(aka Dick Emery) has banned the Latin Mass from all chapels in Walsingham Shrine. RN is not happy.

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Nothing is heard of prayer. The city state is just psychoanalysing – “holy” Father, “holy” Mother, and baby’s unmentionables in nappies – and denying us the right to meaning.

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1:26
They probably cannot give what they have not got other than analysis and caca. Meaning is core to existence.

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Pat, It is clear that Jesus established a leadership structure. This was to be based on loving service after his own example. Sadly this has developed into a power structure and the loving service component has been supplanted by domination and self-service. This is harldy surprising in an institution as old as the Church, but I think that the Lord has his own ways of bringing about reform. The present vocations famine is putting the church back in the hands of the faithful. Deo Gratias!

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1.49: Pat, you speak of servantship structure often. Where in your oratory is this evident since you do not officially have any recognisable structure? I think you are trying to defend the “PRIESTHOOD” you enjoy as a Bishop. I’d describe the ministry I try to live as one where, with parishioners, we work together. I never make any decisions without discussing them first with various groups, Pastoral Council being the first call and then the wider community. Servant style – yes. I believe priesthood as a way of life and service needs a thorough redefinition and renewal – for all who are “priest or bishop”. The present definition is redundant.

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I work very closely with my small and intimate congregation, and we make all decisions about The Oratory together.

I agree on the need for of a thorough redefinition etc

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By Post Author

Leadership structure does not equate to priesthood.
The functions of agape meal, and baptism, were not the preserve of the Apostles: remember Jesus sent out his disciples, a much wider and more numerous group than the Twelve, to preach, teach, heal, and, likely, to baptise, as well. Among this wider group, there would almost certainly have been women, to minister to other women.
Jesus’ egalitarian vision of ministry was destroyed when an all-male priesthood, deeply mysogynistic, eventually arose.

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You have completely ignored Hebrews, Pat, which clearly indicates the redundancy of priesthood through Jesus’ death and resurrection. So, how can the reemergence of priesthood be in line with Jesus’ will?
The NT makes clear that Jesus fulfilled the functions levitical priesthood could not (namely, atonement for sin), which is why it likens Jesus to the High Priest.
Logically, if those functions were fulfilled by Jesus, then priesthood is inarguably redundant : unnecessary.
It’s reemergence calls into question the salvific efficacy of Jesus’ self-sacrificial accomplishments for humankind, which is a blasphemy. This, too, is hardly in line with Jesus’ will.

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In Hebrews it is the priesthood of Aaron and Levi that is ended.
Not the priesthood of Melchisadek, which Jesus had and wished to share with others.

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That your honouring a mythical pagan priest, Melchizadek, at Vespers of a Sundayevening does not surprise me in the least, because priesthood has more to do with this than with the historical Jesus.

Whatever the specific origin of priesthood, it cannot be traced to Christ, since his death and resurrection obviated it.

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3.16
Melchizedek is likely not a historical figure, anymore than Adam, Noah (including his ark), and Abraham were. It seems more than a little strange to premise an argument for priesthood on such a shifting sand of evidence.
Besides, the biblical (not historical) figure, Melchizedek, is clearly a pagan priest, a Canaanite, and, therefore, served a pagan god, not the monotheistic God of Abraham. The fact that the story (and I emphasise the word ‘story’) has Abraham honour the pagan and pantheistic Melchizedek, partly by way of a hefty tithe, renders the account all the more fantastical.

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4.58
Melchizedek is described as a priest of Elyon, i.e. God Most High. In Psalm 91 this is a title applied to God. And, of course, Melchizedek makes an appearance innPsalm 110 which we recite ever Sunday of the year at Vespers.

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5:19 Nice try.
Melchizedek was totally not a priest of YHWH.
Hint: his name.
If you try to make him so you miss the point of the story where despite not being a priest of the god of Israel he gets involved in salvation history at an important point.
And El just means god generically, cf how Arabic-speaking Christians will use the word Allah for God.

