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21 GAY POPES, CARDINALS AND ASSORTED CATHOLIC LEADERS.

Take a look at some of the queer leaders of one the world’s most influential organized religions.

BY JACOB OGLES FEBRUARY 02 2018 THE ADVOCATE

While the Roman Catholic Church has long condemned homosexual acts as sinful, history nevertheless shows many of the church’s leaders engaged in same-sex love. There is evidence that of the 266 popes in history, nearly a dozen were gay, bisexual or, in one case, transgender. The following includes Catholic popes, cardinals, and archbishops who faced rumors or accusations of unorthodox orientation.

1. Joan (est. 800)
As the story of Pope Joan goes, the female religious figure was born in Mainz, Germany, and arrived in Athens disguised in men’s clothes before joining the priesthood. She made her way to Rome and rose to the level of cardinal in the church before being elected as pope. But Joan, considered by some scholars to be the first and only trans pope, apparently did not live a life of celibacy. She would be found out when she went into labor in the third year of her papacy, according to the records of Martinus Polonus. By some accounts, her son would go on become the bBishop of Ostia and have his mother, kept in isolation post-scandal, interred there. In other accounts, she was killed immediately upon being found out. It’s unclear if the story of Pope Joan should be considered a medieval urban myth, but hundreds of chronicles tell the story of the ninth-century church leader.

2. John XII (955-964)
This church leader would model his papacy on the rule of Roman Emperor Elagabolus, a potentially transgender libertine, and would host gay orgies in the papal palace, according to historian Wayne Dynes’s Encyclopedia of Homosexuality. Historians say John also had mistresses, making him the first bisexual pope.

3. Benedict IX (1033-1045; 1047-1048)
Considered by many to be the first “primarily homosexual” pope, Benedict would be accused of turning the Vatican into a “male brothel,” according to researcher Lynne Yamaguchi Fletcher. The debauchery actually led to his being deposed as pope in 1045 after Bishop Benno of Piacenza accused him of “many vile adulteries and murders,” according to historian Ernst Ludwig Dummler, but he quickly returned to power after Benno and other critics were expelled. Indeed, he would be driven from and returned to power multiple times before his excommunication in 1049.

4. Boniface VIII (1294-1303)
King Philip IV of France, an enemy of the pope, would dispatch spies to gather information on Boniface, and based on reports from Roman aristocrats, he would publicly accuse the pope of sodomy, according to Who’s Who in Gay and Lesbian History: From Antiquity to World War II. 

5. John XXII (1316-1334)
While there’s less bountiful evidence than with other popes, John XXII made the list of gay popes included in Noel Garde’s 1964 tome Jonathan to Gide: The Homsexual in History.

6. Paul II (1464-1471)
This pope’s immediate predecessor, Pius II, once suggested that Paul, at the time an archpriest at the Vatican Basilica, be called Mary Pietissima, according to Platina’s Lives. This may have been an insinuation about a predisposition toward fancy clothes and fine things, or it could have been a intimation of the church leader’s homosexuality, the latter of which earned Paul II ink in Arno Karlen’s Sexuality and Homosexuality.

7. Sixtus IV (1471-1484)
The Sistine Chapel was named for this popular pope, and the arts patron employed famous queer artists including Botticelli. But Sixtus, born Francesco della Rovere, also would be known for favoritism, including elevating his male lover (and nephew) Petro Riaro to Cardinal, according to Louis Crompton’s Homosexuality and Civilization. 

8. Alexander VI (1492-1503)
Known to modern audiences for his portrayal by Jeremy Irons in The Borgias, Alexander VI has generally been regarded by history as the most morally bankrupt pope in the church’s history, thanks among other things to the wild orgies over which he would preside. He was believed to have sired at least eight illegitimate children, but the Florentine friar Savonarola also accused the pope of having same-sex affairs. Alexander had Savonarola killed, but upon his own death, the church would deem the pope too scandalous and violent a figure to be buried at St. Peter’s Basilica.

9. Julius II (1503-1513)
Prevailing sexual mores didn’t bind Julius II, who infamously issued a dispensation to Henry VIII to marry the previously wedded Catherine of Aragon. More personally revealing, the bisexual pope was the first known to contract syphilis, and he reportedly fathered children by at least one mistress. In 1511, the church brought charges against the pope of committing lewd sex acts with male prostitutes.

10. Leo X (1513-1521)
Dissatisfaction with Leo’s practice of allowing the faithful to pay for sins to be forgiven contributed to Martin Luther writing his 95 Theses and starting the Protestant movement. The controversial pope also would have to deal with scandal about his sexuality, with an anonymous pamphlet circulated in Rome alleging Leo has taken multiple gay lovers. Historians Francesco Guicciardini and Paolo Giavini both recorded observations supporting the assertion, the latter noting the pope’s banter with chamberlains and young noblemen.

