Catholic Truth Scotland.
Concerned Catholics in Scotland spent years writing to priests and bishops with concerns following the introduction of the new Mass in 1969, asking for action to be taken to end the various liturgical abuses which were featuring in parishes despite the Vatican documents purportedly seeking to correct them. Repeatedly, the Vatican refused to enforce its own rules. Eventually, the penny dropped and we realised that, humanly speaking, we were wasting our time. Letters sent to the Vatican might bring a polite acknowledgement, but the Bishops either ignored or insulted us, exhorting us to charity while defending dissenters.
Similarly, churches (including the cathedrals in Glasgow and Edinburgh – and no doubt other cities) were selling publications openly attacking or undermining Catholic teaching and morals. Dissenting speakers were being brought into churches and other Catholic premises to address priests and teachers and so, over the years following the Second Vatican Council to the present day, the traditional Faith has all but disappeared in Scotland (and indeed the wider UK and Ireland, if not worldwide).
Two Edinburgh priests in particular were a major cause of scandal in Scotland. Fr Steve Gilhooley and Fr (now Monsignor) Andy Monaghan were using the media to undermine and even openly attack the Church. Gilhooley did this through his column in the Edinburgh Evening News where, among many disgraceful statements, he informed his largely Protestant and secular readership that he’d like to see all dogma kicked out of the pews/Church, and Monaghan achieved the same end through his “Agony Uncle” phone-in radio show, Open Line on Radio Forth 2, where his advice to callers was about as Catholic as Ramadan. Our letters expressing concern to the now deceased Cardinal Keith Patrick O’Brien brought responses from him chiding us for our lack of charity and telling us that the writings of Fr Gilhooley helped many people and that Fr Monaghan was “doing God’s work…” (by encouraging abortions, adultery, cohabitation, and providing telephone numbers for “gay” helplines.)Our right and duty as lay people to engage in such [unpleasant] work is enshrined in Canon Law (Canon 212 # 3). In our newsletter we commented more than once on the strangeness, to put it mildly, of the Cardinal’s defence of these dissenters. I openly remarked that such defence of blatant attacks on Catholic teaching and morals could surely only mean that there was something in the Cardinal’s own personal life that blinded him to the spiritual dangers posed by these priests. Some wondered why we weren’t last seen in civil court! Thus, when his own scandal broke, we were almost alone in Scotland at being shocked but not surprised. An American commentator, however, had beat me to it some years previously when he said that where we witness liturgical abuse, we will find sexual sin.
Well-known local historian and scientist, convert to the Faith, Charles Smith, RIP, was keen to organise some kind of fightback. He hosted a small meeting of like-minded friends in Edinburgh, where we discussed the possibility of producing a simple newsletter to alert our fellow Catholics to the dangers posed by the modernism, the dissent, the anti-Catholic beliefs infecting the Church, by then very evident in liturgy, sermons, publications disseminated in parishes, schools etc.
Thus, in 1999 we published a single page newsletter which was well received. We now publish a 16 page newsletter, distributed to our postal and email list, and available to read in full on our website, bi-monthly. At one time, we sent a copy to every priest and bishop in Scotland; as we approached publication of our 100th anniversary copy, however, we decided to shake the dust, and remove all priests except those who opted to remain on our mailing list. No use casting pearls before swine…
In highlighting the above mentioned scandals of liturgical abuse (now normalised) we came to understand that the essence of the problem in the Church was, in fact, the new Mass itself, which had been created specifically to make it pleasing to Protestants. We began to quote those priests (e.g. Bugnini), and developed our apostolate from seeking to “reform the reform” to promoting the restoration of the traditional Latin Mass and Faith. In addition to the foregoing activities, our concerns included challenging the rise in the number of dissenting speakers and publications promoted by the Bishops, and we also responded to requests from priests to follow up public scandals, such as one Glasgow priest who was living with his “boyfriend” in the church house and others who were known to visit a “gay” bar in Glasgow. We were also approached by the broken-hearted husband of a woman who was involved in an affair with a priest – this in the Archdiocese of St Andrew’s & Edinburgh. None of the scandals which we published were news to the Bishops. Not one. Yet no action was forthcoming from them. We felt compelled, therefore, to bring such hypocritical double-living to the attention of the wider Church community.We considered (perhaps wrongly, as it turns out) that no Catholic would want their hard-earned contributions to their parishes to be used to fund a double-life of sexual activity or support for the so-called “gay culture”.
The majority of our reports, however, are religion-related scandals. The utterances and behaviour of Pope Francis, who just cannot conceal his Marxism, and other examples of what Pope John Paul II once described as “a silent apostasy” but which is now screaming from the rooftops, are typical of the reports which we bring to our readership. In short, the nature and purpose of our apostolate mirrors the nature and purpose of the Church itself – to spread the truths of the Faith, that is, the truths required for salvation, in obedience to Christ’s Great Commission (Matt 28:19-20) and to correct those errors, heresies and immoralities which are obstructing the Church’s mission and obscuring its purpose.
Our stated aim is to keep the faithful informed of the dire state of the Church at this time of crisis, a crisis easily the worst ever to hit the Church. We seek to make a contribution to the restoration of the traditional Catholic Faith, and take as our inspiration, Scotland’s only canonised martyr – St John Ogilvie – who, when asked why he had returned from the Continent of Europe, said “I have come to Scotland to unteach heresy and to save souls.” Saving souls is the only reason the Church exists. It doesn’t exist to make life better or more comfortable for people, and it certainly doesn’t exist to afford any of us the means to justify living at variance with God’s natural and moral law. This truth has been forgotten as modernism and secularism have tightened their grip on Catholic churchmen, from the top down. Catholic Truth is little more than a very small contribution to ending that grip; a small contribution to the restoration, in Scotland, of all things in Christ (Ephesians 1:10).
I will not publish comments personally attacking the author of the above. She has given us ample material to discuss.
I fully accept your point about the liturgical abuses after the New Mass was introduced. Instead of celebrating Mass, many priests regarded the Mass as their own private show that they were presenting and the result was thoroughly embarrassing. Here is an example of what I talk about, from the Redemptorists.
For men like this Redemptorist Mass is a pantomime and they are Cinderella! Maybe they did not get enough parental attention or long enough on the breast?
As for them allowing dissenting publications and speakers? That should have been a matter for the bishop.