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6.17
Your dogmatic stance doesn’t suit biblical studies, and a narrative interpretative methodology in particular. There are more than one point to a story. My copy of the Jewish Study Bible, edited and translated by Jewish scholars refers to Melchizedek as priest of God Most High. “And King Melchizedek of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was a priest of God Most High. He blessed him saying “Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.” The editor interprets this as “The LORD (YHWH) responding (through the mouth of Melchizedek) with a renewed promise of staggering proportions.”

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4.39
Mythical is dismissed by you as not true. That’s to misunderstand the concept.

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6.54
Dogmatic? Well yes, about truth.
Salem was in Canaan when Abraham, according to Genesis, crossed paths with its king and priest, Melchizedek.(Em, we’ll let the latter, ‘priest’, slide, for now, since JEWISH priesthood atually wasn’t instituted until the time of Arron, which was much later).
As all this happened in Canaan, and the Canaanites were pagans (pantheists) and given the biblical fact that Jewish priesthood hadn’t yet been established, then Melchizedek’s priesthood could only have been Canaanite, and pagan. References to his serving the most high god could, logically, mean only the supreme god of the Canaanite pantheon.

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Salem more commonly known as Jeru Salem.
The opinion of a renowned Jewish scholar trump Google and Wiki everytime.

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9.57
That’s amusing. “Yes but at a later stage.” Really? Geographical and historical anomalies there. Melchizedek is not historical, you opine. If so, the categories of ‘later’ or ‘earlier’ are a nonsense. That’s without even unpacking your thoughts on Salem’s being transported. An earlier instance of Shakespeare’s Birnam Wood’s moving of Macbeth fame.

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6.17
The reception of the priesthood of Melchizedek is well attested in Late Antiquity. And
“The sacrifice of Abraham our father in faith;
And the bread and wine offered by YOUR priest, Melchizidek.” Eucharistic Prayer I.

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7.57
You define myth as ‘not real’. That is not the only meaning of the word. And in the case of Genesis 1-11, not the more relevant or appropriate.
The Oxford Dictionary’s definition is apposite in its description of myth as a story from ancient times, especially one that was told to explain natural events or to describe the early history of a people; this type of story frequently involves supernatural entities.
Myth is evidence of how a phenomenon was understood at a historical period. The interpretive question is “What does it mean “

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If Deaf Guy has any information about the tragic death of Christopher Salford he needs to go to the PSNI immediately. He of all people should know about the importance of reporting criminal activity to the correct authorities.

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How many people in NI have actually been abused by a priest? I was, my mum was. And that’s only in one family. We became atheists because of the abuse we were put thru.

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The accent is on the wrong thing – where in the NT does it say the essence, nay source and summit isn’t discipleship or martyrdom but the priesthood, whatever you do you’ve got to get men to vow lifelong celibacy and swear allegiance to the bishop for that is why Jesus came for no other reason than the Roman Catholic priesthood – it doesn’t because the cult is about priesthood Christianity is about Jesus.
Yes but Melchizedek didn’t exist in a real sense he is one of those mysterious characters that pop up once or twice in the OT – if there is a priesthood it’s the priesthood of believers not the elite shambles we have today!!

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I agree with you.
Priesthood is defended through reliance on a person who not only probably didn’t exist, but was actually a pagan priest, serving the supreme god of his pantheon.

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Say a prayer for my father please, he is lying on a ward in the rvh in the corridor and he is confused at the best of times, thank you. NHS is not fit for purpose anymore

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Prayers are with you and yours Lucy. I hope he pulls through. I agree that a corridor is no place to treat an elderly gentleman or even a baby.

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How can anyone hurt a child? Shame on these priests, they should all rot in hell.

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Shannon you have a damn cheek to talk about hurting children, aren’t you an advocate for abortion and smacking children?

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Are you the one who is currently on trial for multiple baby deaths? Using that name is not right at the moment. There have been complaints before.
So much for keeping on topic.

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3.52: I’ve just got very depressed…with RN’s analysis..Hell, why did you do this? S**t. Better find my xanax!