11. Captain General Pier Luigi (1537-1547)
Believed to be the illegitimate son of Pope Paul III, Pier Luigi Farnese was named as Captain General of the Church. In that post, he would keep a regiment of male lovers and use Roman police to keep tabs on men who refused his advances. He also would be plagued by accusations of raping bishops and other clergy in the Vatican. Eventually, he was stabbed to death Caesar-style by a conspiracy of enemies who hanged his body from a window of the plaza at Piacenza.

12. Julius III (1550-1555)
The pontiff before his papacy reportedly fell in love with 15-year-old Innocenzo and maintained a suspicious relationship with him. The boy would become a servant and lover to then-Cardinal Giovanni Maria del Cicchio Monte, who would raise Innocenzo to the level of cardinal after his lover became the pope.

13. Cardinal Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte (1550-1567)
At around age 18, the favorite of Pope Julius III would be named Cardinal Nephew and serve effectively as the papal secretary. But after the death of Julius, he would return to a criminal history. Pope Pius IV had Innocenzo arrested after he killed two men in 1559, and he was banished from Rome. He would be accused in 1567 of raping two women in Brevia and be sent to a monastery, according to historian Miranda Salvador. He was eventually allowed to return to Rome but died in 1577 in disgrace.

14. Cardinal Carlo Carafa (1555-1559)
The nephew of Pope Paul IV, the Italian cardinal likely had a relationship with a young man named Ascanio that would be immortalized in a poem by Joachim du Bellay. Pro-French opponents of the cardinal would allege other same-sex affairs as well that would be reported to the pope, who would eventually exile his relative. In 1567, new Pope Pius V would rehabilitate Carafa and allow him to be entombed by his uncle.

15. Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart (1803-1807)
The Cardinal of York would be recorded in history as the last Stuart pretender to the English throne. Writer Guiseppi Gorani reported that the cardinal showed little discretion about numerous affairs with men. “His palace seemed to me to be filled with young men of a very comely appearance, dressed as abbots,” Gorani wrote. “This led me to suspect that this Royal Eminence could have the taste with which some of his brethren are accused.”

16. Cardinal Francis Joseph Spellman (1939-1967)
The cardinal, who was archbishop of New York at the time of his death, was surrounded for years by rumors of his homosexuality, with biographer John Cooney stating he interviewed at least four individuals with personal knowledge of Spellman’s leanings, according to journalist Michelangelo Signorile. And biographers of notorious FBI director J. Edgar Hoover say he had a file documenting the cardinal’s sex life.

17. John XXIII (1958-1963)
Credited with modernizing Catholic dogma with Vatican II, the ’60s-era pope has frequently been compared to Pope Francis as having a socially progressive outlook for his time. The Gay Sunshine Interviews, Vol. 2 suggested that the more tolerant view of homosexuality decreed by John may have stemmed from his sexual orientation.

18. Paul VI (1963-1978)
The 20th-century pope faced written accusations from professor Franco Bellegradi, a Vatican insider at the start of Paul’s papacy, that rumors of homosexuality circulated while he served as archbishop of Milan. Bellegradi says that Paul, then Giovanni Battista Enrico Antonio Maria Montini, had been caught by police at night in street clothes while in “suspect company,” and more specifically, that he maintained a long relationship with a male actor who colored his hair red and who would later visit the pope’s Vatican apartment freely.

19. Archbishop Rembert Weakland (1977-2002)
The Wisconsin archbishop resigned from the church in 2002 amid allegations he’d used $450,000 in archdiocesan funds to pay a sexual harassment settlement. In 2009, he would come out in a memoir as gay.

20. Archbishop Juan Carlos Maccarone (1996-2005)
The Buenes Aires-born Maccarone became Bbishop of Chascomus in 1996 and then was nominated as bishop of Santiago del Estero in 1999. But the Argentine church leader would become embroiled in scandal in 2005 when a video surfaced of him engaged in sex with another man. The scandal led quickly to the archbishop’s resignation.

21. Cardinal Keith O’Brien (1985-2013)
The archbishop of St. Andrews and Edinburgh was accused in 2013 of having sexual relationships with four younger priests, including a relationship that went on as recently as 2009, six years after he became a cardinal, according to reports in The Scotsman. After a church investigation, O’Brien resigned the duties of cardinal in 2015.

PAT SAYS

That 21 is only the top of the pile of course.

I suppose it just shows you that homosexuality in the priesthood is far from new.

The big difference of course is that we now have a very educated population and a very large and fierce international media.

Plus, of course, there is a massive difference between consulting adults having sex and older men having sex with minors or vulnerable adults.

Mind you, I imagine many popes, cardinals, bishops and priests in history were into minors.

There were certainly enough teenage cardinals about.

208 replies on “21 GAY POPES, CARDINALS AND ASSORTED CATHOLIC LEADERS.”