Here I must confess that I am and have been a Liberation Theology and a Kung man. And I celebrated a funeral Mass over the Great Modernist George Tyrrell SJ.
But there have been theological differences in the church for 2,000 years. I suppose it’s only heresy we should worry about.
Patricia, I totally respect your point of view and your right to express it.
In Scotland the bishops and priests should be in dialogue with you. That’s the Christian and rational way.
I am very much a Vatican 11 man and far prefer the Novus Ordo to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. Having said that I would have no problem attending a Latin Mass.
The laity have every right to challenge what they see as liturgical abuse, corruption and clergy living double lives.
In any event, I cant see you going away 😃
So they better get used to you.
167 replies on “CATHOLIC TRUTH SCOTLAND.”
Bishop Pat. Serious questions:
1. Do you know how to celebrate the former form of the Roman rite?
2. Would you celebrate it, perhaps for a group of traditionally minded free Catholics?
I have never celebrated it.
Yes, I would celebrate it if a group asked me.
I’d be worried about my Latin being poor.
I used to be an altar boy at Latin Masses. I can help. I even have the surplice if you can supply the cassock.
There is also (very daring) the English version of course, facing the people, brutally suppressed by Good Pope Paul of the Mass Media Message. Not long out of my infancy we went from the English printed in my Mass book, to English straight out (planned by Pius and implemented by John).
Am I correct in suspecting the excerpt at 12.33 below denies this by stressing the Latin?
Liturgy “battles” are long since lost but it was in the 70s and 80s that far-sighted clergy started to say to me, “the Church has nothing more for you”. What we continue to not see is any sense of spiritual gifts or virtues in everyday living, nor enough plain prayer.
I would be terrified if asked to celebrate the Old Latin Mass. All those hand movements and little blessings would confuse me totally. I admire the Redemptorist in the video, a good pastor who knows how to celebrate. When it cut off I was all ready to sing along with the kids: “Our God is a great big God and he holds us in his hands!”
Note the camera person keels over at 2 mins 10 secs.
(And bring back black forest gateaux)
The “Holy See” ambushed Vince into concelebrating at KOB’s obsequies. It would have been fine for him to be in the congregation but on the top platform you needed the rural dean of Newcastle plus a no. 4 rank from Edinburgh (to give him the people touch seeing as he is “only human”).
You’ve mislead blog readers, Pat. You told them it was a Scotland day, not another Catholic Truth Scotland platform. CTS is not representative of Catholic Scotland: they are a minority voice. They are entitled to their opinion, but the majority of Catholics in Scotland, at best, disagree with them, at worst, consider them a tail that wants to wag the dog.
As for the video clip, it was clearly a children’s Mass, and the priest was trying to relate to the children on a level they might understand. Jesus behaved in similar fashion, despite the objections of his disciples who thought his relating to the children was somehow beneath him, an affront to patriarchal Judaism. Your finding the priest’s conduct embarrassing is a matter of personal taste, and you are entitled to your opinion, but it is not some indicator of objective liturgical abuse.
If you don’t like the style of such Masses, then don’t ape them or attend them. But please don’t try to impose on the rest of us your liturgical preferences.
Bp Pat is very nieve to get himself inveigled with CTS.
I am not inveighled with CTS. The Editor got in touch and we have had a dialogue. Is that not what Christian’s are supposed to do?
Why do you say that?
She has seduced and beguiled you with her arts.
I feel neither seduced or beguiled. I have very different views than Patricia. But I admire her strength, her eloquence and her ability to withstand criticism.
@9.00 are you saying that Pat has fallen for her womanly charms?
Good to see you have a sense of humour Pat…. It’s sadly missing a lot these days.
I’ve always had a great sense of humour. It’s got me through a lot.
Even children’s Masses do not require the priest to be a clown. This priest was promoting himself and not Jesus.
I agree with you on that “our god is a great big fraud” redemptorist priest. It’s all about him – a guy who would make your skin crawl. St Alphonsus must weep above. The order he founded is moribund.
8.58, the priest here is not a clown. You are expressing an opinion; that is all. And you have done so with contempt and disrespect.
Watch AND listen to the clip again: the children seem to be enjoying themselves, seem to be happy. What better way to be in the presence of the Lord.
I don’t know whether whoever filmed the video had a liturgical agenda, but I do know that it was posted with one. It has failed to make the desired point.
11 14: An excellent comment. Pat is liberal in all ways but not always correct either in theology or spirituality. For a guy who claims to be very open minded on all things sexual, he has a wooden approach to liturgy. Pat sees nothing wrong in always judging and condemning others, yet happily celebratesxa daily.mass, knowing that the Eucharist calks him to become what he receives, i.e: The Body of Christ for others without the merciless tones of disapproval and criticisms. Since Pat does not have a Children’s/Family mass, he hasn’t a clue about being imaginative and creative at such celebrations. Pat, sadly, sees everything through his as yet unacknowledged blinkers, prejudice and bias against all Catholic Clergy. Some of his liturgical celebrations lacy integrity!!
Pat’s blog is not about judging but exposing all the widespread corruptions in RCC – ism.
I regularly have groups of children here for Confirmation and Holy Communion and have great chats and fun with them at homily time.
I feel no need to wear a Black Forest Gateux hat to tell the children about Jesus and the Sacraments.
That’s just gimmickery and making it all about a priest show.
10.09, what is the corruption here? Failing to satisfy your and CTS’s liturgical preferences is not corruption.
There was talk a while back of Adrian Egan being made PP of Ballyfermott (or was it Ballymun?). What ever happened about that.
You’ve got some cheek, you lot have been imposing your liturgical preferences which a lot of
people, don’t like for years! That dreadful video was indeed liturgical abuse, you say it was a children’s Mass I suggest you look at it again. The congregation was full of pensioners not children, it was a disgrace I have forwarded a copy to the Congregation for Divine Worship who I am sure will indeed say it was Liturgical Abuse! and as for that priest he should be dismissed for sacrilege.
12.48, your particular liturgical taste has been offended here, but that is not a licence for you to demand ( I use the word ‘demand’ deliberately, since the tone of your post is one of imperious denunciation and intolerance) that your will be done in these matters. This is attempting to impose YOUR liturgical aesthetic on others, and yet you had the temerity to accuse me of doing likewise.