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5:10
Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse
When you’re chewing on life’s gristle
Don’t grumble, give a whistle
And this’ll help things turn out for the best
And
Always look on the bright side of life
Always look on the light side of life
If life seems jolly rotten
There’s something you’ve forgotten
And that’s to laugh and smile and dance and sing
When you’re feeling in the dumps
Don’t be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle, that’s the thing
And
Always look on the bright side of life
(Come on)
Always look on the right side of life

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Who is the A1 priest that went up and down the country and is well known to offer oral services to truckers etc?

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6.03: Thanks! I’ve thrown the xanaz away!! But when I saw the hells angel like image of RN in one corner and the Bishop’s mighty teeth jumping out at me, I knew I would convulse..If only the two men would find better dress and postures…!!

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Some of you may know that I was involved in new age. One of them was past life or in other words’ reincarnation via regression ‘. I have had a reading from my past lives. To my surprise that I was a priest in many lives as I didn’t think it was possible. Initially it was difficult to understand nor comprehend it at first but later over the years I realised its a joke.

Some of the most dangerous one that allows evil to enter you inside or anybody is ‘reiki’ or transcendental mediation or ‘seance’ (medium).

Its hell a lot easier for them (evil spirits) to enter them( you or anybody) if you ALLOW it to enter but it’s a bloody and mightly difficult to get them out of your system. It took me ages to get it out. For my advice, dont do it, otherwise you may find yourself at deep s**t or deep end.

Its a struggle for me to get them out as its TLM which helped me to get them out of me in shorter time frame than the new mass (NO).

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Hello, DG.
Are you still wrestling with demons? Reiki, transcendental mediation or ‘seance’ (medium) particularly spiritualism are very dangerous. A deep spiritual life regularly receiving the sacraments including daily Eucharist will keep demons away, DG.

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Anon at 7.07pm
In response to your 1st question, no, I don’t as I feel free.
Agree with you re that aspect of spiritualism as I didn’t cop it on.
The main reason as I think re my involvement in these things such as new age was basically of religious education such as warning or dangers of these new age therapies.
Lot of people were caught up in all of this and STILL they don’t realise that cos Priests arent preaching about this and that nowadays.
Curse is a big problem cos again many people don’t realise this. I didn’t know it until I read John gillespie book to be honest with you due to lack or religious or spiritual education. It’s just sheer ignorance on my part.
Before John passed away, he was working on certain area which I didn’t understand. It was only two years later that I realised he was working on that area which had caused Ptsd in the 1st place. He never told me just he kept it to himself and on people as well which he carried it to his grave.

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8:19
I’m with you, DG.
You don’t know if John Gillespie was working on entry points?
It sort of sounds like it might be, DG.
Did John write a second book or was he working on a second book?

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6.07: if you were a priest and serious about yourself and “vocation to priesthood” you would not be so blasé and as silly as your comment suggests. You have printed similar comments before, with one intention only – to invite ridicule at genuinely good priests. Get real. Go on a retreat. Talk to a counsellor – but only if you are real!

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Anon at 9.03pm
What aspect of spiritualism were you referring to?
You got that right re entry points as it slipped my mind. Yes I think it might be the entry point cos I remember when it was it’s height or at top peak when I was dabbling with new age freely, full of ignorance of their consequences cos evil spirit was attacking the weakest point in my body. I didn’t understand it at all at that time re how. But now i came to realise that it had caused ptsd in the 1st place as I was amazed how clever was that evil spirits. Evil spirits are invisible just like the wind where we cannot see it. They can see it as I think.
Someone from Donegal(close friend of John as I believe) I forgot his name, wrote 2nd book as he attended John gillespie healing days over the past 12 months prior to death and co operating with John’s family. It has his wife approval after he passed away.
2nd book this time around is not about Miracles, it is about owning sickness and not knowing it etc, also how to get rid of it. It has a different slant and feel to 1st book. Much clearer.