Evidence for Pope Joan includes –
-At his trial in 1415, Jan Hus argued that the Church does not necessarily need a pope, because, during the pontificate of “Pope Agnes” (as he also called her), it got on quite well. Hus’s opponents at this trial insisted that his argument proved no such thing about the independence of the Church, but they did not dispute that there had been a female pope at all.
-As a consequence, certain traditions stated that popes throughout the medieval period were required to undergo a procedure wherein they sat on a special chair with a hole in the seat. A cardinal would have the task of putting his hand up the hole to check whether the pope had testicles, or doing a visual examination. The cardinal said ‘Testiculos habet et bene pendentes’ in confirmation of the pope having passed the inspection.

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It’s hardly a demolition: it’s a propaganda piece.

Every legend is rooted in some fact or other.

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An even more effective demolition of the demolition is to do what the Roman Church has always done: if the myth is better than the fact always prefer the myth. For instance, If the Galilean is just a wandering Jewish moralist rebelling against Jewish so called laws, make him the Son of the Jewish deity, and for good measure throw in a further deity and declare the resultant Trinity singular. Test this principle on any dogma of the Church and you will find it always works.

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Doesn’t all this prove that homosexual men are ontologically unsuited to be priests? That God rejects both their sexuality and their ‘Christian’ witness? And that Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis were absolutely, and morally, correct to bar gay candidates from admission to seminary?
It proves also, Pat, that you yourself, as a gay man, should never have been ordained.

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I believe that the ordination of every gay man is invalid. It has to be, if one is to accept the bans of two recent popes on admitting gay candidates to seminary.

If these men are ontologically unsuited to priesthood, then it means that God did not call them to be priests. Consequently, there could have been no order conferred on them at ordination.

Every Mass said by a gay ‘priest’ is actually invalid, an absolute sham. This goes also for all the other sacraments at which he officiated.

Catholics need to be certain that their priests are heterosexual, otherwise their confessions, baptisms, weddings, etc are invalid. This is particularly serious regarding confession: if any of them have been absolved of mortal sin by a gay priest, their sin remains.

Fr David Marsden has been vilified on this blog, but he was right: gay men cannot be ordained priests, because God did not call them to be priests.

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Rev Chris Butler talks often about his civil partnership. He will be ordained a priest soon for the diocese of Leeds.

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Anon@ 11:52: Perhaps you could explain more on what you regard as a standard of “proof”, and in what way it differs from an opinion?
Thank you.
MMM

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Homosexuality is innately and always inclined to grave moral evil; that is my standard of proof.
There are no homosexual acts which are not inherently evil. Ergo, God will not ‘vocate’ such men to be priests.

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9:13

Two questions:

Are priests who are pedophiles ontologically suited to priesthood?
Please tell us how can we know or be certain a priest is heterosexual?

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A@10:03: Your comment sir or madam. is an unsubstantiated claim. It is made as a statement of fact, and with no supporting evidence. As such, it seems but an opinion, which of course you are entitled to. And since you have not distinguished in what way your concept of proof differs from an opinion, I am inclined to think you are not aware of any difference.
MMM

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12.15, your cynicism is noted, wryly.

Yes, I did respond to the request for substantiation ; it is not MY fault it did not appear.

I suggest you take up the matter with the blog moderator, whoever he or she might be, because I suspect that if I attempted to repost that comment, it would again not appear.

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@ 12.27, we wouldn’t, and this is why we didn’t get them. In fact, I did not describe the act in any shape or form; I merely mentioned it. If you publish the comment, readers will see this for themselves.
I referred to the inevitable physical trauma of the act as substantiation. If you publish the comment, readers will see this for themselves, too.

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Perverts and sadist rectors are unsuitable for admission to holy orders; gays, straights and celibates are not usually the problem.
The problem is with abuse, by perverts, of children and vulnerable adults. Then, the hierarchy attempting to cover up the abuse which has taken place, and at all costs.
This is the problem.

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The John Jay Report demonstrates that the majority of priest/religious offenders (80%) were homosexual, and that their victims were all minors.
This suggests two things:
1. that homosexuals have stronger sexual urges than heterosexuals and are more difficult to control;
2. that those to whom homosexuals are attracted may be more likely to be underage.
This makes homosexuals less likely to have the capacity to act in imitation of Christ.
These

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The mantilla brigade are out in force today.
But you need to be very careful with this invalidity business. The church has always erred on the side of validity when these things have come up. Fr Hunwick has some interesting posts about this if you want to find out the actual Catholic position.

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8.12, the ‘actual Catholic position’?
Polemics in the Church historically has been counter-productive, and the slow learners in it remain slow to learn the essential lessons.
No, it is not the ‘Catholic position’, actual or otherwise; it is A position. And it is largely self-serving.
It is why the Church remains mired in its own canonical waste.

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Pat’s blog risks becoming a magnet for the worst type of insanely homophobic US culture warriors. Pity that today’s offender did not give himself a pseudonym for convenient identification.