I have imposed nothing on anyone. ALL liturgical tastes are now satisfied in the Church. Why can’t you live with this plurality instead of trying to impose, by diktat, your preferences on others? That is liturgical imperialism, not Christian communal living.
As for the video, I am not going to get into an argument with you about the nature of the service featured in it. The priest is self-evidently addressing children primarily, and they have clearly warmed to his style of evangelising. If the priest made a mistake, it was encouraging the adults, in the background, to come down to the children’s level. And was it such a dreadful mistake? One worth contacting the Congregation for Divine Worship over?
Think about the phrase I used: that the priest had ‘come down to the children’s level’. Isn’t this what the Son of God did through his incarnation? Come down to our level? And isn’t this the traditional explanation, at least in part, for Lucifer’s rebellion in Heaven? He was too affronted, too self-important, to accept that God should condescend to the level of mere humans.
Ballymun would be a bit rough for Adrian Egan.
I can’t read anymore of this. Anonymous, you’d better stay that way. Cus you. Know thyself first. If you’re looking for God, I don’t think you are going to fund him. You may think you know him. But does he know you. I hope you have a torch ’cause your light has left you. ❤🙏🖕
Anonymous @ 11.14pm
You have missed the point entirely. If Catholic Truth were representative of the majority of Catholics in Scotland, there would be no need for us at all. Or, as + Pat might say, “at all, at all”. It’s only because the traditional Faith has gone AWOL in Scotland, with the majority not thinking to report it missing just yet, that we stick around.
Come again. I missed the point? I did?
No point was missed by me, but by you. Today’s blog has, for some time now, been billed as a Scotland Day.
Is Catholic Truth Scotland, um, Scotland?
If you had any integrity, you would have pulled out of today’s discussions.
The Church does not exist to save souls; they are already saved, by Christ.
The Church exists to make known this good news, and people need only accept it by believing, not in the Church (which is merely a harbinger), but in Christ.
Anonymous @ 12.34am
So, what are the Sacraments all about then? If we’re already saved, why on earth did Christ talk to Peter about holding the “keys of the Kingdom of Heaven” etc?
What you have expressed here, is pure Protestantism.
Protestantism or whatever: it is still the truth.
What you are saying is an implicit denial of the salvific efficacy of Christ’s passion, death, and ressurrection. As the traditional Stations of the Cross declare: ‘ By your Cross you have redeemed the world.’ Redeemed the world not through the Church, but by the Cross.
You are expressing heresy.
Christ instructed his disciples (according to Matthew) to ‘go therefore and make disciples of all nations…teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you…’
Disciples of whom? Simon Peter? No: of Jesus, because Jesus alone is saviour.
The gospel passage of keys and kingdom appears only in Matthew; it is arguable that they are attributive rather than real, that is, the author of Matthew, writing for Hellenistic Jews, is expressing his belief (and, throgh it, hoping to persuade his readers) that a Jew, Simon Peter, has supreme authority among Jesus’ followers. The argument is strengthened by the fact that each of the synoptic gospels (Mark, Matthew, and Luke) has Simon Peter, on the same occasion, identify Jesus as the ‘Christ’. ‘Christ’ comes from the Greek, ‘Christos’, (‘Anointed One’), and is normally taken as the direct translation of the Hebrew, ‘Mashiach’ (again, ‘Anointed One’). This is correct, but only technically, since semantically both words are very different: ‘Christos’ refers to Jesus as the divine Son of God, whereas ‘Mashiach’ expresses the Jewish concept of Anointed One, which had absolutely no divine reference.
Even so, the preceding verse makes clear the guiding authority post-Ascension; it is Jesus himself:
‘And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church…’
Jesus was to be the builder and saviour, not Peter: not the church.
Further to my post at 6.46, Simon Peter would not have answered Jesus’ putative question, ‘and who do you say that I am?’ with the word ‘Christos’, but with the Hebrew word, ‘Mashiach’, since none of the disciples, at this stage, knew that Jesus was divine. They would not have expected him to rise from death; hence Simon Peter’s protestation to dissuade Jesus from proceeding to his crucifixion in Jerusalem.
The Hebrew word, ‘Mashiach’, expressed the reality of messiahship as the disciples, being Jews, traditionally understood it at this time; ‘Christos’ did not.
Bp Pat, there is a new “Hate Crime Bill Scotland” progressing through the Scottish Parliament.
This new Hate Crime Bill will also provide for new ‘stirring up’ of hatred offences that would apply to all characteristics listed in the Bill: age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity and variations in sex characteristics. Currently, these offences only apply to stirring up racial hatred.
The Hate Crime Bill will send a strong message to victims, perpetrators, communities and to wider society that offences motivated by “prejudice” will be treated seriously and will not be tolerated.
For example, “crying or screaming out to Heaven for vengeance” on gays, denouncing them as “intrinsically disordered”, promoting quack “conversion therapy, or investigating the “sodomite leanings” of priests or seminarians will all more than likely fall foul of the new Law.
This is a very interesting comment. I am not legal minded but it would be great if you could say more about what might be involved in this law being introduced and how it might affect us.
How could it affect us. We are not in Scotland.
Might it affect Catholic Truth Scotland?
I cannot see a law prohibiting the expression of religious beliefs???
Mind, this is Scotland day, Bp Pat!
The Bill cannot unduly inhibit freedom of expression protections set out in the European Convention of Human Rights.
However, “crying out to Heaven for vengeance” on black people, or denouncing black people or Jews as “intrinsically disordered,” for example, would already be outlawed.
Of course, people like the editor of CTS are vehemently opposed to the Bill, so it must be a good thing.
Scotland is leaving Europe ???
9.03 it’s coming in everywhere and will invite us to better critical & individual thinking. You can’t solve Rome problems within the Rome system. The “world” likes to keep Rome’s contradictions in place.
Bishops, acting together, could start to abolish those, by resettling the Rories and the Alter JPs whom they have tricked, and by offering Alex and the hospital chaplains deaconship while setting them up again in gifted self-employment (note Butler is a very different case BTW).
(This will win breathing time for rethinking “sacraments” and the subsidiarity-defying bureaucracy.) Basil’s and Bowen’s generation taught us NOT to pray for bishops because they already looked like they didn’t need it, thanks be to the Image Consultants.
The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg protects the human rights of people in countries that belong to the Council of Europe.