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10:03
Contacting dead, seances, using charms, sort of stuff. I knew someone involved in spiritualism. Big business, DG. You’re right evil spirits are invisible however believe it or not some mystics are permitted by the Lord to see demons. I’m very familiar with Derek Prince ministry. Have you come across Fr. Pat Collins Freedom from Evil Spirits? Other catholic resources are Neal Lozano unbound. He’s got an online blog. Fr. Gabrielle Amorth has a number of books. Another book I came across is by a priest named Cliff Ermatinger on Devils Role in the Spiritual Life. Research into this topic has begun. However you can’t beat experience, DG.

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Dr Pitre makes a very poor case for the existence/defence of priesthood. In answer to the question, did Jesus establish a new priesthood?, he answers ‘I think so’. That’s it. And he bases this on a part of Luke’s gospel that none of the other gospels even hints at.
Such a significant event is apparently overlooked by all the other writers, which is significant in itself. Significant of what? Of the likelihood of its being entirely contrived by Luke to make a point about authority in the early church.
It would be academically more profitable to examine the link between the social background of Luke (persecution of Christians by a succession of Roman emperors) and the breakdown of authority in the early church. Luke, in my opinion, was trying to stop the rot by expressing the divine pedigree of leadership at the time, and he did this by contriving a scene in which no less a figure than Jesus himself institutes a style of ministry of which Luke himself must have approved.
These passages are symbol-heavy, which is a recognisable device gospel writers use to give weight to their own points of view. It is very obvious in Matthew’s gospel, where the writer has Peter proclaim Jesus ‘the Christ, the son of the living God’ when invited by Jesus to identify his nature. Sounds good, but it just wouldn’t have happened this way. ‘Christ’ is from the Greek ‘Christus’. Peter would have answered that invitation, likely in Aramaic, with the Hebrew word ‘Mashiach’.
It is important to be able to identify those occasions in the Gospel in particular where these devices are being used. Otherewise the most absurd conclusions can be drawn from them.

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Anon at 10.50pm

Many thanks for explaining that aspect of spiritualism. Imagine all the mistakes that I made re new age made me shudder. I was just ignorant, no basic religious or spiritual education, and naive as well.

I didn’t realise that evil spirits can see wheyre we cannot. It was only after that, I stood up and also woke up (what’s that etc) when windows opened itself in front of me. I said to myself at that time, what’s the hell was that not knowing my involvement at that time, led their part that led to this and that. It was an eye opener and also sober experience as well.

Know of Fr pat Collins but I haven’t come across his book.

Know and heard a lot about Fr Amorth as he’s very familiar.

Heard about Unbound but I havent come across nor read it.

Never heard of Cliff Ermatinger.

Experience with unseen spirit helped me to realise that there are other unseen spirits out there that we cannot see.

Windows opening itself, unexplained broken window and noise that I couldn’t hear but saw red eyes at 3am in corner of my bedroom. I had to go to a irish healer by the name of Murphy in London as I was in UK at that time. I spoke to him re my experience with strange spirits inside my bedroom. He said there was a possibility of black magic in that room before I moved in plus my involvement in new age which made 2 +2 into 4 which amplified the power of unseen spirits.

That Chap Murphy (think he’s dead now) very sensitive to just like a spiritual antenna. I came across though one book which mentioned his name. That’s how I found him.

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Don’t think jesus intend to establish Catholic Church. Don’t think that was his real intention although I could be wrong there. Think he wanted apostleship or friendship or gathering of believers instead of an organisation such as the Vatican.
Vatican is a political, religious organisation and also it’s a NGO. It’s also a state which jesus would have NEVER wanted it in the 1st place.
Its a state apparatus with lot of influence and power. It’s millions of money that carries their influence. Without millions in their bank accounts or property investments stuffed in various portfolios around the world, they wouldn’t have any power nor any influence.
Also their intelligence networks of spies around the world to where they would hide abusers or criminals in remote locations such convents or abbeys or monasteries. Any example of criminal or abuser living there, can u give us examples?
Was watching Derek Prince on video re bible ‘on the rock’ issue. Think rcc twisted it for their own ends cos I went to see John gillespie as he explained it that it’s your faith in jesus , not rcc that get you healed etc. It had me thinking for a while cos I realised that rcc was the middle man, why not direct with God instead of rcc.
He explained it well re sickness as if you owned it. Say for example, it’s my flu etc instead of the flu thats giving me trouble. He wrote another book before after he died but with family permission after his death it was published.
Leaving out women is a huge mistake on rcc part cos they had to compensate( to introduce) our lady in order to compensate and restore the balance. You know the most of monies comes from the ladies in the pews instead of the men.
Remember that lots of women accompanied jesus throughout until jesus death as women stayed at calvary where 10 apostles fled (excluding judas).
Jesus first appeared to a woman named Mary madgelen, but not any men including Peter 🤷‍♀️.
Thats says it all for me.
Rcc bishops or cardinals are anti women cos martel said 80% of all cardinals or the Vatican are gays (not sure it’s cardinal or all of the Vatican curia or personal).