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The insane homophobe says “there are no homosexual acts that are not inherently evil.” Hmm, “you must remember this, a kiss is but a kiss.” Of course, as the censored part of his correspondence apparently betrays, he is obsessed with anal sex, as seems to the norm with these types.

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Paolo Giavini was also a bishop. He wrote of Pope Leo X’s ‘flirting’ with his male chamberlains.
Leo was nothing if not open about his deviant poovery, such was his colossal arrogance as il papa. It was said, reliably, that he hosted lavish parties (which helped bankrupt the Vatican treasury incidentally, hence those seminally scandalous indulgences that ignited Martin Luther’s moral sensibilities) at some of which he entertained le beau monde of the time by having huge cakes brought into the gatherings from which would leap…Can you guess?
Little, naked boys.
What else at the Vatican?

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11:22

So a person receiving a sacrament from a priest is not going to be certain if the priest is gay.

But your notion of the God of love is going to punish the person who has mortal sin following an invalid confession if for example hit by a bus outside the Church?

What about Priests who father children? Were they ontologically suited?

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11.35, of course such priests are ontologically suitable: they are heterosexual, albeit sinners.

Being inclined to sin does not disbar one from priesthood; being homosexual does.

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11:22

All Popes, therefore, who were gay, were invalid Popes, so Humanae Vitae is to be shelved as Church teaching?

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11.48, a non-sequitur.

I said God did not ‘vocate’ gay men to the priesthood; I did not say that he never spoke through them.

There is no conclusive proof that any of these popes were gay. But if they were, their ‘ordinations’ were invalid, as well as the ‘ordinations’ of those they officiated at themselves.

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Indeed @ 11:35: Their “God of love” is absolutely preoccupied, in His Almighty Wisdom and All Seeing Eye, to “catch out” those ungrateful human species who don’t love Him enough, so that when they fail to navigate jumping through the hoops in proving this, He, in His Supreme Kindness, can send them all down to hell.
AS Freddie Mercury used say, “And another one bites the dust!”
I’m told He has also delegated responsibility for keeping the millions of other planets universes etc properly on course so He can concentrate on us down here on mothership Earth. For He has a vested interest in keeping us straight seeing as He once visited us, but didn’t make a very good job of it.
MMM

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11:22

Is God going to punish a person who remains in mortal sin following an invalid confession to a priest who is gay, if for example, the person is hit by a bus outside the Church?

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11:22
So the vast majority of priests living and working in the Vatican are invalid according to you.

Time to shut shop so.

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The Donatist controversy addressed the validity of sacraments administered by unworthy ministers. It raged for a long time, involving Emperors and Popes and Councils and inspiring St Augustine to write countless books and letters. The Church decided powerfully and unanimously that the Donatists were wrong. Few heresies bit the dust more inglorioiusly. Yet Donatism is alive and well today!

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12.17, I did not describe in any detail whatever the act of anal intercourse, much less offer it as substantiation. I mentioned the act and offered the inevitable (and medically well documented) PHYSICAL TRAUMA of it as substantiation.

You have completely misrepresented my post.

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9.13 Hi perhaps the question should be is priesthood ontological in its current form ontologically suited to humans in its current form. P S what’s the point of being heterosexual if the willy is in publicly proclaimed quarantine

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I doubt if two sensible adults having intercourse, heterosexual or gay and, who are mindful of each others bodies, would cause physical trauma; that just sounds hyperbole to me.
Yes, of course there may be signs of lovemaking having taken place, but is this not simply biology either way? No pun intended.
And anyway, there’s nothing wrong with my plumbing; quite the opposite.

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If only your “Church of England” patron saint, Henry VIII had followed that advice, Mr Page.

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1.45, sexually transmitted infections are biology, too: microbiology. And they originate in promiscuous sex.

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Also very funny are the people who make out that Sean Page’s orders are invalid because he is an Anglican. Even allowing for invalidity of Anglican orders that isn’t where he got his and I think you’ll find he wasn’t re-ordained.
You genuinely don’t understand the subject at all!

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It is high time, given the weight of homosexual clergy in the Catholic Church, that Pope Francis issue a canonical decree that the ordination of every gay man be declared null and void, otherwise his endorsing Pope Benedict’s ban on admitting such men to seminary makes absolutely no sense.
Homosexual men in the priesthood are at the heart of sexual deviancy and perversion in the Church. They must be expelled.

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Can I just say, what a load of rubbish! I’ve come across priests who are Gay and are amongst the best priests we’ve got. Priests who are gay, yet have remained celibate, who practice what they preach, priests who show love, compassion, and a caring attitude that a Shepard needs.

You can’t blame gay people for problems within the church. I can assure you they are NOT the problem. You are just another person with staunch views yet have absolutely no idea of the problems within the church. Please keep your uneducated, delusional, bigoted posts to yourself.