The Council of Europe is entirely separate from the European Union (EU).
However, you can only be a member of the EU is you are a member of the Council of Europe.
But you can be a member of the Council of Europe without being a member of the EU.
The European Court of Justice in Luxembourg regulates the EU.
Scotland is leaving the EU, not the Council of Europe or the ECHR.
They’ll have to close down Rangers and the Orange Order in Scotland.
In Nazi Germany “the law” was that Jews were to be treated as non-citizens, even as non-humans. Was that a good law, a law that followed naturally from the divine law? No, it was evil legislation, as this “new law” of a culturally Marxist government will be also, absolutely null and void before God.
Do not confuse legal with lawful! Only laws that accord with the eternal law of God and right reason can properly be called laws. As St. Augustine says: “An unjust law is no law at all”.
The moral teaching of the Church concerning homosexuality will never change, it can’t because it’s from God Himself (see Sodom & Gomorrah and St. Paul, Romans 1, 24) for starters. Hence, governments may use legality to impose evil on a nation, as Hitler and Stalin did, but it will NEVER be true law!
Your presenting the Catholic Church as the well of moral law makes sense only as a blatantly heightened historical irony; to understand it in any other way is preposterous to the point of schizophrenic delusion.
The antisemitism you rightly decry in Nazi Germany had a long providence, stretching right back through the history of the Catholic Church almost to its beginning. The violent, murderous hatred of Jews in such historic figures as Luther and Hitler was suckled by both from ‘Holy Mother Church’.
As for Augustine, this is the biblical heretic who fed succeeding generations the evil of so-called ‘just war’, and its consequential exceptionalism about the sanctity of human life.
You are living a fantasy about the Catholic Church.
Anonymous @ 7.07am
The message which the new Hate Crime Bill sends is a message of warning to anyone who breaches the tyrannical politically correct permissions which will police our thoughts as well as our words and actions. An entirely new type of “law”.
Nicola Sturgeon and her authoritarian Marxist government will, however, eventually be challenged in the Supreme Court in London without which we’d by now have State guardians (Named Persons) controlling our children and criminalizing parents for daring to think differently from wee Nicola.
And you wonder why the majority of us voted to stay in the UK ? Not all that much better, but still marginally so. Long may it last.
It would be best if you had retired when you vowed to do so instead of bothering gay priests and pestering young seminarians with unsolicited mail. The new law will, hopefully, put a spoke in your wheel.
5.33 & 8.12, we didn’t get to the bottom of whether there was justification in the change of behaviour towards AB? He’s not the one I would single out for “lack of integrity”, but certain people with more clout. Are the other components of Editor’s message just a front and is she not brave after all?
If I’ve missed some detail it’s only fair you should be allowed to point it out. In any event what was the tone of the earlier correspondence? Did that single him out (letting others off the hook) as well? This affair needs better exposure.
– Bp Pat from how you look to me, I don’t think you are either a Vat II OR a non-Vat II man, furthermore the novus ordo has little to do with Vat II (though we were “told” it had). Your detaching from Rome has given you vital freedoms. Sadly even the better sort of (still just about Roman) catholics mostly don’t yet understand life is about what goes on outside “eucharist”.
– Rome has for some time been solely memes and pincer movements (this started long before council)
– The sexual revolution was meant to be better than it turned out. Rome threw the world’s guilt about sex onto us. The “fathers” of Rome spoke with forked tongue, hence the children’s conflicts. Rome pretends to see only on the surface and won’t admit we who matter should see beneath it. The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit whom you & I long for is Rome’s total institutionalised unbelief in and mistrust of Him / us.
– it therefore is not surprising Father Monaghan and others cut corners around (reportedly) abortions / the over-promoting of homosexual activities / obsessions. And Pope Paul told us we actually should go on the radio
– likewise Father Gilhooley had been told from a child he had to be a “priest” forever and he was also told KOB had to be his role model. His only way of manning up is to disobey his own sacred religion (the very same that is hailed by the world order).
– the beginnings of a remedy for these two is that they ought to decide to give themselves an easy time. Maybe their position of “priest” means far less than what was sold to them.
– Rome’s vacuous intensity (rigid wishy washiness) triggers attacks of mania in almost everybody, which is mistaken for enthusiasm
– we should complain far more against powerful people who cause the burnout of us little ones and not concentrate our ire mainly on fellow victims such as Alex B, nor against those who brave danger to warn, however idiosyncratically (McCreevey, Marshall, Schneider)
Rory Coyle and his DMin……”Recently, I experienced a personal transition as I left the parish of Armagh, and moved to the Servite Fathers, in Chelsea, London”….no shit ! Personal transition….??!! No, what really happened is that Rory got caught out, had to go all penitent, had to rely on the usual clerical support system of being sent away by his bishop at diocesan expense to ‘find himself’, and then emerge to reappear in some other capacity. I’m still unclear what Rory is up to currently, but I suspect that after a suitable period of time he will reappear in ministry, probably abroad, and carry on. Until he gets caught out again. That’s the usual pattern.
Pat did you ever think of linking up with Patricia on the CTS. I think it would be a great zoom conversation. You both seem to get on so well.
I think this would be a great idea too. It would give all our hearts a lift. Would you be up for it Pat. Do you think that Patricia would give it a try too? It could be the start of a great partnership.
I’d certainly think about it.
That is a step too far.
Have you thought about having a zoom chat so we can all join in?
A Q&A session with yourself and Patricia would be great.
But apart from Patricia being part of it, it would be great to see you lead a number of spiritual talks, Pat. It’s the next step from the web Masses.
Blessing to you and all in the oratory community.
I could do that. I do have my recent sermons on podcast
I love The bishopbuckleyspodcast | 14TH SUNSAY 6.7.2020, let’s play it!
I like the sermon about the snail. I Downloaded the app to listen to the sermons.
Do you accept seminarians for ordination in the oratory? What would be the minimum qualifications
Each person is considered individually. We would want to know them for some time. We would want them to display prayerfulness and spirituality. We would want them to have a working knowledge of theology and scripture. We would want them to feel called to a particular ministry and show a history in that area. And it is all done with the involvement of the people here.
Pat, don’t, whatever you do, take in ex-seminarians. They have more baggage than a jumbo jet.
Thanks Pat for uploading your podcast. I’ll listen to it now. Hope you have a great day.