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I am sick of this Bishop Pat, I just need out of the priesthood and I don’t know where to start. I am also a closeted gay and would love nothing more than to have the enjoyment of a sexual relationship before I die with a hot young tanned muscled man

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Whatever about an actual priesthood I have no doubt Jesus didnt intend the following:
A worldwide paedophile network
A forced labour camp system for unmarried mothers
Babies sold to Yanks
Support for Hitler, Mussolinni, Franco, Operation Condor etc
Sexual abuse of adults
Robbing money
Buying women 2 euro burgers
Phonsie Cullinan’s Brokeback Mountain

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MTU@ 6:55

Spot on!
Don’t forget:
Altar sex
MIAs
Moving priests around dioceses
Sex trafficking
Racketeering
Covering up crime
Sex acts in public
Buying women 2 euro burgers or battered sausages?

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Targeting for sexual and financial exploitation and defending same via various means including engagement in slander and defamation.

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Well done MTU,

Keep coming with more examples 👏.

Other readers, feel free to comment or bring any other examples apart from MTU ‘s as I’m all ears.

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Forcing governments to ban books
Demonization of sex
Defeat of the Mother and Child Act
Population explosions in poor countries
Interference in Family Planning
Abuse in industrial schools
Money laundering
Fraudulent money spinners like Medjugore
Persecution of scientists
Rejection of logic and reasoning
Tapping parishoners playing the poor mouth
Facebook campaigns against victims

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Tapping the taxpayer to pay for the sins of the abusive nuns and priests whilst the Roman Catholic Church sits on vast wealth.

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8:19 is it accurate that there’s a bunch of kids living with him for the summer. Why would Bishop Cullinan leave himself exposed in such a reckless manner? Is +Alphonsus arrogant, naive or a bit of both or does he believe that he’s also above the law in Ireland?

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I’m not sure of this common contention that Emperor Constantine created the idea of priesthood as caste. Before Constantine priests were usually gentlemen playing a civic role, but this fitted in the Roman social system of patron and client. They were also the only ones with advanced education. When the Western Roman Empire failed, not all Christian priests were equally blazingly literate, for instance St Boniface came across as Bavarian priest baptising ‘in nomine Patria et Filia…’ or obviously in the name of the ‘Fatherland, Daughter…’ but Rome replied it was valid, presumably as while the priest did not understand Latin ending, his patent intent was to make people Christians. Yet the wandering Irish like St Columbanus or the luminaries of Charlemagne’s or in more recent centuries Mass rock priests in Penal times towered intellectually over a mass of people with either only very basically literate or, more usually, not at all. It was a process. Kingdoms and Empires came and went yet Rome persisted.

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Pat, have you read the news about Philip Schofield? He has resigned fully from UTV after admitting he had an affair with an ITV employee whom he met, first as a prospective worker for ITV, but when employed the relationship became more than a friendship, all this taking place while married. His career has been car crashing ever since he revealed he was gay..it’s sad but was inevitable with all the furore with Holly. I hope he seeks professional help..

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Philip Schofield has resigned fully from ITV/UTV you say! Thank you for pointing out what happens in the “real world” outside of the conceited, arrogant clerical RC brigade who appear to be above both civil law and their own canon law. Rats and their cohorts clinging for dear life to the gravy train and with zero remorse for the hurt, loss and destruction they’ve deliberately and knowingly inflicted.

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