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You can say whatever you prefer, and as vehemently as you wish, but it will not alter the truth, nor the sodid history, of gay priests in the Catholic Church, and the obvious remedy: an outright and absolute ban on ordaining these men, regardless of such personal qualities as kindness.
If the Papal ban on ordaining these men is divinely inspired (and the solacious history of gay priests in the Church suggests it must be), then they were never ‘vocated’ by God to be priests.
Any ordination of a gay man is absolutely and irrevocably null and void.

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9.16: I agree with you. That bigoted, rubbish bin comment at 12.49 is undoubtedly frim a drink fuelled mind. It is so full of irrational hatred, is homophobic and prejudiced that this guy would have all gay people gallowed. The ignorance of understanding is pathetic, delusional and his words are hate inciting. If he is a priest, utter shame on his arrogance and hard heartednesd. If a non cleric, an even more disgusting intolerance and bigotry. Take your head from between your legs.

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He can’t be wrong, nor can Pope Francis, because catechetical teaching on homosexuality as objectively disordered would have to be rewritten. That will never happen.

God would not call such men to priesthood, given their nature.

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@ 11.01, no need to describe what you already have experienced and, therefore, already know.
Homosexuals may not necessarily be paedophiles anymore than heterosexuals, but I would no more ordain a homosexual than I would a paedophile, because the sexual desire of both is disordered.
Heterosexual sexual desire is not disordered. Heterosexuals, therefore, can more easily act in imitation of Christ.
The John Jay Report confirms that homosexual desire is stronger than its counterpart: that it is more difficult to resist. It would be, since it is a natural disorder, inclining those with it to lust and promiscuity. In a word, to evil.

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Ironically Pope Ratzinger was more versed in the Donatist controversy than any pope, having done a doctoral thesis on it. He got a ridiculous document issued about banning deep-seated homosexual tendencies from seminaries, but he never, ever suggested such such tendencies rendered ordination invalid, because he knew that to do so would make him a heretic!

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There may be a big difference between consenting immoral adults who profess to be signs of the Kingdom with their sanctified celibacy and destructive, dysfunctional deviants. This is all very distorted. One can only imagine the homes these folk came out of.
Then…we get this…..
A message from the American Catholic Council:
After decades of research and communication with some in the hierarchy of our Church and trusted People of God, it’s become obvious that as we are “victims” of our global culture and context swirling to remake itself and us. In many cases, it is succeeding—on both fronts. We ask the burning question: Where is our faith in such times? Do we choose to remain impotent as the culture re-forms us or do we choose the converse?
Clearly, we have chosen the latter. We are engaging in an experiment to test the hypothesis that Christians are ready now, willing now, and able now to live the common values of our faith intentionally with the same courage Jesus had”

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Fascinating as Mr Spock might say! Is celibacy being used as some sort of countermeasure or whip so that these guys can seek forgiveness preferably near end of life. Where is Freud when you need him

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Yes, the vast majority of gay men are predatory by nature, because they cannot procreate.
Predatory and promiscuous.

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Again, what a load of rubbish! You know I used to believe that. It wasn’t until I met a lesbian couple who still attend mass and take their child every Sunday. It made me research it more to understand LGBT people.
I attended a course in London to work with LGBT adults and young people. It changed my views completely. They are just like YOU and I. Most Gay men I’ve met are completely normal and just want to live a normal life.
Your comment is just silly, and to be honest I feel sorry for you. If that’s how you think I will pray for you and hope that your views be changed by the help of God.

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Well you have an experience and you attend tuition on a particular view, a different experience is not silly. This blog and even this particular post points out that your one experience isn’t common. Are you praying that people change their point of view for some reason? Perhaps there is a need for some honest reflection on gay men and their behaviour generally, the manufacture myth that gay men are the same as everyone else is difficult to believe, gay men show transparent favouritism, have no interest in monogamy or marriage, would support lowering the age of consent and relaxing laws on pornography. Their whole world view is based on sex and the object of their desire is a masculine, straight man they do not desire camp, fat queens even if they are themselves. They say they have no choice about their sexuality but believe that a straight man can be turned though if that were true afterwards the attraction would quickly fade. At the moment homosexuality is about to disappear it’s reached its peak, the next generation are growing up to see being gay as part of a whole range of sexualities and genders which are mainly based on apeing women who are course the barrier to getting a straight man. There is also a profound and deliberate ignorance of the effects of STIs. What good comes from gay men? The odd one who’s character isn’t as fractured as another’s could trace the good back to their heterosexual upbringing not the gay scene

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Again, liberal use of the word ‘rubbish’, proving that your ability to analyse is more affective than rational.

A gay man, disillusioned with the ‘scene’, told that the only thing gay men were interested in was sex. And he’s right. Consider all those apps, like Grindr’ it’s not just about sex; it’s about promiscuous sex.

If I’m correct, Pat Buckley was hardly a model of sexual abstinence when he came to terms with his homosexuality.

You are kidding yourself about the nature of gay men, but it’s your choice.