I enjoyed listening to your podcast Pat.
Make no mistake about it : there has ever only been one Christian in all of history…..
Its practice is entirely transactional for most, particularly Bishops of the Roman Rite….and before the deluge from the ‘christians’…I have sufficient self awareness for my own self critique…
Let the christians ( the savage dogs) comment…
I enjoyed it as well. Maybe you could post your sermons like a video recorded message. I can’t always make the Mass at the scheduled time and I would love to be able to see them when I come in from work.
The June 2020 newsletter from Maynooth reveals that they have only 2 priest ordinations this year and no deacon ordinations. It’s kaput, isn’t it? It’s a mystery why Rome allows it to stay open with such low numbers. I thought that there was a minimum number for seminaries.
the college charge huge fees to Dioceses. isn’t there a diocesan levy as well? Ideally, the small few seminarians should be housed somewhere smaller on the grounds, and the current living quarters handed over as accomodation for lay students. When I was a lay student in Maynooth it was a nightmare to find somewhere to live, and all those empty vacant rooms at st pats. Many of my friends were couch surfing for months
There should not be lay students in Maynooth.
12:05, is that you mother burke?
12.05, and the Devil should behave himself. But there you have it: reality often falls far short of expectations.
you cannot level up by shutting down
Maynooth only allow ‘good looking people’ on their publications. This was a verbal instruction from a staff member and I know this for a fact and can swear on a bible.
Sounds like W@n(k)ersh
Fake Fr Dominique alert @12:44
No sign of our Fanny in the latest newsletter
I welcome the dialogue between this blog and CTS. Though I am not involved in any traditionalist movement, have zero interest in Fatima, and think Humanae Vitae seriously damaged the Church’s credibility and credibility, I do think now that Archbishop Lefebvre was correct when he warned that we had invented a new religion with a bastardised liturgy. Any sacramental celebration today whether it be a baptism, wedding, ordination, funeral or the Mass itself is indistinguishable from a birthday party – self congratulatory and tacky. As a distinguished number of British writers and intellectuals warned in an open letter in the sixties, the Old Mass was integral to Western civilisation, and we sold it and ourselves down the river.
Ah, yes, the Agatha Christie indult.
And as others have commented here In the past Lefebvre would have had no time for the likes of Etienne, Littleton et al
The SSPX don’t have birettas, for example, they don’t have a specific habit and their bishops don’t wear the purple cassock. They don’t want the dressing up crowd, which is an infestation from the ludicrous so called Anglo-Catholics.
Anonymous @ 11/59am
I am really surprised that you have zero interest in Fatima – the prophecies, especially about the spread of Communism, are unfolding before our very eyes. I’d urge you to check it out again, avoiding any “Fatima-lite” sites – the most reliable in terms of facts, is http://www.fatima.org
Some of us don’t see communism as a bad thing!
I sincerely believe Jesus taught Socialist values and communism only has to be adjusted in its application to become Christian Neo-Monastism/Holiness.
Anonymous @ 12.53pm
You should read Fatal Star, by Hamish Fraser, the famous Scots convert from Communism, who explains very clearly why this is just not true. It’s actually out of print now but possible to find a second hand copy if you search online. It is eye-opening about Communism and its main players. Hamish was a former secret agent and it was on reading the encyclicals on the Church’s Social Teaching – Pope Leo XIII (Rerum Novarum) and Pope Pius XI, Quadragesimo Anno, plus Divini Redemptoris (also Pope Pius XI) which condemned Communism as “intrinsically evil” – that he began his journey out of Communism. He had been brought up in a Protestant home, so did not have a natural inclination towards Catholicism.
Logically, were what you say to be true, God would hardly have sent Our Lady to Fatima to warn specifically about the spread of Communism from Russia – the first ever nation to publicly disown the very existence of God in its governance, which is why God requires it to be consecrated by name, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. I try to urge everyone to refresh their reading on Fatima because its warnings have been unfolding before our very eyes for years now, but never more than during the present threat from Communist China. Russia did, indeed, spread her errors, and most evidently in China.
12.26, Communism is contracting, not spreading.
What you define as Communism are actually elements of Christianity which you would prefer didn’t exist.
Christianity wasn’t tailored, by Christ, to your taste.
Your avatar is a completely false graphical representation.
1.32, and if you read the Bible in its entirety, you will learn some ‘intrinsically evil’ endorsements there, too. Like murder. Slavery. Paedophilia. Genocide. Etc
I’m not sure which is less savoury, morally speaking. The Bible, or Communism, because in some respects they are indistinquishable.
A pity Mary of Fatima seemed less familiar with her son’s word than Karl Marx’s.
12.26 Patricia, I know why you make the points you make, because I do an unusual amount of thinking round everything, and I am also not surprised why most readers don’t make the mental connections with points of appeal. I myself was never told of the existence of Fatima till I was in my 40s. Then I can’t count hail maries, and I can’t count beads on a fixed string either. Then you have all the mealy-mouthed Roman “rules” not to say “demonstrations” about this sort of thing. Perhaps those children prayed my ancestors into the RCC such as it was.
God did NOT send Our Lady to Fatima.
Fatima is just a right wing conspiracy to use religion to attack communism.
Medjegorie is a hoax too!
editor –22nd Jul 2020 at 1:32 pm
Here’s a link to Rerum Novarum, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON CAPITAL AND LABOR — http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html
Whatever Leo XIII had intended that documented was used as the moral basis of all the Fasciist Corporate States.
4.15, I think it’s obvious what Pope Leo intended with his encyclical: the protection of the vast property assets of the Catholic Church on the pretext of protecting the working poor from the populist political ideology, Socialism.
The Vatican had suffered considerable property losses with the Papal States only some twenty years earlier and, still smarting fom it, was determined not to lose any more of its vast assets.
Under the guise of rights and duties (Rerum Novarum) of capital and labour, the Vatican presented to the world a charter for bashing (And how!) not only the abstract principles of Socialism, but its more concrete adherents, socialists. And, it has to be said, presented a charter for antisemitism, since, historically, Jews had prospered in the only profession realistically open to them in Catholic Europe: moneylending. The encyclical has something to say about this, too, and it is not complimentary.
11.59, the old Mass was integral to Western Civilisation? So was hanging, beheading, feudal serfdom, deportation to Van Diemen’s Land, child labour, lack of workers’s rights, etc (the catalogue of human and moral failings here could run and run), but we don’t do those things anymore. And guess what? Western Civilisation hasn’t fallen apart; it has changed for the better.
As for your apparent disinterest in Fatima and your declared non-involvement in any traditionalist movement, this gambit convinces no one of your impartiality and does not give added weight to your criticism of the New Rite of Mass.
Yours is an opinion, a matter of taste just like any other. The problem is that while I, and most other Catholics who support the Novus Ordo, can live with the liturgical pluralism in the Church, traditionalists like you (I know you said you weren’t involved in any traditionalist movement, but you are, nevertheless, a traditionalist at heart) want to expunge everything we liturgically hold dear.
For most of my life I have been your typical Catholic who went to his local parish church as a matter of course. I have seen it implode from a three priest parish with six Sunday Masses to an amalgam with two other parishes shared between three priests; needless to say the convent closed years ago, and the secondary school is Catholic in name only and most of the kids and staff too would not even be able to tell you what the word meant – only that they didn’t believe in it.
1.26, and, of course, the unfinished, but customary, narrative here is that these changes are attributable to the Second Vatican Council. Am I correct?
In a century (the twentieth) in which two world wars were fought by Christians, and morally approved of by them, did you really think that such wanton disregard for human life would not have repercussions elsewhere? In relation to birth control? To abortion? To a ‘me’ culture of hedonistic pleasure and self-rationalisation? For the sexual abuse of children by men who claimed to preach the good news of salvation, but who clearly no longer believed in the Saviour? And for the so-called ‘successors of the Apostles’, who valued Christ so much in the image of his little ones that they sacrificed them, again and again, on the altar of expediency …their expediency … to preserve the reputation that they were holy men who knew the mind of God and were worthy of our trust?
Christ made it flawlessly clear that to love him means loving one’s neighbour. And one’s neighbour is everywhere.
We stopped loving our neighbour unconditionally when we compromised his God-given right to life, to happiness, to personal safety. Did you really think that Catholics would continue attending Mass in this frame of mind? Why would they continue to follow one whom they had already abandoned in their fellows?
If anything can truthfully be said of the Second Vatican Council and its liturgical changes, it is that these slowed down the decline in Christian belief, already well underway and spreading, and in the consequential decline in the numbers attending Church services.
Bishop Pat I disagree with almost everything you stand for. However, you have conducted yourself very charitably here, which is impressive.
Unfortunately, no matter ones theological position, editor of Catholic Truth does not have a charitable bone in her body and causes trouble wherever she goes.
I would like to state that I was wrong to say the editor of Catholic Truth does not have a charitable bone in her body. She has been charitable towards me in the past. I was wrong to write what I did.
The text of the appeal to Paul VI. I can’t imagine a similar appeal being made by a similar set of people in defence of the Novus Ordo.
1971 Statement by Scholars, Intellectuals, and Artists Living in England
“If some senseless decree were to order the total or partial destruction of basilicas or cathedrals, then
obviously it would be the educated — whatever their personal beliefs — who would rise up in horror to oppose such a possibility.
Now the fact is that basilicas and cathedrals were built so as to celebrate a rite which, until a few months ago, constituted a living tradition. We are referring to the Roman Catholic Mass. Yet, according to the latest information in Rome, there is a plan to obliterate that Mass by the end of the current year.
One of the axioms of contemporary publicity, religious as well as secular, is that modern man in general, and
intellectuals in particular, have become intolerant of all forms of tradition and are anxious to suppress them and put something else in their place.
But, like many other affirmations of our publicity machines, this axiom is false. Today, as in times gone by,
educated people are in the vanguard where recognition of the value of tradition is concerned, and are the first to raise the alarm when it is threatened.
We are not at this moment considering the religious or spiritual experience of millions of
individuals. The rite in question, in its magnificent Latin text, has also inspired a host of priceless
achievements in the arts – not only mystical works, but works by poets, philosophers, musicians, architects,
painters and sculptors in all countries and epochs. Thus, it belongs to universal culture as well as to
churchmen and formal Christians.
In the materialistic and technocratic civilisation that is increasingly threatening the life of mind and spirit in its original creative expression – the word – it seems particularly inhuman to deprive man of word-forms in one of their most grandiose manifestations.
The signatories of this appeal, which is entirely ecumenical and nonpolitical, have been drawn from every branch of modern culture in Europe and elsewhere. They wish to call to the attention of the Holy See, the appalling responsibility it would incur in the history of the human spirit were it to refuse to allow the Traditional Mass to survive, even though this survival took place side by side with other liturgical forms.”
Cecil Day Lewis
Oxford and Asquith
If you can’t imagine a similar appeal for the New Rite of Mass, then I am not surprised, because you are a liturgical snob.
Historically, intellectuals have always been outspoken, because they were gifted by nature to be so. But it did not necessarily mean that they spoke for others, or that others had no point of view.
The vast majority of people are not so gifted, otherwise the epithet ‘intellectual’ would become meaningless. But even among intellectuals there can be intellectual myopia, and it arises because they tend to equate silence by their plebian inferiors as, at best, acquiesence in THEIR ideals, or, at worst, as total indifference one way or the other, the mark of people too stupid to think for themselves, and too unsophisticated to appreciate the rarified cultural tastes of their betters.
Most people clearly prefer the New Rite, otherwise the relatively few who attend traditionalist liturgies would become the manifest majority, which, again clearly, they are not.
The plebs have voted with their unwashed bodies, and, inarguably, it is for the New Rite.
Well, they were dead right, weren’t they?
Most are/were Ravi Shankers.
1:41 There was a appeal for the new form of mass when thr Vatican took the vernacular option for mass away with the 2010 missal (which is not in the vernacular but in vaticanese)
The appeal to save the terrible ICEL translation came from such leading intellectuals as Brian Darcy and Tony Flannery lol
Bishop Pat, do you know Archbishop Stack?
No. Should I ?
George Stack was VG (clergy) in Basil’s time, and took his role very seriously. When he wore his enforcer hat he was a match for any straying priest.
Keep the Welsh out of it. This is Scotland Day. Also the Feast of St Mary Magdalene.
George Stack gave the Westminster Cathedral MC, Fr Danny Cronin, the bum’s rush out of WC, though Danny was given a soft landing with a posting to Hampstead. He was the cathedral’s last clerical MC.