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Why is sexual abstinence such a virtue? I know of many gay men who are deeply interested in love, friendship, companionship, emotional intimacy etc. Many gay partnerships are like straight ones – the good ones survive on love when the sex goes.

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Fr AC: You make many good points I agree with.
Could I simply ask that you, and many other, in your response please identify,(by pseudonym, the time of comment, or in some other way), the individual or comment you are responding to. Otherwise we are left guessing!
And, as I have asked here previously several times, could individuals adopt some pseudonym to assist responses and discussions. By all means those who mindlessly just wish to spout off “shooting from the hip” will continue to do so.
But perhaps those interested in an exchange of views may wish to consider this request.
MMM

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To that list we can add:
Popes Benedict XVI, Pius XII.
Cardinals McCarrick, Weurl, Coccopalmerio, Daaneels, Tobin, Cupich, Hume, Connell, CMOC, Sodano, Re, Burke, Daly.
Archbishops Worlock, McQuaid.
Mgr Ledwith.
90% of seminarians nowadays.
Sr Lavinia Byrne. Most Mercy nuns under 70.

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Add to that 75% of Anglo-Catholic clergy, 95% of Anglo-Catholic male laity, and among the general Anglican clergy, 50% of the priestesses.

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9.03: Add to this list the thousands of “hethero” men who are fully gay but trapped in a marriage…add to this the many gay men in all kinds of professions…gay is everywhere…

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Most gay people through history and today are married….in mixed marriages……the percentages that are used are so outdated generated by the Kinsey scale…..twill be another century or two before the truth is told and if Sharia law should succeed probably another 700 years.

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Paul III looks like a someone you wouldn’t want to meet if you went down to the woods today. But Cardinal Innocenzo on the other hand … tasty 😋
Which is your fave Patsy darling? Sixtus IV? 😮

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Desmond Connell said that if he was elected pope, he would like the name Sixtus Vl……not joking !!!! ( He was a scholar…..Connell I mean).

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Christopher Hitchens was an author, critic, polemicist and devastating demolisher of all things religious. I particularly admire his charmingly courteous employment of logic and vast knowledge in debating with deists. Many of these are easily available on YouTube, and well worth watching. I particularly like where he debates with his deist brother, a Daily Mail journalist.
If I wasn’t already a Humanist when I discovered him, I’d have been persuaded to join him.
Had I been still a “believer”, I would have had my eyes opened as to just how crazy are the assertions of religious belief.
MMM

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A lot of Christopher Hitchens’ left-wing and athiests fans are angered when they learn that he was pro-life. At least he had the courage to critique Islam, and not just Christianity, the usual soft target of athiests, the left and the woke.

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@10:56: Yes I’m aware of a distinction, which I understand to be, that deists have a belief in a Supreme Being without any reliance on “Revelation”. They believe that there is sufficient proof from observation of the natural world alone. Theists, on the other hand have belief in the existence of a Supreme Being through both observation of the natural world, the use of logic, and Revelation. They are usually monotheistic in belief, like Christians.
You make a good point, and I admit I sometimes use the terms interchangeably.
MMM

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I know a Jesuit some years ago who listened to his company around a very VIP dinner table in Dublin 4 ( it was Jerusalem 4 that crucified Jesus ( John Quinlan RIP…a really good man but like St. Jerome …..disappointed and irritable….he was entitled to be) ) who made much the same comment as 9.01am……the table was totally silent when he quipped; its as well priests are forbidden to repeat what they have heard in the confessional for decades. We all inhabit the same mire….a truth of living…..and the beauty of being human.

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9:07am
Not at all Polly I don’t believe the half of it. Its all conjecture and gossip from lowlifes like you who will slander anyone they hate.While we had all heard about Montini there is still no proof, and now they are saying the same despicable things about Roncalli because he liked dressing up as they put it. All utter nonsense directed at the dead who can’t sue for libel so no I’m not having a fit I am quite calm sorry to disappoint you.

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12:21 pm

Bella, I’m glad you are remaining calm considering the Church has had so many gay Popes.
What proof do you require oh ye of little faith? (Just,wonder-in, like)

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The thing starts to turn to farce when you think of Mgr Ricca, now custodian of the Casa Santa Marta and a big cheese in Vatican finances and of whom Francis said “who am I to judge?”
Such an exotic, Ricca is, with guns, lovers in the Uruguay nunciature, grumble mags in the diplomatic bag and being rescued from a jammed lift by firemen.
https://www.advocate.com/politics/religion/2013/07/22/pope-francis-pick-head-vatican-bank-mired-gay-rumors

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11:40pm

I need absolute proof and their is none, it is only the depraved ramblings of oul GOSSIPS like you and that is not Proof! O ye of little faith. I still have faith, and The Judgement Seat of Our Lord shall manifest it. (Just sayin’, like)

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12:17 pm
Absolute proof, as in a word from God? Pennies still not dropping ,Bella. ( Just askin,like) 😇

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Lateral thinking in terms of news stories today : Mauritius is safer than the six counties of the North of the Island of Ireland ( UK)…..Liverpool F.C. are free to commercially partnership wherever they choose….