The comment about “Miss World” at Westminster Cathedral, the eccentric woman with a huge globe, nicknamed by Mark Langham and Tim Dean (chaplains), reminded me of George as Cathedral Administrator. His Precentor Terry Phipps greeted the female Folk Choir leader with a hug at the back of the Cathedral. George shouted to him “Put that woman down!”
He was born in Cork and grew up in London. Photos of him with the Queen were displayed in the Cathedral. Sacked the Folk Choir when they were on summer holiday. No explanation. No reply to letters.
I never knew George Stack had such good musical taste.
Danny Cronin is a blast from the past in Westminster. As Basil’s MC he was once ubiquitous. Lesser known perhaps was his responsibility for the Ministry for Priests Programme- as the late Jim Brand opined, Who Cares for the Carers? This involved excruciating pub visits for lonely twats to engage in enforced fellowship over a pint of shandy. Give me a night out with Gorgeous any day!
Folk choirs are from another era, they are now nearly sixty years out of date. Once they get hold of microphones you can never get rid of them. If you go to Mass at 8 on. Sunday morning do you really want to hear four hymns from the John Paul years?
I agree Folk Choirs are old hat. Divine Renovation Network Praise and Worship bands connect with people of all ages. Growing in the UK, including London Docks and Richmond parishes. 4 songs at Mass from Hillsong, Matt Maher and Worship Central. Pioneered at St Benedict Parish, Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Do you think the music is too express praise or to cover up the repetitiveness of the new Mass?
We have a gospel choir in the parish. Brilliant singers and full of energy but its all about them. even the men in the choir wear makeup.
a neighbour of mine was on the town council a few years ago. They asked the choir would they like to sing at an outdoor town event. They came back with the following: 1. they needed a stage and barriers to be erected 2. the barriers had to be a certain feet away from the stage, 3 they wanted security guards around the stage, 4 they asked for a fee.
The council withdrew the invitation.
Folk music wasn’t even popular with the young in the 1960s and 1970s, and now it’s only liked by people in their 60s and 70s.
I’m in one of the singing priest’s parishes and it’s non-stop singing, even during the week. Sunday Mass lasted about 80 minutes before the lockdown. Some of us just like quiet Masses.
Reported as providing a safe haven in Cardiff for his pal one Michael Seed (chaplain to MPs and celebs), who once lived in Dolphin Square.
How is the aul doll?
Why, oh why, must clergy in Glasgow get the well known and now retired blow job merchant AS to supply for them.
Surely there must be other men available to fill in rather than that pervert.
My mother came home from mass one Sunday and said the minute AS came out onto the sanctuary everyone looked at each other and rolled their eyes.
The ‘priest’ concerned had been cavorting with a rent boy and getting BJs in a public park. Fully exposed ( no pun intended) in Scottish media during a blackmail trial.
I’ve subsequently hear lots of other stuff about the same guy yet ++Philip still allows the so called holy priest to say public masses.
Any wonder the pews are emptying!
It was… well, let’s just say, a romantic misunderstanding.
I thought you might have mentioned Fort Augustus Abbey today, Pat, what with it being the day that is in it.
Is today significant in the Fort Augustus story?
Sorry, Pat, I meant that today the blog is focused on Scotland.
Surprised to see some posters bringing up Fatima. I went there as I found it spiritually empty place unlike knock or Lourdes where we felt God there and also healing place that they are. Don’t think our lady appeared at Fatima as its a fraud. Its a money spinner generator for any diocese where our lady appeared. Huge monies etc. Fatima was empty as we couldn’t feel anything. However careful reading on Fatima made me realise few things needs to be addressed.
1. One of the visionaries late father was an atheist as he wasn’t changing it until he died. I need to check on this.
2. Fatima apparitions was predicated by spiritualists few months before it started.
3. Fatima prophecies were written down after FACT. Nun wrote that 2nd world war happened as she wrote it down in 1942 not before it.
4. Since the release of 3rd secret, it had created divisions among the catholics and in Catholic Church as well. That isn’t the work of the HS cos he doesn’t create division but unity.
5. Lot of healings took place in knock and Lourdes but nothing on Fatima. Never heard any stories on fatima healing but numerous stories coming from knock or lourdes.
6. A Belgian jesuit fr dhanis who was sent by the vatican, investigated Fatima apparitions as he wrote a thesis on it. He was opposed to it as he said there was Fatima 1 and Fatima 2 narratives. He was promoted upwards by successive popes until 1952 as Vatican thumbed their noses on Fatima. It was interesting re his read on Fatima.
7. Our lady didn’t predict that 3 seers missed 13th July apparition. She said come here 13th of every month for 6 months but all seeing God would tell the seers that they would miss one apparition such as 13th July.
To me, Fatima is a huge money spinning generator for a Bishop in that diocese. Did you know that knock house hotel is owned by Bishop of tuam or rcc?
Deaf guy, one of the gifts your difficult experiences have left you with is a great sense of discernment, which you display again here.
5:21 sarcasm at its best !
‘Lot of healings took place in knock’
Since 1879, just one, one miracle has been approved by doctors. Where are all these healings? I’ve googled and find nothing. Oh your arm was sore and you went to knock and took a few paracetamol and then it went away. g’wan outter that!
Fatima has several documented medical cures. The fact you bother to go to these Catholic ‘money spinner generators’ would indicate you are a confused cathbot. ”I Never heard any stories on Fatima” – again you don’t do your research. You’re an armchair theologian.
Furthermore, knock house hotel is not ‘owned’ by the ‘Bishop’ of Tuam (in-fact its Archbishop). St Jarlath’s Diocesan trust own shares, the rest are owned by private companies/individuals.
”Since the release of 3rd secret, it had created divisions among the catholics and in Catholic Church as well. That isn’t the work of the HS cos he doesn’t create division but unity”. Eh, HELLOOOO, how many christian churches and sects are there. is the HS playing with us?
Give me strength 🤣
deaf guy. are ya well? are ya? are ya well in the head?
Lot of healings took place in knock and Lourdes but nothing on Fatima.
are you from the knock tourist board?
Sceptics have argued that, as the apparitions did not move or speak during the entire period they were seen on the church’s gable wall, it was most likely they resulted from from “the projection of a magic lantern slide”, as former Trinity College Dublin professor of philosophy David Berman put it in a 1979 article. It also pointed to contradictions in witness statements.