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Bill, I saw two camp clergy of your former diocese indulging in a wee tête-à-tête in Synge & Byrne’s coffee shop in Moygashel today. You probably shared their company in the past I’m sure. Would you not like to be able to join them?

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Are there two camp clergymen in Armagh? I thought the local ordinary was the only one 😉

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Bishop Pat….. I trust your comment was made tongue in cheek!! The poor ordinary in Armagh is only one of many in his diocese who tend to the camp side of things!!

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No doubt the Reverend Fathers who were observed supping coffee today are avid observers of this blog, so it’s good for them to know Bishop Pat has his spies eveyehere😂

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Formosis……Julius ll wanted to take this name on ascending the throne……the papal one ! They advised against it…..a beautiful name…..pun intended.

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10:30pm
What is the matter with you? are you that far gone altogether, unlike yourself I have never been on the bottle, but you’ve been on the gargle for years and look what it’s done to you you’ve lost your memory God help ya.

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The homophobic commentators (both of them) are out in force. Pat’s blog today is proof of the veracity of the aphorism that education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing one’s equanimity.

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Losing one’s equanimity is akin to coming of age, dear. Get with the times, sweetie.
And l hardly doubt your coming on here has nothing to do with having a nose about to see what is going on in the various seas, so either give up the pretence and pop the kettle on and get the biccies out, or don’t come on here, luvvy lol 🐈🍸🍾 🙀

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11:47
1. A double negative is always a joy to encounter, especially when the source isn’t aware of using it.

2. Simple homonym mistakes are amusing especially when the author doesn’t realise her/his error.

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I forgot, it is not allowed to criticise the gays, even though they spend their entire lives bitching, when they can come off Grindr for a minute.

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Are not us gays the greatest of the critiques?
Those curtains do not match those cushions; those trousers look lovely with that shirt. That bitch soo needs stopping in her tracks, and putting in her place. . .

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8:40 am -You will have to do better than that to prove there as not a woman Pope -A Catholic Agency is hardly going to tell us there was a woman Pope. Why would the Holy Mother Church admit such a thing? Its record on honesty and openness does not fill people who engage the brain with reality much confidence in anything this broken institution would say. Pope Joan pray to God for us!

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Magna at 11.17 supporting herself at 12.09. When she was outed she lost most of her mystique and most of her standing, such as it was.

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12.25, you do make me laugh, you do.
Ever hear, in connection with the Church, the expression ‘cover up’? 🤔

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4:59
The cover up is so well done you have no idea which century to postulate.
There’s a better and more likely explanation: if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and looks likes a duck, the chances are it is a cover up. Hahaha

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Blog favourite, Dr. Mary McAlesse, is on Rte News Now, in studio with Bryan Dobson re John Hume, Rip. Funeral broadcast on Rte.

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11:49am
Yes Fr. Colhoun celebrates a very dignified and lovely Low Mass in St. Columba’s you should go over to Derry to hear it Patsy. I’m sure it gave great consolation to John Hume RIP and his wife.

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Absolutely agree Pat. I “glanced” at it in course of checking the news. Seeing the priest, whoever he was, droning on in monotone with arms outstretched, well frankly it has me laughing in disbelief.
MMM

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wouldn’t mind about hand movements once he has integrity and not HIV from sucking mens mickies

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Marshall’s pursed lips profile photo gives me the creeps. He’s deleted that insensitive, poorly-judged tweet now.

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His profile says he is a ‘producer’. What does he produce? Gay porn? Maynooth scandals? Seminarian destruction? He is not named as a producer on the BBC NI website.

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5:49

I miss the days of gannon, byrne, mcelroy et al. Those were the days my friend 😢

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Did you look at the people he is following? Mostly men with 🏳️‍🌈 in their profiles 😨

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6:25, indeed! mostly young gay lads with the rainbow flag in their bio. What information would they be tweeting that Brendan would want to know or need to know.

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Hi Pat, you’ve got a right closet bitch on the Blog today. Anyone so anti-gay must have a deep seated yet very repressed liking for the “rod of comfort”. Poor cow’s probably never got hold of one before. Even his own!

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So your criticism proves the point, you use two derogatory references used for women to describe a man with the implication that a woman is less than a man and a supposed gay man is even less than that, also it’s the physical act of sex you comment on so being gay isn’t anything but that, it’s not a relationship ,companionship or expression of love.

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Exactly right @ 3:58. The gay sexual experience consists of a focus on a detached body, and one part of it, hence the promiscous sex with a legion of strangers.
Drag (which in the future will be judged to be as abhorrent as blackface now is, rightly) is rooted in deep gay hatred and distaste for women, with whom gay men think they are in competition with for straight men.
Most gay men, when they were growing up, were teased and bullied for not being masculine enough, so women remind them of those characteristics, plus they remind gay men of their overly-dominant mothers and weak fathers.

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Some people on this blog, including yourself Bishop Pat, need to take a long hard look at yourselves. Watching the very moving funeral mass for John Hume today I was very impressed by Fr Paul Farren’s homily and by how he linked John’s life with the gospel of the Good Samaritan. It was very touching and I’m sure it was much appreciated by the family. You yourself Pat in the past having been calling for more meaningful homilies yet when you get one the only fault you can find with Fr Darren is how he used his hands and the tone of his voice. Seriously!!!!!!! Maybe it doesn’t suit some people on this blog when they realise that there are still some priests out there who are genuine and sincere in their vocation despite all the damage being done by the less genuine in the Catholic Church. When you have all stood in front of the mirror and had that long hard look at yourselves go back to what you are good at. Hide behind your curtains spying on your neighbours giving yourselves something to talk about with the other curtain twitchers on here.

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6:40

Come down from your high horse!. The damage being done in the Catholic Church is damage mainly by Priests, Bishops and Popes. Bishop Buckley made no remark about Fr. Farrens voice. When you look in the mirror take note of who is harming the Church.
Don’t forget the harm done to numerous lives of those abused.

Put responsibility for damage to the Church where it belongs.

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One of your blog readers remarked on the tone of Fr Farren’s voice while you expressed your thoughts on his hand features. It came across as very petty. Obviously you can’t find any other way to get at him. Your attitude and those of some of your blog readers towards Fr Farren is bordering on the pathetic.

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Genuine, yeah?! Then why has not one cleric of the whole of the Northern province of Liverpool made a report to the Police or CSAS? ? BOLOCKS! You are ALL compromised. We have your number.
Wait, don’t tell us… They had no idea; they knew nothing… ….🤫…. Same old story, time and time again 🙄 … Only, this story has a fancy twist! Or so it would seem…
– But you have to hand it to them…!
They must have genuinely thought Ajax toilet cleaner was going use her Interdepartmentals to keep it under wraps?
That is the true story here…. We have no doubt. Well, she well and truly got her eyes wiped, didn’t she… Including those of her Interdepartmentals. For sure.
– Nobody is immune from the effects of abuse… Especially those who had their hands in the nasty little cover up; their names are in the book of life, says the Lord; and the Lord does not mince His words. I know.
– Now, it looks as though somebody is going to have to take the wrap? What an utter hatchet job; a bloody mess if you ask me!
Handy it is all coming to the surface now, very handy indeed.

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6:37 pm

There was no mention of Fr. Farrens voice.
You are pathetic to have to create an issue where there is none. How sad.
This is really about ‘getting at’ Pat Buckley. A pathetic silly attempt to create trouble.

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Go and look at MournemanMichael’s comment at 12.45 I think the word monotone should give it away. And my comments are not as you suggest an attempt to “get at” Bishop Pat I just thought it was an opportunity to say something positive about somebody for a change.

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My dear fella@8:43: I obviously cause you some anxiety since you sieze every opportunity to have a dig at me, using the “mourneful” attempted aphorism. Sad!
I heard it said on Match of the Day, that retired football players are very well placed to comment on disputed foul tackles, as they understand the reality of what happens on the pitch.
Perhaps this also applies to ex-catholics, especially ex clerics. Perhaps they are also well placed to comment on the foulness of an institution happily left behind. They know how it fouls,………from the inside.
I welcome your comments, knowing I’ve got you thinking.
MMM

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After reading the comments today I have unexpectedly found myself taking a position that no man with the slightest suspicion of homosexuality should be ordained ever again.
That would take care of the church very quickly indeed 😁

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The standard of vesture and vestments on display today left a lot to be desired. Fr Farren’s Presbyterian-grey clerical shirt was visible (no amices in the sacristy?) and Archbishop Martin and Bishop McKeown wore surplices instead of the rochets that prelates should wear. Bishop McKeown’s clerical shirt was visible under his mozzeta, plus his fascia was off-centre and needed to be ironed.

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8.24
That’s because you posted most of them. You haven’t persuaded anyone of the rightness of your cause – only of your prejudice.

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“After reading the comments today I have unexpectedly found myself taking a position that no man with the slightest suspicion of homosexuality should be ordained ever again.” If you really came to this idea today, you should give it more mature reflection before making it public, under pain of outing yourself as an impetuous bigot. But I doubt if you really thought up your brilliant idea just now. I suspect it reflects “a deep-seated tendency”.

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Keep repeating it is a ” myth ” despite all the evidence. Keep saying it long enough
and you may even believe it yourself!

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Jesus, @9.58pm that brings back memories from Thurles days. Glad i escaped that shit. Some old guy would cup your balls for a bit too long. It always had to be some auld fella Doc and you couldn’t get a hard on

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9.58, proof, then, that the so-called ‘myth’ of Pope Joan is grounded in the historically concrete.

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