David Berman was probably a Protestant.
If the alleged apparition(s) at Knock, in 1879, is anything more than a bog Irish fantasy or lie, I wonder was its Heaven’s way of saying ‘sorry’ to the Irish poor for its silence during the Great Famine. And Heaven was silent, more than a million times, as the Irish poor (men, women, children, even babies) suffered an indescribably cruel death from starvation, while Heaven’s well-fed priests survived?
No wonder the alleged apparitions, of Mary, Joseph, and John the Evangelist, were silent: they had nothing even remotely meaningful to say to a people who, for the most part, had shown Heaven its devotion.
Those spectral figures should have hung their heads in eternal shame.
A 6:52: what an intelligent insightful perceptive and no doubt well informed or researched observation: …..probably!
you say Fatima is a fraud as its a money generator for a Diocese? have you read the balance statements of these shrines. Furthermore, have you actually been to Lourdes? its wall to wall souvenir shops, and knock has a main street where every 2nd shop is making money through souvenirs.
5:08 those are very subjective statements. Yon won’t be joining Rory in the Phd club 😂🤪🥳
On her last Jesus said to his mother that she could make a visit to any place on earth, of her choosing. She picked Knock because she said she wanted to go to somewhere she’d never been before.
personally I’d have chosen the Costa del Sol, but thats just me
Timmy promised to take me to Torremolinos but instead we rented a caravan outside Llandudno North Wales. Shocking place
And Jesus answered foggily: Where?
Seems even he had never been there.
The greatest gift that can be given to any dead catholic is as many holy sacrifices of the mass as possible to be offered at a minimum of £20 a time.
Now there you are.
No need for them oul sympathy cards ( a very Protestant thing) and flowers or contributions to charities or medical research. They don’t need the dosh as much as the masses for the dead soul.
Catholics get your priorities right. Ease the poor soul’s time in purgatory ( 10 outa 10 for the guy who invented that one) and fill the parish ( and diocesean coffers ) to overflowing.
More tea vicar?
Sammy, God love ya, but what are ya on about 🤨
Sammy, your tongue in cheek comment prompts some thoughts about Catholic practices for the dead, such as prayers at funerals, Mass cards, and similar.
In orthodox Catholicism as I understand it, at point of death, one’s soul is set and fixed to go to heaven or hell according to whether or not the individual dies in a “state of grace.”
There’s also some in between purgatory phase for those heavenly bound who need to be “cleansed” for minor infractions, ie, ‘burned a bit’ for outstanding stuff still on their scorecard! (While I say this disparagingly, isn’t that what we’ve been told it amounts to?)
Now here’s the interesting bit. If the ‘die is cast’ on death, is the point of subsequent prayers for the deceased, (who has either gone ‘down below’ or actually/potentially ‘up above’ ) to help cleanse his/her purgatorial scorecard/slate? It certainly can’t be a consideration in the already made determination at point of death. And if subsequent to death prayers and masses for the deceased lessen their purgatorial period, to what extent is that fair and equitable? Buying mass cards for the popular or well known deceased conjures up images of the buying of indulgences Luther argued against, and look at what that led to. And the poor isolated less well known deceased individual for whom nobody buys masses/cards, well that’s just tough luck. “Keep ‘er lit” seems inappropriate, but apt!
Just one of the many “puzzles” of Catholicism
It tells us a lot about lack of sense or strength in Catholic doctrine when not even one of the Cathbot RCC clerics who frequent this blog is able to respond in any way to the above comment by MMM. Or might it be that saying anything just further invites ridicule?
Pat, am I right in thinking that you have been to Lourdes? If so, what do you think of it there?
I’ve been to Lourdes 28 times. I am very attached to it.
7:09, would you consider leading a pilgrimage out there or somewhere else?
The last time I was there the bishop barred me from all the chapels in Lourdes
Pat, why? I’m sure you were being very reverent
Of course I was. But I was non canonical !
7.48, had he the legal right to do so?
Have bishops in Britain and Ireland the legal right to bar anyone from a church building?
Who owns these buildings?
deaf guy – what a load of caca!!
you’ll find she revealed the second world war at the time of the apparitions and she wrote it down officially in 1935, four years before the war.
Did she indeed. I bet that revelation was ‘released’ retrospectively!!
7:31, GET BEHIND ME SATAN
7.07, I am not being cynical, but can you prove any of this?
Did she disclose it at the time of the apparitions? Or did she wait until 1935 to claim that she had?
By this year, it was becoming increasingly obvious that Germany’s politics and economy was preparing for war, though many chose to deny it.
Canon 212 # 3, mentioned by Patricia McKeever in today’s blog article, is sometimes referred to as the busybodies charter.
One of the vanishingly few times rights are given to lay people and it’s dismissed as a busybodies charter?
Rights? For lay folk in the Church?
Actually, @ 8.43, the word fits Patricia McKeever like a kid glove, since she goes out of her way to cause trouble for people like that young seminarian Alex B.
The Vatican website has a new appeal for donations to the dicastery for communications.
It says; ” the Church is communion. It is a network of love”.
Tell that to those abused by clergy.
Speaking of love, Patricia McKeever’s article points out the duplicity and hypocrisy of the institution, while bishops chiding with appeals to charity is laughable! To many of these people do not practice what they preach and claim to believe. My bishop tried to destroy me and his successor had to lie, not wanting to know. So much for charity!
It is a total waste of time, energy and effort challenging their arrogance.
By the way, if Pope Pius IX is correct, what kind of God would create billions of humans in the knowledge they will never attain salvation?
What did Pius IX say on the subject?
Joan Ferguson gets to view her departmentals from the other side – Wentworth Detention Centre for Women.
If more lived the gospel there might be fewer scandals.
OMG! That C.I.D vulnerable adults officer from St Anne Street Police Station who was shouting my at me and intimidating me the other week in the interview room was my duty solicitor the secondtime I was arrested last year 2919!!
The first time I was arrested the duty solicitor was the musician from Head of Gardening’s parish church!!
OMG! bishop Pat I feel sick.
Pat. Any reply from Fr Danielle Etienne or Bishop Swarbrick in Lancaster? I emailed them both a full copy of yesterday’s blog and they never replied. The matter is clearly in hand then eh?